Moondragon1 wrote:Well, I think the main reason people want X to be implemented despite this classic server patch level is because the game, in certain areas, was improved over time. The trick would be what improvements that were made in the game that benefited the community without changing the dynamic of RvR? ... the game overall went downhill with ToA and other stuff, but there were modest improvements in the game in other areas. Wouldn't it be wise to discuss what those modest improvements were, if they would have an impact on the RvR dynamic, and then consider it as an option?

My thoughts exactly.

I like to bump my question for grey kill titles.
How about:

Wrath of the Weak - 1k grey kills
Fearless Defender - 5k grey kills
Couraged Scourge - 15k
Danger Dave - 35k
Relvinians Anger - 50k
Bamans Fellow - 100k

jecs110 wrote:

Moondragon1 wrote:Well, I think the main reason people want X to be implemented despite this classic server patch level is because the game, in certain areas, was improved over time. The trick would be what improvements that were made in the game that benefited the community without changing the dynamic of RvR? ... the game overall went downhill with ToA and other stuff, but there were modest improvements in the game in other areas. Wouldn't it be wise to discuss what those modest improvements were, if they would have an impact on the RvR dynamic, and then consider it as an option?

My thoughts exactly.

+1 They "should" take a look.

Im beginning to fear that these forum warriors never actually played daoc at patch 1.65 or before.. sure seems like that...

riad wrote:I like to bump my question for grey kill titles.
How about:

Wrath of the Weak - 1k grey kills
Fearless Defender - 5k grey kills
Couraged Scourge - 15k
Danger Dave - 35k
Relvinians Anger - 50k
Bamans Fellow - 100k

Thank you, made my day .

shurick wrote:

Moondragon1 wrote:


So, in a nutshell, the game overall went downhill with ToA and other stuff, but there were modest improvements in the game in other areas. Wouldn't it be wise to discuss what those modest improvements were, if they would have an impact on the RvR dynamic, and then consider it as an option?

You are missing the fact that it was discussed and decided by the people in charge of this server to go with patch level 1.65. I am sorry some of you were not consulted on this matter. This discussion can go on forever with people arguing about classes, abilities and server changes. Fact is we are going ahead with 1.65, end of the story.

I've played 2 paladins, champ and few other "gimp" classes on Percival between 2001 and 2003 reaching as high as RR8+, had tons of fun doing it, never had any problems getting into high end succesful rvr groups where I was always welcomed, and made tons of friends. All this bullshit about ungroupable hybrid classes is a myth to me. I also managed to never step my foot into low level rvr bg and unable to see how this R1L9 rank limit or level limit affects anything in the grand scheme of things. Sorry to all the Uthgard 2.0 haters around here, but we must have played different games back in 2003.

Thing is: people are not 200X anymore. Ever second hand pac/sham/bard/druid/sorc knows how to communicate and cycle cc timers these days. So yes hybrids ARE a problem (today more than back in the stone ages). Another thing: how many groups ran on endu pots back in 2003. I can tell you: zero(0). Hybrids have been the suck back then (I played a thane/reaver in set groups). Don't get me wrong I had a lot of fun, but I would not repeat it.

Moondragon1 wrote:
Well, I think the main reason people want X to be implemented despite this classic server patch level is because the game, in certain areas, was improved over time. The trick would be what improvements that were made in the game that benefited the community without changing the dynamic of RvR? ... the game overall went downhill with ToA and other stuff, but there were modest improvements in the game in other areas. Wouldn't it be wise to discuss what those modest improvements were, if they would have an impact on the RvR dynamic, and then consider it as an option?

My thoughts as well. I even thought NF was a massive improvement over OF, but obviously that's not going to happen.

"You are missing the fact that it was discussed and decided by the people in charge of this server to go with patch level 1.65. I am sorry some of you were not consulted on this matter. This discussion can go on forever with people arguing about classes, abilities and server changes. Fact is we are going ahead with 1.65, end of the story."

And? And? We are arguing about 10% if you lose 50% of your population over 10% that makes you an idiot.

Minor changes, a day or two of coding. It is nothing compared to the 15 months they spent working on the server that will result in less than favorable outcome.

Hey, other than some forum posts I'm not really out any time or money. It is their time and money.

Exploder wrote:

Moondragon1 wrote:
Well, I think the main reason people want X to be implemented despite this classic server patch level is because the game, in certain areas, was improved over time. The trick would be what improvements that were made in the game that benefited the community without changing the dynamic of RvR? ... the game overall went downhill with ToA and other stuff, but there were modest improvements in the game in other areas. Wouldn't it be wise to discuss what those modest improvements were, if they would have an impact on the RvR dynamic, and then consider it as an option?

My thoughts as well. I even thought NF was a massive improvement over OF, but obviously that's not going to happen.

You can play in NF on live! Or even other freeshards as well i think....

relvinian wrote:"You are missing the fact that it was discussed and decided by the people in charge of this server to go with patch level 1.65. I am sorry some of you were not consulted on this matter. This discussion can go on forever with people arguing about classes, abilities and server changes. Fact is we are going ahead with 1.65, end of the story."

And? And? We are arguing about 10% if you lose 50% of your population over 10% that makes you an idiot.

Minor changes, a day or two of coding. It is nothing compared to the 15 months they spent working on the server that will result in less than favorable outcome.

Hey, other than some forum posts I'm not really out any time or money. It is their time and money.

When will you learn to use the quote button? Just being curious!

dabri0n wrote:
Thing is: people are not 200X anymore. Ever second hand pac/sham/bard/druid/sorc knows how to communicate and cycle cc timers these days. So yes hybrids ARE a problem (today more than back in the stone ages). Another thing: how many groups ran on endu pots back in 2003. I can tell you: zero(0). Hybrids have been the suck back then (I played a thane/reaver in set groups). Don't get me wrong I had a lot of fun, but I would not repeat it.

It is not as bad as you appear it to be. Didnt you just say you had lot of fun too?? Isn't it what its all about at the end of the day? This isnt a sport, its a way for people to re-live those memories of old school daoc, get back to the areas no longer available on live server like old frontiers and classic daoc expirience. I had great time playing hybrids and would do it again without a doubt.

Also, noone said anything yet about Hybrids not having Det on Uth 2.0. I suggest we wait for official word on this. It wont change much for me tho. If they put in Det, i will take it as a bonus, but this will not affect my decision to roll a hybrid class.

"When will you learn to use the quote button? Just being curious!"

What? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

shurick wrote:It is not as bad as you appear it to be. Didnt you just say you had lot of fun too?? Isn't it what its all about at the end of the day? This isnt a sport, its a way for people to re-live those memories of old school daoc, get back to the areas no longer available on live server like old frontiers and classic daoc expirience. I had great time playing hybrids and would do it again without a doubt.

Also, noone said anything yet about Hybrids not having Det on Uth 2.0. I suggest we wait for official word on this. It wont change much for me tho. If they put in Det, i will take it as a bonus, but this will not affect my decision to roll a hybrid class.

had ... HAD FUN
back then ppl didnt knew how to cc ... how to peel ... how to utilize ns ... how to handle melee grps with a caster grps ... ppl back then were BAD if you ever would let any of that grps from that time compete with a random pug from today they would prolly just loose because the understanding of the game evolved to a point where just playing it without thinking about it will lead to frustration ... something that was fun back then is pure frustration today

srsly people who play 8vs8 today dont play it for the sake of nostalgia ... they play it because they like the setting
they(we) dont want 20 new bottons to save mistakes they made they want the hard way where mistakes were actually punished by the enemy not like its on live where you just press that 1 button and your overextended healer is unkillable runs back gets healed to 100% and its gg ... dunno why there are ppl who actually believe we want anything like back in these days of 2003 ... anyone who does 8vs8 today would just rage in any of that grps from back then because of all that mistakes wich were made even before the grp left the own tk and these grps were on a serious basis not "just for fun"

i may sound to some like im taking this whole gaming way to serious ... but after all everyone plays the game for another reason and i dont like to waste the 6-10 hours a week i got for gaming with nonesence like running a not competitive setup in a competitive enviroment dunno how some1 cant understand that

Apologies if this has already been tackled by many others but these really made me laugh out loud.

Satiah wrote:1L9... We are supposed to run in big RvR with 1L9. With Old RAs. Where half the classes need to pay a 4 skillpoint tax to get the useless +12 stats RA as prerequisite for other RAs since without them you're basically crippled.

devilsfury wrote:It becomes a problem when the population drops to 200-400 players and all that's left are the old elite players. Every newcommer will be faced with rr8+ chars and stay well clear of RvR. Which will make RvR boring, more players stop RvR'ing, etc. Everyone who has played DAoC over the years on dying servers has seen it.

Uthgard was terrible for the new player after Thid was removed and just before it stopped.

Old RA's might add to that problem (more expensive for active abilities). Which will make the RR gap even greater.

I said this 1000 times when everyone wanted to go with Old RA's and Old BG's. Yes, I think lowering the BG's to 1L9 MAY increase the amount of BG players into RvR, but I think the reality is that people will just twink faster. So now instead of taking a toon to 50 and 4L2 before hanging it up and making another, you will have people get to 1L9 and lvl 35 and reroll. The funny thing is casual players were the ones wanting Old Ra's so bad. Because it was supposedly so much easier to get the main abilities needed and the 30 minute timers made it harder for high RR groups/solo's to dump RA's every fight. I kept reminding people about only having 9 points to use after BG's. I kept reminding people about the pre-requisites for those same "cheap" ra's. Now those players get their wish and suddenly realize the writing on the wall. Guess what guys? Just like before with Uthgard 1.0, you will have to adapt and adjust. You reap what you sow.

Trishin wrote:

Ok, you might be right at the beginning it will be that way, but after a while you ´ll see some changes when the elitists rise in realmranks,- new players/chars that start with 1L9 in their rand00m-solution-groups their frontier career, will in majority,- not rise and survive.

That doesn't change the fact that the number of people below RR5 in the frontiers will increase.

Before:
- New character was made, capped 4L2 in BGs before hitting 50
- Result: new characters had to RvR from 4L2 to 5L0

Now:
- New character is made, capped at 1L9 in BGs before hitting 50
- Result: new characters have to RvR from 1L9 to 5L0

This will take longer (than 1L9 to 5L0 compared to 1L9 to 5L0) and hence will increase the amount of time a new character is in the frontiers at a lower RR (below RR5)

No matter if it's a new character from a veteran player, or from a new DAoC player.

Obviously a veteran player is at an advantage just like a player in a set guild. However that is the benefit of being a veteran player or a an 8v8 guild player. No matter what we do these players will have an advantage over casual players.

This is why casual players need to zerg up, which is much easier if veteran players take their hand and help them build a zerg.

I agree Trishin. Great response, but your best line was "No matter what we do these players will have an advantage over casual players." I have been saying this since before the server reset. All these new and casual players (yes some veterans also loved it) were excited about a reset because in their minds it was going to put them on equal footing with the veterans. I think those players are getting a rude awakening. They now realize that the run from 1L9 to 5L0 is going to be MUCH harder than 4L2 to 5L0.

Cracks me up! Not that it will really change anything. Like I said above, the players who BG twinked and complained about a lack of casuals in RvR will do the same and in a matter of years you will have the exact same major issue that plagued Uthgard 1.0. Low RvR population.

hyshash wrote:

shurick wrote:It is not as bad as you appear it to be. Didnt you just say you had lot of fun too?? Isn't it what its all about at the end of the day? This isnt a sport, its a way for people to re-live those memories of old school daoc, get back to the areas no longer available on live server like old frontiers and classic daoc expirience. I had great time playing hybrids and would do it again without a doubt.

Also, noone said anything yet about Hybrids not having Det on Uth 2.0. I suggest we wait for official word on this. It wont change much for me tho. If they put in Det, i will take it as a bonus, but this will not affect my decision to roll a hybrid class.

had ... HAD FUN
back then ppl didnt knew how to cc ... how to peel ... how to utilize ns ... how to handle melee grps with a caster grps ... ppl back then were BAD if you ever would let any of that grps from that time compete with a random pug from today they would prolly just loose because the understanding of the game evolved to a point where just playing it without thinking about it will lead to frustration ... something that was fun back then is pure frustration today

srsly people who play 8vs8 today dont play it for the sake of nostalgia ... they play it because they like the setting
they(we) dont want 20 new bottons to save mistakes they made they want the hard way where mistakes were actually punished by the enemy not like its on live where you just press that 1 button and your overextended healer is unkillable runs back gets healed to 100% and its gg ... dunno why there are ppl who actually believe we want anything like back in these days of 2003 ... anyone who does 8vs8 today would just rage in any of that grps from back then because of all that mistakes wich were made even before the grp left the own tk and these grps were on a serious basis not "just for fun"

i may sound to some like im taking this whole gaming way to serious ... but after all everyone plays the game for another reason and i dont like to waste the 6-10 hours a week i got for gaming with nonesence like running a not competitive setup in a competitive enviroment dunno how some1 cant understand that

this whole discussion always seems to just focus around RvR and pugs vs almighty veteran 8mans (as also RonELuvv's post above mine just underlines).... seems these are the most vocal players in the community...not necessarily the majority I think

I have a few of points on this

1.
there is PvE in DAoC:
some people actually enjoy doing that, especially pre-1.8ish PvE is challenging, soloing is hard (supporting the group building aspect), most quests are interesting and/or difficult, PvE in frontiers is dangerous because even as a lowbie you will get killed for rp's.

2.
crafting:
some love it, many need it, enough said

3.
there is some fun to be had between pugs (apparently doomed to have no fun and leave server immediately after reopening) and veteran 8man groups (apparently little fun because its so boring to kill pugs) in RvR:
pugs with a couple of experienced players, pugs/players who just have fun experiencing big time RvR and which don't mind getting killed while learning the game, zergs, running around solo/duo and just add fights trying to get a kill, stealthing around OF to reach enemy lowbie lvl grounds with your low RR archer trying to get a shot or two off to get a couple of rp's

...and much more

cheers