relvinian wrote:In reality its come to rvr land and be farmed by vets.

In any skill based game this will ALWAYS be the case. Unless you make it non-skill based.

All the server wipes and RA changes in the world will never change this fact.

Noone forces anyone to move into the frontier zones to level up. Even! if the XP is 50% higher than somewhere else in the same level range, it's still more effective to NOT move into the frontier zones.

Of course, frontier is huge, lot's of space and to get 'caught' is not that risky. Yet to get there can be a pain, to replace someone because of someone has to leave can be a pain too. It's easier to level in the home zones.

Those that want to level in the frontier -> go ahead and do so. You know the risks, live with them.

Blue told me once there was a bug with the xp calculation at Uth 1.0,- this level difference border between chars, that prevented the low level to gain regular xp when grouped with chars that are 10+ levels beyond it own, should be away with Uth 2.0.

So, there should be np to PL low chars now with lvl. 50 toons.. but maybe better wait until something official is announced by staff, it ´s a long time ago I got this information, so maybe it ´s outdated now.

When there ´s a decision about grays give rps, I will avoid df and frontiers for leveling, when there ´s no rps while dead I´ll think about to solo rvr, problems solved.

Trishin wrote:Everyone is still very narrow in their analysis of allowing / rewarding grey killing. Try look a bit on the bigger picture. What does it do to a community to have this game mechanic? What does it do to the overall feel of the game?

Instead of focusing on specifics such as "action moved from AMG to level spots". Because such a change doesn't mean much compared to the big picture. People are still out there, they are just sitting at location X Y Z instead of location A B C. (i.e. lvl spots in frontier zones instead of DF)

Sure let us examine what you wrote.

What does it do for the community to allow this mechanic (greys being worth rp)?

Not a thing. You can still kill greys but if they weren't worth rps? No difference. I can't tell you how many times that I was in a group of 20's wiped by 50s and the group broke up and 8 people logged. Population is EVERYTHING on a daoc server.

When those people get ganked by 50's and log they aren't out there.

Also, when you get farmed forever and realize at the end of the night, week, whatever that you got hardly rps because your pugs got wiped over and over again by set groups and QUIT RVRING, it hurts population. NO rps even if you killed one of the set group when you and the other 7 of your friends were dead when it happened.

Giving no rps for greys doesn't do anything to hurt the game. Heck you want rps for lvl 20's? Get your level 20s and 30's and go kill some. That encourages RVR. And if some of those xpers get lucky and get a kill in? They get a few RPs and they fill good about life and they want to do more RVR.

The no rps while dead and rps for greys comes from a poverty mentality, likes somehow there is only so much fun to go around. It is wrong thinking and detrimental to populatiion. No upside at all, and only a downside.

It is about fun. NO rps while dead is not fun. RPs for greys is not fun-- except for those who like their fun at others expense.

svperstar wrote:

relvinian wrote:In reality its come to rvr land and be farmed by vets.

In any skill based game this will ALWAYS be the case. Unless you make it non-skill based.

All the server wipes and RA changes in the world will never change this fact.

How much SKILL is involved with a lvl 50 temped RR% toon killing a group of level 20 toons? Some sure but not enough to write home about. How much skill does it take to get a set group of 50's on voice and kill pugs? Not all that much, let us be honest.

The real skill is when equals fight each other. And there should be very little reward for greys, if any, just like you don't get anything when you kill lvl 20 mobs on your 50 toon.

"High risk, high reward". If you want to have %exp benefits (let it be DF or frontier zones) you need to be ready to face the chance to get wiped by enemy groups. If you're not feeling like it, there's a whole safe realm to level up your chars into.

Juri wrote:"High risk, high reward". If you want to have %exp benefits (let it be DF or frontier zones) you need to be ready to face the chance to get wiped by enemy groups. If you're not feeling like it, there's a whole safe realm to level up your chars into.

So clearly your one of the assholes that like ganking greys? Hmmmm no skill? Hmmmm just like being an ass and think you should be rewarded for it? Killing greys is a cowardly unskillful act and is bad enough without getting rps out of it, getting rewarded for being a cowardly asshole that has no skill is just stupid. I do not support it and I will say that anyone that supports rps for grey ganking is a cowardly asshole.

You're pretty annoying. I couldn't kill ****** anyway since I only play healing classes, but again, if you're in a RvR zone with your lvl13 char you're clearly playing with fire.

I see someone still doesn't get it.

Oh well, at least I tried taking this discussion to a higher level about game design instead of being about specifics.

Relvinian , it does do something FOR the community. I am sure you could see it if you wanted to.

I do not kill nor am for killing greys for RPs, but i think the bottom line is, the server is aiming for a specific patch level, and at this patch level these are the rules. I understand these things can be changed but at a certain point we change everything and it no longer classic DAOC, it is now a custom server. Whether its good or not is irrelevant from my perspective. Every kill is worth something, that makes sense.. Being killed as a lowbie, sucks.. but thats how it is.

I play a game called Ultima Online on a custom shard and for those familiar with it, it is the same thing.. kill anyone and anything almost anywhere. When you die, you not only die, but lose all your stuff and everything you worked for. Risk Reward in my opinion.

I am just glad we are making progress, lets play the game. If you do not support killing Greys, than dont do it. You give respect to their level and leave them be, they may do the same once they are high enough, or encounter another who happens to be lower than them. If this "pay it forward" method would continue atleast 65% of the time people would enjoy the server more knowing the community has respect for the younger characters, therefore actually makes people happy knowing what kind of community the server has.

Dont grey gank and consider yourself someone who gives a crap about this server and keeping those people around.

For me, Doesnt bother me getting killed out in Frontier or DF, especially if we don't own DF thats the risk i take for the Bonus XP. Plus its fun when your in the low 40's high 30's with a group and your killing 50's who think they can take you all on.

Grey should be no rps, no bounties, no killcount and no xp.
Remember grey for 50 is <=35.

Same as mobs where grey is no xp and no loot.

Why is there even a discussion about that?

[edit]
Kill greys if you want, sometimes you might want to kill a grey healer but in no way reward grey killing with anything!

Trishin wrote:I see someone still doesn't get it.

Oh well, at least I tried taking this discussion to a higher level about game design instead of being about specifics.

Relvinian , it does do something FOR the community. I am sure you could see it if you wanted to.

Someone still doesn't get it. You guys ignored your player base last time and seem to continue to ignore them.

I used to go to this Church and there was this one guy there who was always like let us pray about this. And you could pray all you want with the guy but it was always going to be whatever way he wanted.

Seems like we can have a discussion forum and discuss anything we like but it is always going to be the way the devs want it.

When people don't like something and have no voice they tend to vote with their feet.

Surprised there ist still that discussion about grey being worth rp.
Of course they are, they are enemies and their names are shown in red

Seems a fairly simple solution to be not ganked in frontierzones: don't level in frontierzones.

If you really are so keen on that great xp ask a bunch of level 50's to watch out for you/your group.
Some level 50's might even consider staying close to these lowbie groups to get some rp's...
Don't whine though if you get killed before your lvl 50 friends get that grey ganker...you choose to be in a big boy RVR zone.

In any case, its easily avoidable to be disturbed while levelling... go and level in "normal" zones.

cheers

im just throwing random numbers here because its been a year now and I forget but imo when it comes to xp and where people should go to xp should be something like....

Darkness Falls xp - 125%
yer big boyz earned it for the realm. if u get killed here ur either worth rp or the other realms think uve had yer share of bonus xp and its their realms turn

Battleground xp - 110%
good xp with risk of getting into fights. all is fair game here, something I like about bgs. u can either retaliate or xp somewhere else. most groups retaliate and it escalates to a keep take

Frontiers xp - 105%
if ur REALLY aching for extra xp u can come here. Better be careful, if ur worth rp or someone really doesn't want u to be +1 extra person to deal with in RvR, ur guna die

Realm xp - 100%
safe and efficient. 8 man groups are easy to build and maintain., theres always a demand for xp and loot.




Lastly on the grey ganking issue, greys shouldn't be worth anything. XP/RP/Stats only when killing a light green player. If someone wants to grey kill, well sucks for the grays, but the killer should not be rewarded anything for it.

Trishin wrote:I see someone still doesn't get it.

Oh well, at least I tried taking this discussion to a higher level about game design instead of being about specifics.

Relvinian , it does do something FOR the community. I am sure you could see it if you wanted to.

Without pointing out specifics then how do we get anywhere. If we can't explain why we agree or disagree with something then whats the point?

Question is without RvR xp bonus would you still make grays worth RPS even though none would xp in the frontiers/df? Try it, I'm pretty sure we don't need to get into specifics about that.

On XP while dead, You do know it further separates Elite players from casuals right? You do know Casual players who can't zerg will just Resort to Gray ganking (or log) right? You do know that mostly the elites in each realm will reach High RR right? You do know that it will be Uthgard 1.0 all over again with 2 or 3 groups in each realm RvRing right? You should start listening to players who actually play and rvr frequently and stop reading imaginary facts, OK!

I consider myself an elite player as I mostly RvR a lot, RvR with other who do, and contribute to the server. How you might ask, well I make video's, players like them, and end up joining the server. I take no credit as other players have also unconsciously advertised for Uthgard through their video's.

These changes don't effect me, they effects the other 90% of the server who don't always run the best setups, or play with other great players, or have lot's of time to play. Truth is I want Uthgard to Succeed as I support Casual players as they make the bulk of the server. One things for sure, If the Casuals leave then so do the Elites, but it's not the other way around. The Server can still flourish without Elite players.... True story.