Razzer wrote:Buff classes have always stronger buffs than potions - have you even looked at the values?
Even the +75 s/c charge is not that strong in comparison with specbuff linies which always have the 25% buffbonus on the delve value.

If you spec Buffbot spec yes, otherwise in common specs usually charges have the same value, or in some cases even better.
It depends also from the realm you play, for example Alb have stronger specs than the other two realms... are we going to balance even this now like the S/C charge?

Just wondering ^^

EDIT:

Juri wrote:I am SO GLAD the staff doesn't listen to people in general... SO GLAD.

Corrected

Caemma wrote:Corrected

Not gonna debate on that. Whether this is true or not, I still believe some people who replied in this topic have absolutely no knowledge of DAoC nor common sense, and are just focusing on their selfish needs.

Can I get someone to explain why we should have ANY buff pots or charge items in the game? I mean if we took them ALL out then EVERYONE is on equal footing right? There is no downside?

Now I know Baman brings up soloer's and I can see that one point but seriously that's only a small point. The game should not cater to soloers it should simply try to have balance.

I am not talking about casuals or more or less playing in RvR...just straight up remove ALL buff pots and charge items in the game. Completely. I know Trishan said that Mid had a charge item because the other 2 realms got one but I am talking about total removal.

Explain to me how this would be bad?

Cons - soloers with no self buffs are at a disadvantage.

Pros - Everyone is equal and having tons of money or alchemist friends won't matter in this regard.
Less time we need to farm PvE to make money for said gear
Groups will look even more for buff class

Those are just a quick thing but without being abusive or saying it is not livelike (we already established they are chaning some things to be non classic) what would TRULY be the downside to not having buff pots and charge items?

Same downside no bbs allready have: it changes the ballance

Foneb wrote:Same downside no bbs allready have: it changes the ballance

How? It only changes in regards that everyone is now equal.

No buffbots? Great. They were still allowed in classic but with reduced range. Didn't matter it still happened all the time.

On Uth we have a chance to equal it all out. No buffbots or pots or charges. None. Zero.

It simply means everyone is on equal ground when we step into RvR except RR's of course.

Again I am not arguing I am truly wondering what the argument could be FOR buff pots/charges?

Foneb wrote:Same downside no bbs allready have: it changes the ballance

Only for the small amount of players, who have had a buffbot back in the days of 1.65 and have soloed the unbuffed casuals in epic in glorious and heroic nicefights. I am sure it was an epic battle, at least as long as you were the guy with the buffbot.^^

Buff pots and charges just adds tedium.

I don't understand how someone can be a "pro" for taking the time to farm, make, stock up and drink pots every 2-10 minutes. It has nothing to do with actual game play - only how much time you want to sink into preparing for game play. It's a requirement to do this because of how advantageous buffs are and in the end "casuals" are going to move on.

Don't get me wrong, the devs have done a fantastic job on this server - it's stable and works beautifully, real commitment - but they have an opportunity to learn from past mistakes and create something amazing. DAoC has really stood the test of time but with a few tweaks I think Uthgard can make this game better than ever before.

I understand this is a slippery slope making things easier and especially changing the way things have been done for years - but wouldn't hybrids be more viable with self buffs? Would hunters be a little less painful? I'm by no means a pro but I've played this game for 14 years and always thought about how nice it would be to have purity within classes; no buff bots, no buff pots just players supplying their own buffs to self and others.

Jarqo wrote:

Austerim wrote:

relvinian wrote:How were the pots and buff items back at 1.65 patch level?

If they are going to say no to positive game changes in order to maintain a "pure" classic 1.65 server then however ****** was then it needs to be that way now.

No housing. No jack ******. What else? Map command. Horses. Merchants. What else. Let's be pure.

Rofl this gif xD

I guess you are calling the devs here fascists? I wouldn't go that far. You are free to say anything you want here-- they just ignore it.

Since of course the Dude said, Ow! ****** Fascist!

Or are you being the fascist, since I'm disagreeing with you on a discussion forum and you are telling me to get out of Malibu?

Well either way, I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

Quik wrote:Can I get someone to explain why we should have ANY buff pots or charge items in the game?

Well, pretty simple answer: it add a layer to the rvr.
Its something that increase the needed efforts to get better results, and to give a purpose to who like to min-max his game experience.

You could say the same for RAs, why would we have to use RAs? Why some realms have OP RA (like sos, am, aotg) and others 2 not? Why not remove all RAs and play the game without all those fancy abilities that we "need" to take in order to success vs other groups?

I know its pretty drastic, but its a quite similar parallelism.
The only thing that my common sense suggest, is that Potions and Charges should always be less stronger than actual average buffs.. but you know Livelike is Livelike, unless GMs decide some other ways (which i doubt).

Caemma wrote:

Quik wrote:Can I get someone to explain why we should have ANY buff pots or charge items in the game?

Well, pretty simple answer: it add a layer to the rvr.
Its something that increase the needed efforts to get better results, and to give a purpose to who like to min-max his game experience.

You could say the same for RAs, why would we have to use RAs? Why some realms have OP RA (like sos, am, aotg) and others 2 not? Why not remove all RAs and play the game without all those fancy abilities that we "need" to take in order to success vs other groups?

I know its pretty drastic, but its a quite similar parallelism.
The only thing that my common sense suggest, is that Potions and Charges should always be less stronger than actual average buffs.. but you know Livelike is Livelike, unless GMs decide some other ways (which i doubt).

I see where you're coming from, but there's a significant difference in leveling to improve and grinding to maintain. Pots might have been an edge a decade ago, now they're simply a requirement.

There really is a thin line between buffs bots and buff pots

Warcast wrote:Significant difference in leveling to improve and grinding to maintain. Pots might have been an edge a decade ago, now they're simply a requirement.

There really is a thin line between buffs bots and buff pots

Ah, dont forget the goldsink service.. those things will make you spend money over time, to avoid people to get richer and richer and increase auctionhouse prices to stars for new commers!

Warcast wrote:Significant difference in leveling to improve and grinding to maintain. Pots might have been an edge a decade ago, now they're simply a requirement.

There really is a thin line between buffs bots and buff pots

That's my issue with them...you HAVE to have them to be viable in RvR as they add a huge boost.

I just don't get how removing them completely would not benefit everyone. Yes it would make it more difficult and I am all for that. I just want balance and having them creates a big chance for an imbalance in RvR play whereas removing eliminates that imbalance.

@Caemma - I understand it is for min-maxers for sure. But the comparison is not really the same as far as RA's. Those are a gift for leveling your RR and gives you a reason. Buff Pots and Charges are not. Simply eliminating them just gets it to a more equal footing for everyone. RA's should be the same across all the realms but who knows.

You do not NEED pots if no one else has them...but on the opposite end of the spectrum you DO need them if even ONE person is using them...that is NOT balance.

Caemma wrote:

Warcast wrote:Significant difference in leveling to improve and grinding to maintain. Pots might have been an edge a decade ago, now they're simply a requirement.

There really is a thin line between buffs bots and buff pots

Ah, dont forget the goldsink service.. those things will make you spend money over time, to avoid people to get richer and richer and increase auctionhouse prices to stars for new commers!

I totally agree that pots in general are great for the game economy but there's still power/health/endo

I'm pro buff pot because alchemy was in the game since 1.54.
The values are comparable with level 15-20 basebuffs and level 10 spec buffs.
This is nothing compared to what a level 50 buffer can offer even with low buffspec.

Quik wrote:RA's should be the same across all the realms but who knows.

You do not NEED pots if no one else has them...but on the opposite end of the spectrum you DO need them if even ONE person is using them...that is NOT balance.

Dont get me wrong, i dont care if there will be or not in Uth 2.0, i'll just do the best i can do to make my toon better (its part of the game after all).
But i think you are mixxing up the meanings.. if you can have access to the same opportunity of having those potions/charges, why the fact that you don't want to craft them should become a balance problem? It's not about balance, its about something else then ^^

@UniqueRAs: Well, its not a case that during later patchs they decided to split strong RAs across the 3 realms, and add more layers to them to increase the possible "specs"/"setups" for RAs (and reduce the cooldown durations to actually make them a solid part of RvR strategies instead of incredibly situationals uses).
For how much i like classic daoc, i liked more New RAs, and i think that were more balanced/fun/useful/strategic/etc. than the older one.