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Outphaze
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Postby Outphaze » Apr 10, 2016 19:55

Jerrian wrote:I doubt there will be any custom class change,- if you give the paladin determination, some other classes might want changes too for example the wardens and when they get it, the next ones will complain and say there must be a custom solution for them too and so on. Even if you ´re right about Albion,- Staff can ´t do you a favour in this case.

The only thing might be considering is realm-bonus implementation when some time past by and Albion is really strong underpopulated. Nevertheless, I ´m pretty sure there might be some albion rvr groups with excellent kiting skills that will be a hard opponent for mid and hib groups and go their way. It ´s just a pitty if Albion doesn ´t don ´t has the numbers for zerg and raids :-/ .

We will see, it ´s too early to find solutions for problems that aren ´t there yet. I hope someday in the future we might get back new RAs when even the extremest classic oldschool fanatics get rid of old RAs. Might take some time though.

Genesis was actually a good thing for Uthgard - it gave them the opportunity to see the problems in creating a Old RA server ahead of time (particularly balance issues). This gives Uthgard the chance to create an even better, more balanced server. Unfortunately, they're squandering this opportunity by sticking to the strict 1.65 patch level changes - Uthgard's fate will ultimately be the same as Genesis's.

It's sad that people don't understand custom servers are the only way to go now. Small custom changes that aid in balance and convenience (e.g. group pom, group da, 9-charge pots) actually do make a difference in the satisfaction of the players. All of these little things actually do make a difference in the long term survivability of these servers. No one wants to play a game that's too tedious.
Last edited by Outphaze on Apr 10, 2016 20:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Outphaze
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Postby Outphaze » Apr 10, 2016 19:58

[R]Bloodwyne wrote:Ppl did that on Uthgard 1.0 and will do it on Uthgard 2.0. No 8vs8 group will run without endu pots.

No doubt some people will do it - there's always a few people that will, especially at the beginning when the server is brand new and exciting. The problem is, it's tedious, boring and no fun to craft 1 charge pots for months on end just to RVR. There's no good reason NOT to increase the pot charge/duration. As you said, people will do it anyway so it's not a balance issue, it's one of convenience.

Alb will be more affected by this change than the other 2 realms, hence the reason we'll see a larger effect on alb.
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Aliasss
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Postby Aliasss » Apr 10, 2016 19:59

Nezix wrote:Um, theurgist have no aoe in earth.
That's from 1.9:

I could not know this because I have only recently tried the theurgist

[R]Bloodwyne
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Postby [R]Bloodwyne » Apr 10, 2016 20:07

Outphaze wrote:
[R]Bloodwyne wrote:Ppl did that on Uthgard 1.0 and will do it on Uthgard 2.0. No 8vs8 group will run without endu pots.

No doubt some people will do it - there's always a few people that will, especially at the beginning when the server is brand new and exciting. The problem is, it's tedious, boring and no fun to craft 1 charge pots for months on end just to RVR. There's no good reason NOT to increase the pot charge/duration. As you said, people will do it anyway so it's not a balance issue, it's one of convenience.


Your absolutely right. This has been going on for years tho. Lets all just hope to see 2000+ players on Uthgard2.0 and several (needed) custom changes that wont come wont have such a big impact anymore as everyone will be able to find his or her "niche".
Last edited by [R]Bloodwyne on Apr 10, 2016 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Trishin
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Postby Trishin » Apr 10, 2016 20:08

Outphaze wrote:
[R]Bloodwyne wrote:Ppl did that on Uthgard 1.0 and will do it on Uthgard 2.0. No 8vs8 group will run without endu pots.

No doubt some people will do it - there's always a few people that will, especially at the beginning when the server is brand new and exciting. The problem is, it's tedious, boring and no fun to craft 1 charge pots for months on end just to RVR. There's no good reason NOT to increase the pot charge/duration. As you said, people will do it anyway so it's not a balance issue, it's one of convenience.

Alb will be more affected by this change than the other 2 realms, hence the reason we'll see a larger effect on alb.


Buy them from the housing merchant. That way you don't have to craft a single one. I am sure some people will take up alchemy if you are willing to pay enough for their products.
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Mauriac
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Postby Mauriac » Apr 10, 2016 20:34

What i'm about to post is probably nothing new to most people on here and we all know it's not going to happen but i'm just going to say it anyway.

Most of us here have played DAoC since release or shortly thereafter. We played when smite clerics were amazing (and subsequently nerfed because of complaints from their own realm :lol: ). We played when all you needed to do as a zerker was go hamster mode and spam DF and 2 shot anyone. We played when sneaks could 1 shot casters and not pop out of stealth etc etc etc.

Bottom line, throughout the history of this game there have been Midgard favored patches, hib favored patches, and maybe for like 5 minutes there was an alb favored patch. The thing that i don't understand is why shoot for an EXACT patch level and instead, pull from a combination of patch levels to get the most balanced server.

For example, we're going for patch level 1.65 which is a great starting place. However, we know we're going to have BGs (which weren't introduced for raiding until a later patch level). With regards to potions there are 2 minute endurance pots with a 1 min cooldown that have one charge. In later patch levels the amount of regen and the duration was kept the same but the charge increased to 10. THIS DOES NOT IMPACT GAMEPLAY AT ALL. The only thing it does it keep the action going longer.

I get that we're trying to minimize custom stuff, and i also get that none of what i'm posting is going to happen. I'm simply writing this because in my opinion, when Uthgard reopens it's going to be 90-95% perfect (at least in my head). The last 5-10% would require a minor amount of tweaking. It's really easy to just say "Patch level 1.65, that's it". We all know however, Alb rvr is going to be a joke. It's basically going to be mid vs hib vs infiltrators.

Having said all that, i'm still looking forward to beta so we can keep this project going. Thank you to all the staff for your hard work and making this thing a reality. The reality is you can't please everyone and everyone is going to have their own vision of what "perfect" is. The one thing we can probably all agree on is that Uth, while it may not be perfect, is as close as it gets for all of us.

Cheers.

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Austerim
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Postby Austerim » Apr 10, 2016 20:38

End regen 3 potions had a 5 second reuse timer. 8) 10 minute regen potions does impact gameplay. It makes Albs less likely to run a Paladin! :oops:
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> You have to be a c*** to be awesome at daoc
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> that's what I learnt
[3:11pm] <Frosty_> then why does austerim suck
lordgriffon wrote:Oh by the way... ever seen a group of 8 smite clerics? Or play against a group like that? I have. Absolute devastation. The group that runs up against them can't kill them fast enough because smite clerics have sooooooo many tools at their disposal combined with decent ranged damage with 8 of them dudes doing it!

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Outphaze
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Postby Outphaze » Apr 10, 2016 20:44

Austerim wrote:End regen 3 potions had a 5 second reuse timer. 8) 10 minute regen potions does impact gameplay. It makes Albs less likely to run a Paladin! :oops:

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dongenergy
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Postby dongenergy » Apr 10, 2016 20:46

disallowing buffbots hurts alb more than it hurts mid and hib :^) no custom boys :^)
fistina

Warcast
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Postby Warcast » Apr 10, 2016 21:02

Aliasss wrote:there is also a Kabbalist with a decent AoE dot (but not comparable to that of the shaman)


They have identical AoE DoT's except the Shaman is far less likely to spec 46 pts in cave to get the same rank.

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Aliasss
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Postby Aliasss » Apr 10, 2016 21:15

dongenergy wrote:disallowing buffbots hurts alb more than it hurts mid and hib :^) no custom boys :^)


damn right!!

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shurick
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Postby shurick » Apr 10, 2016 21:56

I think you guys create too much drama around the whole paladin thing.. I played a paladin since 2001-2004, never had any problems getting in high end rvr groups. We changed people in and out, fought the most talented Mid/Hib groups with both caster and melee builds and won way more then we lost. Sure, there might be some elitist 8 man group guilds out there who will min max everything and looking for that most perfect build before they go out to rvr. However, we are talking about a handful of people in a hopefully big and successful server and I think in general, hybrids wont have much problems here. Main things is to assist down correct targets, have good coordination and you shall be successful. My advice is to play what you desire and if you are decent at it you will be in demand for pve or pvp.
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Outphaze
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Postby Outphaze » Apr 10, 2016 21:59

shurick wrote:I think you guys create too much drama around the whole paladin thing.. I played a paladin since 2001-2004, never had any problems getting in high end rvr groups. We changed people in and out, fought the most talented Mid/Hib groups with both caster and melee builds and won way more then we lost. Sure, there might be some elitist 8 man group guilds out there who will min max everything and looking for that most perfect build before they go out to rvr. However, we are talking about a handful of people in a hopefully big and successful server and I think in general, hybrids wont have much problems here. Main things is to assist down correct targets, have good coordination and you shall be successful. My advice is to play what you desire and if you are decent at it you will be in demand for pve or pvp.

This isn't 2001. People actually know what they're doing now.

The competitive alb 8mans won't run a paladin. It's a wasted slot.

People said the same thing you just said about Genesis - even the casuals refused to play pallys because no one wants to pug a paladin.
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shurick
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Postby shurick » Apr 10, 2016 23:01

I played Genesis as a paladin too for a short time before I got into Uthgard closed beta 6 month ago. I can assure you and everyone else that I did not have any trouble getting in a group for rvr. I quit Genesis due to a general lack of server population. Like I said earlier, you might be talking about "competitive" 8 man elitist groups who are maybe 10-20 people out of the whole server population. I still think that people should play hybrid class if they find it fun and it fits their play style.
Sarge - Healer
Zulus - Berserker
Alec / Aleck - Percival, Albion

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Njor
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Postby Njor » Apr 10, 2016 23:45

all that whining about pots and how horrible that will be, reminds of the vnboards at their worst, hehehe

that whole line of argument:
"class x does not have RA y > therefore we can't take that class in RvR > therefore we need a certain custom change"
is so elitist and shortsighted ... very sad
...and is exactly what happened to DAoC live, devs listened to this nonsense and messed up the whole game over time

the idea that certain classes are not being played/invited to RvR groups because of very particular mechanics is bad and only promoted by a certain (very vocal) subsection of the playerbase...

I salute the Uthgard staff for staying with their decisions

cheers

edit: typo

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