The porter ceremony should help a bit for new players to get into the flow with old players. If there is no "dont add" philosophy then everything is fine and randoms can run with the mass and take some points here and there. In NF the situation was way worse because high ranked groups totally isolated from the rest.

Currently the population is fine in OF. We have 150-250 players in there at primetime which is good and not seen in NF. In my opinion OF works better with low population than Agramon. You have one hot point to meet. Even with extremely low 20-30 players in OF there would be action at the AMG. Why search elsewhere in low pop situations? Such a point did not exist in NF. So I think OF scales better with player population than NF ever did.

And please, stop that "don't add" mentality. This is not good for all. You fight for your realm, not your group.

This will never happen Blue . I think some players would kill their own realm mates, if they could, to get more rps.

LG Jack

I don't think the don't add mentality comes from wanting more rp's (at least personally speaking).
It comes from wanting at least a bit of a challenge, when you are fighting 8v8 and 8more or 16more people come and just steamroll the fight it takes away all the fun... and more often then not the people who got steamrolled will afk/log off and that leads to even less fun

Maybe, but thats the game, its called RvR and DAoC is famous for that concept.

The "don't add mentality" is just as much a part of the game as the "please add" mentality.

Some people DO fight only for their group, some only for their guild or maybe for their alliance, and others only for themselves. There is nothing wrong with that.

I wonder how long it takes till the first 2 decent rr8+ grps run together as 16 slot (which i would do if i constantly get zerged by 2-3 random fgs).

Hard time for the "random" grps now, the QQing starts in the other direction eventually, other decent regular grps form together, the random zerg grows to 3-4 fgs, to have a chance against the 16 slot decent grps.
Some 8vs8 grps, who do not want to run 16 slot, leave emain for OG and hadrians.
Now comes a hard downtime for the 8vs8 grps, untill more frustratet 8vs8 grps come to the conclusion to try OG or hadrians on a daily basis.

But after that all is fine and everyone happy, the 8vs8 player in theyr zones, the zergs in emain (both sides visiting each other from time to time of course, to give the community at least something to flame about ).
I have seen this evolution process on every OF server i played (which where all live servers though), hope it will be the same here.

Thats daoc, i love it

Blue wrote:The porter ceremony should help a bit for new players to get into the flow with old players. If there is no "dont add" philosophy then everything is fine and randoms can run with the mass and take some points here and there. In NF the situation was way worse because high ranked groups totally isolated from the rest.

Currently the population is fine in OF. We have 150-250 players in there at primetime which is good and not seen in NF. In my opinion OF works better with low population than Agramon. You have one hot point to meet. Even with extremely low 20-30 players in OF there would be action at the AMG. Why search elsewhere in low pop situations? Such a point did not exist in NF. So I think OF scales better with player population than NF ever did.

And please, stop that "don't add" mentality. This is not good for all. You fight for your realm, not your group.

I think you're totally missing it now.


Small scale RvR has never been so tiring because there just isn't enough action for the effort you take to go to AMG for instance. And even then, it's still usually a waste of time for any visibles to roam there when there are still one or two FGs roaming. Especially if you would follow your "red is dead" and "add everything" policies.
I will not go through all this again, but I have given enough reason why the smallman and especially lowpeak RvR is not working smoothly at the moment. I also gave my suggestions, but I haven't seen any response to those yet, which I think really is a shame.

In my opinion, you really can't speak for the RvR community when you're not a part of it. Now I'm not saying this because I don't agree with you, I'm saying this because I know that if you haven't witnessed the situation, you don't know how it really feels. Which is why I think you should listen to your community a bit more instead of just making claims saying "everything is fine", because it's not if you take a deeper look. Uthgard is online 24/7 almost, you can't just ignore 20 out of the 24 hours per day and say everything is fine. It's like you ignoring the fact that Uthgard is an international server with people from all over the globe instead of a server with a primetime and downtime for everyone, like the splitted Euro and US servers. No, it's a server with an almost continuing primetime, just populated by different players at different times.

Is their fun really worth less because they are not as numerous?

I will agree that at primetime, OF is great. But at every other time, OF needs some work. I hope you can realise this some day. For instance at lowpeak hours, the timers really are too long. So bringing it to 5 or 6 minutes would be better. Also on primetime it really woulnd't hurt.


Let me explain why it's silly to have an "all add" and "red is dead" policy. I'm for instance a realist, this is a game, and I'd like to play it fair. DAoC RvR is a community too, not a bunch of massmurdering elves and trolls. As long as you only think of yourself and your own 'achievements', you won't ever gain any respect from anyone else. Just like it is in real life sports.
My fun doesn't have to come at the expense of others', I enjoy a fight a lot more if my opponent enjoys it too because its a challenge for both sides.
That's also why we don't like to add somewhat equally matched fights, because we would destroy every need to give everything you got to win that fight. In fact if you add, it's no fight anymore, it's just cleaning up the zone, which eventually will make the enemy log off because they know they don't stand a chance. It's like boxing as an annorexia patient vs the heavy weight champion. If that's the only fight there is, you simply don't want to fight it because you already know the outcome and it's no fun at all when you don't stand a chance.

Do you feel respected and satisfied about your achievements when you know that the way you did it absolutely deserved no respect at all due to its filthy play and complete egoism? Some people do, I don't. That's why I don't add.
Realm rank DOES NOT make ANYONE respect you. In fact it can even be the opposite in some cases (like zerging 24/7, since it's avoiding any challenge and disrespecting other players' chance on getting a challenging fight).

Of course some people do really still have that good old "for the realm" feeling, but I'm afraid some of us have passed it and are trying to have fun fighting enemy players, since in the end, no realm will be the ultimate winner anyway. The only winner is the player that has the most fun by playing, and that's completely personal.
Some people like to play for the realm, and I won't stop them. Some people like to play for the competition. Both parties can co-exist, as long as each of them communicates in a mature manner, there should be no problems.

PS: With the amount of RvRing population Uthgard has, you can't afford to destroy other people's fun as much as possible because you will only make action die out by that. (In other words: add every fight and kill every enemy.)

In order to play the way you propose, we would need at least another 200 ACTIVE RvR players, not another 50 Xpers in the frontiers, because you can state numbers of 150-250 in OF at primetime, but that's irrelevant. What is relevant is the number of actually RvRing players, since xpers will try NOT to get any fight because they will lose that anyhow, 90% of the time.

Now I personally can't wait till that day arrives, but I think the only way to reach it is to optimise the whole RvR system to Uthgard's current population and setting. If the effort of looking for action is too high compared to the fun you gain from it in total, this server won't be able to attract more players. Just like it's not fun to see your efforts are useless because of some imbalances.

Mate, don't take this the wrong way or anything, but that's not 2 cents, that's more like a hundred bucks.

I agree with what you're saying (as I've said above) but you really need to learn to be more concise and to the point, instead of producing walls of text on every issue. I also suspect that this is at least partly the reason why you seldom get staff feedback on your posts.

Also, there is no "all add" policy on Uthgard because if there was I would never play here, along with the majority of the population. I think Blue was just stating his opinion.

Nymeros wrote:Mate, don't take this the wrong way or anything, but that's not 2 cents, that's more like a hundred bucks.

I agree with what you're saying (as I've said above) but you really need to learn to be more concise and to the point, instead of producing walls of text on every issue. I also suspect that this is at least partly the reason why you seldom get staff feedback on your posts.

Also, there is no "all add" policy on Uthgard because if there was I would never play here, along with the majority of the population. I think Blue was just stating his opinion.

I know but I can't be fussed to keep editing it untill I get to the core.

Mmmh ok, I have edited a lot to make it shorter, hope my point still stands.

I can understand both: those who add/zerg and those who dont. I think everyone should do what he feels like, and thats it.

Different way of playing and having fun. For me daoc is kind of war... for shizzle no real war, but just playing war can also be fun.

Fun can be a relict raid with 100 people, a decent 8vs8 as well as to kill dem silly elfies and crush dem lurikeen in an unfair 24vs3. It' s more of an RPG way of playing, but you can't dictate others to just have your way of fun.

We dont add fights for the ar pees, most of us left behind rr10-13 chars on live servers to join the fun here... we wanked enough on RP lists*g

But we add fights for midgard. For example in generall we don't add 1vs1 stealther fights with a middie involved, but we heal the middie so he cant loose the fight.
No ar pees for us, but victory for midgard yaay

And as mentioned earlier, what is so really nice about leaving 2 grps fight then come back and kill the winning grp? Ok maybe they had a nice fight, but the fight after is also no nice fight at all, no respect for that from me.

To be consequent you should leave them alone for 15 minutes, i bet 100 bugs you will not do this

If you don't want to be addet, go OG or Hadrians. Not enough action there? knock on some keeps to lure some enemys. Keep doing this. Give it maybe a month or maybe more and you will have nice small scale rvr zones. The zergs will stay in Emain (never understood why, maybe the green gras or so...). We try to not add 8v8 in OG or hadrians owed to our respect for our needs, but for this i can only speak for my guild.

Emain is war zone, if we don't add some other grps does, kills the midgard grp and we are against 2 grps and loose also.

JackPriest wrote:This will never happen Blue . I think some players would kill their own realm mates, if they could, to get more rps.

LG Jack

I certainly would, that's actually why we decided to twink on hib

holsten-knight wrote:And as mentioned earlier, what is so really nice about leaving 2 grps fight then come back and kill the winning grp? Ok maybe they had a nice fight, but the fight after is also no nice fight at all, no respect for that from me.

To be consequent you should leave them alone for 15 minutes, i bet 100 bugs you will not do this

No, just 2 minutes to rebuff and reg, nothing more.

If you dump all you have in one fight, you don't deserve to live the next anyway.

Zarkor, can quickly sum (in a FEW sentences) up what you are after here?
I tried to read everything you wrote, but got distracted halfway could not remember how you started.

Imho OF is implemented quite nice now and the staff works on various things to make it even better, like mobs and their abilities and the relic system.