RonELuvv wrote:Apologies if this has already been tackled by many others but these really made me laugh out loud.

Satiah wrote:1L9... We are supposed to run in big RvR with 1L9. With Old RAs. Where half the classes need to pay a 4 skillpoint tax to get the useless +12 stats RA as prerequisite for other RAs since without them you're basically crippled.

Where is this quote of mine?

The BG change discussion is psychologically quite revealing if you read between the lines. It has unearthed a deep-seated performance anxiety in some, a fear of being beaten, twisted into a debate on equality. The bogeyman of the evil elitist set groups is blown out of all proportion.

If one were to judge purely from the forums, an outsider would get the impression that Uth 2.0 will be a digital hell, in which hordes of elitist devils, bent purely on destroying everyone's enjoyment of the game, are scavenging the frontiers for a small minority of poor, helpless victims who, by no fault of their own of course, have been singled out by the bullies. The latter are aided by the sadistic staff, who have been rigging the server rules in the background for years in order to make the victims' lives even more miserable. In a final, ruthless decision, their last bastion and sanctuary - the high-lvl BGs - which so long had shielded them from the terror and persecution that is Emain Macha, was destroyed. With no other place to go, the victims are led in a long procession to the frontiers, the rumble of the elitist masses heading their way clearly audible, while the staff members have congregated in Blue's Mansion of Evil to watch the slaughter in a live-stream.

Scalado wrote:The BG change discussion is psychologically quite revealing if you read between the lines. It has unearthed a deep-seated performance anxiety in some, a fear of being beaten, twisted into a debate on equality. The bogeyman of the evil elitist set groups is blown out of all proportion.

If one were to judge purely from the forums, an outsider would get the impression that Uth 2.0 will be a digital hell, in which hordes of elitist devils, bent purely on destroying everyone's enjoyment of the game, are scavenging the frontiers for a small minority of poor, helpless victims who, by no fault of their own of course, have been singled out by the bullies. The latter are aided by the sadistic staff, who have been rigging the server rules in the background for years in order to make the victims' lives even more miserable. In a final, ruthless decision, their last bastion and sanctuary - the high-lvl BGs - which so long had shielded them from the terror and persecution that is Emain Macha, was destroyed. With no other place to go, the victims are led in a long procession to the frontiers, the rumble of the elitist masses heading their way clearly audible, while the staff members have congregated in Blue's Mansion of Evil to watch the slaughter in a live-stream.

this this seems the prologue of a fantasy book

1L9, why not ? but can we /rp off and /xp off to stay on BG ?

Oswaldo wrote:Im beginning to fear that these forum warriors never actually played daoc at patch 1.65 or before.. sure seems like that...

Of course they did not.

They don't know the time when there had not even been Realm Abilities available, when you could be mezzed and mezzed over and over again and all you could do is watch your group being farmed by hibs/mids as Alb, since instant-mezz/stun was simply OP and Sorcerers were not available at all, because of a mind-sorc had no place in ANY group (no damage, no pom, just CC, nothing else, not even a debuff for any dmg type).

I can still remember the short messages with a Matter-Sorc I invited into our tree-group in Lyonesse for cold- and heat-debuffs, the player was asking if I'm joking ... he never had a group before, that was shortly before Darkness Falls was released (my ice-Wizard hit level 50 in DF ... my first toon to hit 50!).

They also don't remember the times when the highest craftable armor was 98AF, the highest weapon damage was 16.2 DPS, the time when you had to move to the frontier zone border keep to get the highest tier crafting ingredients. The time when people used their epic-quest lvl 40 weapon until they hit 50, because of nothing was better, except some OTD's in certain realms. (pre-DF) Good times!

They also don't know about how hard it was to get somewhat good gear, since SC was non-existant. Dragonraids were hard, really hard and not too often if at all. Additional, the dragons roamed the dragon-zones and roasted those who went there to level up. Good gear was, well, hard to get.

Not to forget, the times when in Albion Stonehenge was the only high level zone (next to Llyn Barfog, but don't quote me on that, I only leveled there from 20 - 25 with my Merc solo), since Dartmoor (Albion) wasn't implemented yet (same is true for Hib and Mid of course), and Lyonesse wasn't really populated yet either.


Those good old times. DAoC in Europe started with patch 1.36 if I remember correctly, and it was a fun time to see it develop until 2005, when I personally quit playing on the life servers.

Ah those wonderful memories, very good old times! When DAoC was still a real adventure!

ye daoc was once very hardcore, i never experienced those extremes ur talking of but ive heard many storys. and we bypass alot of that with uthgards patch lvl goal. but ur always gonna be able to bypass old / odd / unbalenced / unfair mechanics and implementations with future patch lvls up untill u reach live. my fear is once yes has been said for 1 thing, then this discussion will never stop

As Lupold said in his wonderful video concerning Uthgard: "without all the kinds of flaming, i don't want to keep on gaming. Without all the pros and retards, hey, they are also community parts".

I've always been a casual player on DaoC just because i don't have so much time to spend on it, so i feel like i can be added in the "retards" part of the community. Anyway i don't care about being destroyed by pros with higher RR or whatever, I'll just /rel stronger anytime . someone has already said correctly that GMs can't do much about player's approach to Uth 2.0, any change will like or not like, we just have to get used to it, no matter how hard it can be.

Remember that in ANY game (and not only games) there are people better, who started from 0 aswell. Even in games like WoW which is way easier casual gamers get melted by veterans. People talking about equality between hardcore gamers and casual gamers thinking that it can be preserved by starting both from 0 don't understand the real difference about this two kinds.

As a casual gamer i am sure that i will /rel a lot at the beginning, i just need the time to get into the RvR. And hardcore gamers who play all day long may sometimes have a spot in a party for you, where you will learn more about the game from people better than you (this happened on Genesis a lot)

Scalado wrote:The BG change discussion is psychologically quite revealing if you read between the lines. It has unearthed a deep-seated performance anxiety in some, a fear of being beaten, twisted into a debate on equality. The bogeyman of the evil elitist set groups is blown out of all proportion.

If one were to judge purely from the forums, an outsider would get the impression that Uth 2.0 will be a digital hell, in which hordes of elitist devils, bent purely on destroying everyone's enjoyment of the game, are scavenging the frontiers for a small minority of poor, helpless victims who, by no fault of their own of course, have been singled out by the bullies. The latter are aided by the sadistic staff, who have been rigging the server rules in the background for years in order to make the victims' lives even more miserable. In a final, ruthless decision, their last bastion and sanctuary - the high-lvl BGs - which so long had shielded them from the terror and persecution that is Emain Macha, was destroyed. With no other place to go, the victims are led in a long procession to the frontiers, the rumble of the elitist masses heading their way clearly audible, while the staff members have congregated in Blue's Mansion of Evil to watch the slaughter in a live-stream.

I think you actually hit the nail on the head, friend. I realize that you are probably on the other side of my position that a few changes could make the game more fun and the population more sustainable. But what you are describing as satire would be funny if it wasn't so accurate.

There are players who like to pve and there are players who like small man bg type rvr and there are also many players who do not like to have cast damage add and pom on every single player in a group for that old time feeling. There are players that do not like fighting over and over and not getting any rps at all due to no rps while dead and there are players who log out of the game the 3-4th time that they get killed by greygankers while xping.

I think there an elitist attitude that says that there was one good old daoc and one way to play that good old daoc and also if you don't like that one way? Go away.

Guess what? Many people will choose to do that.

The post roll out daoc will look like your digital hell as you describe it except the vets will also pl their alts. New players will find it very difficult to find xp groups as the only real xp groups will be vets pling their alts.

At which point, if there is only one real daoc the lvl 50 rvr then why not make it an insta 50 server?

I love it when people show their real true l337 attitudes on these forums and if you are willing to slog the posts long enough people do show their true colors.

"this whole discussion always seems to just focus around RvR and pugs vs almighty veteran 8mans (as also RonELuvv's post above mine just underlines).... seems these are the most vocal players in the community...not necessarily the majority I think

I have a few of points on this

1.
there is PvE in DAoC:
some people actually enjoy doing that, especially pre-1.8ish PvE is challenging, soloing is hard (supporting the group building aspect), most quests are interesting and/or difficult, PvE in frontiers is dangerous because even as a lowbie you will get killed for rp's.

2.
crafting:
some love it, many need it, enough said

3.
there is some fun to be had between pugs (apparently doomed to have no fun and leave server immediately after reopening) and veteran 8man groups (apparently little fun because its so boring to kill pugs) in RvR:
pugs with a couple of experienced players, pugs/players who just have fun experiencing big time RvR and which don't mind getting killed while learning the game, zergs, running around solo/duo and just add fights trying to get a kill, stealthing around OF to reach enemy lowbie lvl grounds with your low RR archer trying to get a shot or two off to get a couple of rp's

...and much more

cheers"

All good points. A sustainable daoc server with an adequate population needs casual players and to be friendly to new players. And it isn't just the people at 50 in the frontier rvring that matter. There is also such a thing as an economy. Also they call this type of game a massively multiplayer online game-- the idea is to support large numbers of players, to have a community, an economy, and to encourage many different stories to he shared and told by the devs and the players and to allow many different play styles. The game requires interdependence and cooperation but still allows for solo and casual play.

I like crafters, for example, but not crafting. I like some pve but not painful slow xp pve. I think the game would be a lot better and more immersive as it encourages more play styles and more stories to be told rather than just one story, the 50 8 man rvr.

relvinian wrote:All good points. A sustainable daoc server with an adequate population needs casual players and to be friendly to new players. And it isn't just the people at 50 in the frontier rvring that matter. There is also such a thing as an economy. Also they call this type of game a massively multiplayer online game-- the idea is to support large numbers of players, to have a community, an economy, and to encourage many different stories to he shared and told by the devs and the players and to allow many different play styles. The game requires interdependence and cooperation but still allows for solo and casual play.

So what is it that you want, exactly? A babysitter that takes you into each phase of the game, starting from PvE by taking you to 50, gifting you a full capped tp and then takes you with him in RvR, granting you 30k pr/day while teaching you the secrets on how to be good at this game?

Would that make it more 'casual friendly'?

Juri wrote:

relvinian wrote:All good points. A sustainable daoc server with an adequate population needs casual players and to be friendly to new players. And it isn't just the people at 50 in the frontier rvring that matter. There is also such a thing as an economy. Also they call this type of game a massively multiplayer online game-- the idea is to support large numbers of players, to have a community, an economy, and to encourage many different stories to he shared and told by the devs and the players and to allow many different play styles. The game requires interdependence and cooperation but still allows for solo and casual play.

So what is it that you want, exactly? A babysitter that takes you into each phase of the game, starting from PvE by taking you to 50, gifting you a full capped tp and then takes you with him in RvR, granting you 30k pr/day while teaching you the secrets on how to be good at this game?

Would that make it more 'casual friendly'?

exactly this is what they want/need and this is what i want to try to provide to the casuals on uth2.
we have to accept that our pls dont add acting is what lowers the population in rvr zones most.
and tbh if there are casualgrps noone really mind if they add each other... but without allowed add you wont see any casual grp out there.
and noone will build a zerg for them so they stick to pve.

i hope i can change some issues which casuals are faced to and provide a casual friendly community, BUT in a all in all unfriendly enviroment!

What is all this bs about vets pling their alts..

same bs over and over again in these posts.. this is getting old ._.

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:exactly this is what they want/need and this is what i want to try to provide to the casuals on uth2.
we have to accept that our pls dont add acting is what lowers the population in rvr zones most.
and tbh if there are casualgrps noone really mind if they add each other... but without allowed add you wont see any casual grp out there.
and noone will build a zerg for them so they stick to pve.

i hope i can change some issues which casuals are faced to and provide a casual friendly community, BUT in a all in all unfriendly enviroment!

Ok, but only if they're willing to do it in first place. All I've seen up until now are lazy asses that are not willing to do anything but complain to improve their gaming experience.

(BTW I never had anything to say about adding or zerging, in fact I enjoy it and accept it as it is part of this game's mechanics. Does that make me less of an 'elitist'? Is my status in danger? )

same as juri.

i only ever see i cant i cant i cant i cant.... they wont they wont they wont they wont.

just do whatever u want, but in order to do what u want u actualy have to DO something.

ppl fear not being accepted in an elitest enviroment, well u all let the elitest's thrive by doing nothing. i respect solo and fair fights, and get ****** off when someone ruins my type of playstyle but ultimatly u shouldnt care about my feelings since its ur game aswell. each and every personality is valuable and can contribute.

Oswaldo wrote:What is all this bs about vets pling their alts..

same bs over and over again in these posts.. this is getting old ._.

Make a character on Genesis and hit /lfg and type out /lfg 5 newb lfg or 10 cleric lfg or 17 ranger lfg and you can spam that all day long and not find a group. You can also form your own groups and sometimes get some success. Or if you hit a pl group, like i did on an alt the other day I went from lvl 24 to lvl 38 in two hours.

If Uthgard removes the xp cap for low levels in groups with 50's then aoe dots groups-- Mentalist, cabalist, shaman, will be the most efficient way to xp. You aoe dot a large mass and run around til they die. Once you have a level 50 ment, cab, sham, then you can pl whoever you want.

Eventually you will have the few new players logging in spamming lfg all day long and having a hard time finding a group. All the vets with their templated 50s can powerlevel their alts at will. You start new and solo xp on off times and you might have a /played of 15 days to 50. Have a pl guild group ur 50 /played might be 7 hours.

People talk about my crystal ball or my ability to read the future. No, it is just an understanding of history and what I know of the nature of people. They don't like to work harder than they have to and they like to get results for their work.

When there is a environment that is too far out of whack between vets and newbs then there is no need to make things even worse by giving rps for greys and no rps while dead.

You will have lvl 50 toons in a couple days out ganking greys xping. In a few months the xp environment will be just as I describe with difficulty finding groups except for the vets who can pl their alts.

I don't have any problem with a tough environment but I do have a problem with almost deliberately ignoring reality of what will be and seeming not to care at all, even to encourage new players being fed into the vet grinder.

Because people will not play, they will leave, and we will lose the potential of a great server and end up with another pointless jerk off with a small population of the same people.