Uthgard • View topic - Is three Grab Bags a crowd?

Is three Grab Bags a crowd?

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Trishin Game Master Posts: 5048 Joined: Apr 07, 2010 00:00	by Trishin » Jun 28, 2015 18:18 Alpha this is not about being secretive, it is about communicating clearly and understandable. Anyone who has worked with PR or marketing know how fast a missing comma or a poorly chosen word can make everything you tried to do go in the wrong direction. The "secretive" in not telling the community what exactly needs to be finished is because it's a lose lose situation, if we do inform the community. Just look at the post I responded to for an example, I told everyone I was working on the grab bag, and it didn't take more than a couple of days before it back fired on me. Got any questions? Submit them to me and I will try to get them answered in our grab bag ! Rajnish wrote:Why didn't someone warn me that being GM means lots of boring research, logging, testing and organizing data.... I thought it was all about looking cool.... Uthgard Rules \|\| How to connect \|\| FAQ

Jerrian Phoenix Knight Posts: 1430 Joined: Jan 21, 2010 01:00	by Jerrian » Jun 28, 2015 18:59 Hi, I ´ve to defend the staff in this situation, the communication got much better during the last months, well it ´s not a developers diary but I ´m ok with these grab bags and Abydos told us it should be done in this year, so the soonest release of beta might be in autumn probably, because of the summer hole there won ´t be much work done in this period. That ´s time calculation of Abydos is something we can work with, I ´m personally not unhappy when beta is released in autum and Uthgard in winter, much time to play then because of the bad weather. About the donations , staff never asked for it or made any promises, it ´s cool some ppl doing still donations, I´ll wait for it when the server is back again to save myself from frustration about the long time of waiting until I can play again. The proble is when I ´m paying money for something I want something back and I see these donations more as a payment for service, so the service is not available for me at the moment so I save my money until it is before I ´m getting upset. @ Trish I made already a list of the open points for grab bags at side 13, I think I got them all to save you some work. best regards Megrim

shurick Myrmidon Posts: 116 Joined: Oct 25, 2014 19:20	by shurick » Jun 28, 2015 19:20 Trishin wrote:Alpha this is not about being secretive, it is about communicating clearly and understandable. Anyone who has worked with PR or marketing know how fast a missing comma or a poorly chosen word can make everything you tried to do go in the wrong direction. The "secretive" in not telling the community what exactly needs to be finished is because it's a lose lose situation, if we do inform the community. Just look at the post I responded to for an example, I told everyone I was working on the grab bag, and it didn't take more than a couple of days before it back fired on me. The complaining mostly comes from the fact that previous grab bags were posted at about 3 week intervals and now it has been over 2 month since the last one. Although it was never stated that these grab bags are supposed to come out at specific time, people get used to it and consider it a breath of fresh air and small step forward towards the reopening of the server. I wont even mention news updates. I don't even want to know what the process is and who you guys have to clear them with in order to post one. Bottom line is we are frustrated because we all are passionate fans of the project and we have to wait for months and beg for any sort of response from anyone on the team. Sarge - Healer Zulus - Berserker Alec / Aleck - Percival, Albion

Orihiime Phoenix Knight Posts: 1740 Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:40	by Orihiime » Jun 28, 2015 19:51 shurick wrote: Trishin wrote:Alpha this is not about being secretive, it is about communicating clearly and understandable. Anyone who has worked with PR or marketing know how fast a missing comma or a poorly chosen word can make everything you tried to do go in the wrong direction. The "secretive" in not telling the community what exactly needs to be finished is because it's a lose lose situation, if we do inform the community. Just look at the post I responded to for an example, I told everyone I was working on the grab bag, and it didn't take more than a couple of days before it back fired on me. The complaining mostly comes from the fact that previous grab bags were posted at about 3 week intervals and now it has been over 2 month since the last one. Although it was never stated that these grab bags are supposed to come out at specific time, people get used to it and consider it a breath of fresh air and small step forward towards the reopening of the server. I wont even mention news updates. I don't even want to know what the process is and who you guys have to clear them with in order to post one. Bottom line is we are frustrated because we all are passionate fans of the project and we have to wait for months and beg for any sort of response from anyone on the team. I know idiots having hard time with maths, so i help you. Last Grab Bag was only 1 month and 6 days ago so well, go back to school while waiting for uthgard's return, because the " over 2 months " is just lol. 2012:<@[Uth]Abydos> If we don't have SI by the end of the year, Im fairly certain I wont be a GM anymore :-p

Saarn INVADER Posts: 0 Joined: Dec 18, 2014 22:06	by Saarn » Jun 29, 2015 02:25 When Blue said no more SI for a faster relaunch not many people were like "awww ****** Blue and his lies, let's all jump ship and never check forums again" Most people were like "That sucks, but woohoo!! 2.0 coming sooner." I don't understand why you have decided that the only bad news you are not willing to live with is a missed ETA. It makes no sense. We are all adults and can handle taking a little punishment from something we love.

Juri Eagle Knight Posts: 766 Joined: Mar 10, 2011 03:18	by Juri » Jun 29, 2015 03:00 Saarn wrote:[...]taking a little punishment from something we love. Isn't that abusive love?

Love me Babby Myrmidon Posts: 122 Joined: Jan 11, 2011 08:31 Location: California - Hells Anus Website	by Love me Babby » Jun 29, 2015 05:09 Neuro wrote: Lastly, thank you, of course, but it is more infuriating for a player base when there is a sarcastic GM response with "when it's done, it's done." That makes me feel like you don't care about the players at all, and everybody left Uthgard when Genesis launched for just that reason. It would be prudent to NOT repeat history when you have the most passionate DAoC fanbase imo in the world. That is all. Thank you guys, good luck on the server and hopefully she's up soon +1 Care or don't Care, But do something. If you need help, ASK If you just don't enjoy Daoc any more, SAY IT If you don't know anything, Tell us Two years man, Lets put the donations towards help. I work on odesk or now upwork. Thousands of people are literally sitting on their computers waiting to help you. I will pay for the damn server, if you can get some freelancers to finish this.

Sillyfish Gryphon Knight Posts: 268 Joined: Jan 14, 2013 09:56	by Sillyfish » Jun 29, 2015 06:36 Love me Babby wrote: Neuro wrote: Lastly, thank you, of course, but it is more infuriating for a player base when there is a sarcastic GM response with "when it's done, it's done." That makes me feel like you don't care about the players at all, and everybody left Uthgard when Genesis launched for just that reason. It would be prudent to NOT repeat history when you have the most passionate DAoC fanbase imo in the world. That is all. Thank you guys, good luck on the server and hopefully she's up soon +1 Care or don't Care, But do something. If you need help, ASK If you just don't enjoy Daoc any more, SAY IT If you don't know anything, Tell us Two years man, Lets put the donations towards help. I work on odesk or now upwork. Thousands of people are literally sitting on their computers waiting to help you. I will pay for the damn server, if you can get some freelancers to finish this. It is their perogative on whether to hire outside help to get the server up or not. No amount of telling them what to do is going to make them make a decision that they do not want to make. This wont happen, and i can't blame them either. They're working on it themselves. They know the code. I'm also quite certain they want to be able to be intimately familiar with it in case something arises in the future and they need to make changes. Be patient. Or don't. I don't really care. But stop telling them what to do when they provide a service for free. And if you come back with some smartass comment about them not providing anything because Uthgard is down right now, shut the ****** up. If you don't like it, leave.

Orihiime Phoenix Knight Posts: 1740 Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:40	by Orihiime » Jun 29, 2015 06:44 Love me Babby wrote: Neuro wrote: Lastly, thank you, of course, but it is more infuriating for a player base when there is a sarcastic GM response with "when it's done, it's done." That makes me feel like you don't care about the players at all, and everybody left Uthgard when Genesis launched for just that reason. It would be prudent to NOT repeat history when you have the most passionate DAoC fanbase imo in the world. That is all. Thank you guys, good luck on the server and hopefully she's up soon +1 Care or don't Care, But do something. If you need help, ASK If you just don't enjoy Daoc any more, SAY IT If you don't know anything, Tell us Two years man, Lets put the donations towards help. I work on odesk or now upwork. Thousands of people are literally sitting on their computers waiting to help you. I will pay for the damn server, if you can get some freelancers to finish this. Why in every post from you there is always something about donations ? Can you get it that they are not doing this for money, but just because they like it ? 2012:<@[Uth]Abydos> If we don't have SI by the end of the year, Im fairly certain I wont be a GM anymore :-p

Love me Babby Myrmidon Posts: 122 Joined: Jan 11, 2011 08:31 Location: California - Hells Anus Website	by Love me Babby » Jun 29, 2015 07:43 Orihiime wrote: Love me Babby wrote: Neuro wrote: Lastly, thank you, of course, but it is more infuriating for a player base when there is a sarcastic GM response with "when it's done, it's done." That makes me feel like you don't care about the players at all, and everybody left Uthgard when Genesis launched for just that reason. It would be prudent to NOT repeat history when you have the most passionate DAoC fanbase imo in the world. That is all. Thank you guys, good luck on the server and hopefully she's up soon +1 Care or don't Care, But do something. If you need help, ASK If you just don't enjoy Daoc any more, SAY IT If you don't know anything, Tell us Two years man, Lets put the donations towards help. I work on odesk or now upwork. Thousands of people are literally sitting on their computers waiting to help you. I will pay for the damn server, if you can get some freelancers to finish this. Why in every post from you there is always something about donations ? Can you get it that they are not doing this for money, but just because they like it ? You don't actually comprehend a whole lot, do you.

Love me Babby Myrmidon Posts: 122 Joined: Jan 11, 2011 08:31 Location: California - Hells Anus Website	by Love me Babby » Jun 29, 2015 07:51 Sillyfish wrote: Be patient. Or don't. I don't really care. But stop telling them what to do when they provide a service for free. And if you come back with some smartass comment about them not providing anything because Uthgard is down right now, shut the ****** up. If you don't like it, leave. Apparently you do care. Like all of us here, still... after Two years... Sitting here... Waiting... So you can stfu. This forum is just a flame fest at this point. Seriously shut it down. If you ever finish what ever it is just post it on facebook.

relvinian Phoenix Knight Posts: 1722 Joined: Oct 16, 2012 08:25	by relvinian » Jun 29, 2015 08:01 Say it with me Vanity project. https://www.uthgard.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37632 Players can greatly contribute to a server if you let them. Uthgard, still the best server. Thanks, Devs.

Love me Babby Myrmidon Posts: 122 Joined: Jan 11, 2011 08:31 Location: California - Hells Anus Website	by Love me Babby » Jun 29, 2015 08:10 vanity project In home improvement, a project that adds minimal value to the home (and may actually decrease home value) and is undertaken on the whims of the homeowner. Usually done by someone with too much money on their hands. A DIY project, no matter how odd, typically doesn't qualify as a vanity project if they actually work on it themselves. My rich uncle's latest vanity project was getting the solar panels ripped off his roof and replaced with a replica of Kennedy Space Center for his model rockets.

Donutttt INVADER Posts: 0 Joined: Oct 29, 2014 11:04	by Donutttt » Jun 29, 2015 13:35 There's a lot of frustration going around at the moment... I think it's because it's been a while since the last proper news post? Was the last one October? I can't really remember.

Neuro Warder Posts: 14 Joined: Feb 11, 2014 22:32	by Neuro » Jun 29, 2015 15:05 Trishin wrote: But it takes Trishin as much time as it takes a surgical practice to recover a patient from frontal lobe lebotomy. Come on guys. It's just getting ridiciulous. Here is how grab bags are done, and hopefully this will clear up why it isn't just "10 minutes and it's done". 1. I find some questions (5-10 minutes work) 2. I try to answer these questions (5-20 minutes of work depending on the questions) 3. I post these internally so everyone can have a saying in the answers (1-2 minutes of work) 4. I discuss the answers and wording with every staff member in that thread (1 hour - 14 days of work depending on the wording, questions, how quickly it gets cleared by the rest of the staff - Obviously some questions require more discussion than others) 5. I rewrite the post to fit the grab bag format (5-10 minutes of work) 6. I post the grab bag on our forum and facebook page (5 minutes of work) Some of you might question why my estimates are so big, but take them as guidelines more than anything on how long it takes to do each step. Obviously some questions are easy to answer, some actually take a long time to get the wording right. What many of you forget is that in order to answer these questions, we have to choose our wordings carefully. Or they will be misunderstood / used by trolls / questioned / (you get the picture now). We also have to remember what the answers are, as some of these questions refer to decisions made almost 2 years ago and frankly we sometimes forget what we decided on a specific topic since the job is already done. So while it might seem like it takes 10 minutes for me to do a grab bag, it often takes much longer because we need as a team to agree with the information we are passing onto you all. Add the fact that this is a spare time project which means that you won't always get people to respond to grab bag questions within a couple of minutes. And finally: @What donations money are used for? Your donations are used for one thing only, which is server cost. So if you want to make sure Blue doesn't have to pay for the server himself, you can donate some money. If not, Blue will pay this out of his own pocket. P.S. This is exactly why we don't give out ETAs. We give you a hint on what we are working on, and what the goal is. And suddenly we have to spend 10-20 minutes defending why it isn't done as fast as you wanted it to be. Trish, I appreciate you coming to post here because nobody else on your staff has had as much a presence as you. But look at your first grab bag. You mean to tell me that you had to go through the above steps to list the BGs, type NO for custom zones, link the GALLERY for the mile gates, and then give the same non-descript roundabout answer for name reservations? That could not have taken the allotted time you described. And if you didn't know those answers it just further proves my point that your staff is taking unnecessarily long time while we send more donations waiting for an answer or a concrete timeline. So that is my point to this whole thing -- and I don't blame you because I am fairly certain there's just nothing you can do on the public presence of the forum that would give us any kind of hope. There have been a million really good questions about launch date, beta, etc., but you give us an obvious NO for Tajendi (of course there is no Taj in a truly 1.6X server!). To reiterate, I am obviously frustrated, albeit hopeful. You have an excellent community of passionate gamers who want the project to succeed since they've given it years of their life. Don't lock us out, let us help.