Trishin wrote:If you really take some time to think about this, you most likely will find out why.

And I am surprised no one has taken this argument to the table for everyone that complains about being killed in RvR zones. Surely some of you players must have realized what this game mechanic does.

Gray ganking is fine (even though I don't agree), you should be able to kill an enemy in a frontier zone whether their gray or not. The fact that you not only promote Frontier Exp but allow Grays being worth RPs is just sadistic.... You honestly want people just constantly ganking Grays in frontier/DF and don't even dare call that RvR... Why not promote RvR through Keep takes, bonus rps in certain zones, RvR missions, you could even setup PL spots in frontier (I actually thought this was nice as it draws lot's of action). Why must legit none PL groups who decide to Level the "Intended" way be punished so hard?

It's like hey come to frontier, XP, but people will hunt you, kill you in 1shot, and Get rewards for it.... Great Idea. It's not about complaining about dying in an RvR zone, it's about getting rewards for something Gray! Like someone said before Gray items don't raise skill, Gray mobs don't give you anything, and Gray items aren't worth using.... You are just breaking the trend man..

Seksy wrote:

Trishin wrote:If you really take some time to think about this, you most likely will find out why.

And I am surprised no one has taken this argument to the table for everyone that complains about being killed in RvR zones. Surely some of you players must have realized what this game mechanic does.

Gray ganking is fine (even though I don't agree), you should be able to kill an enemy in a frontier zone whether their gray or not. The fact that you not only promote Frontier Exp but allow Grays being worth RPs is just sadistic.... You honestly want people just constantly ganking Grays in frontier/DF and don't even dare call that RvR... Why not promote RvR through Keep takes, bonus rps in certain zones, RvR missions, you could even setup PL spots in frontier (I actually thought this was nice as it draws lot's of action). Why must legit none PL groups who decide to Level the "Intended" way be punished so hard?

It's like hey come to frontier, XP, but people will hunt you, kill you in 1shot, and Get rewards for it.... Great Idea. It's not about complaining about dying in an RvR zone, it's about getting rewards for something Gray! Like someone said before Gray items don't raise skill, Gray mobs don't give you anything, and Gray items aren't worth using.... You are just breaking the trend man..

Personally, I am good with grey ganking. I won't do it myself, as that's just not my MO, but I think it should be dangerous in the frontier. It adds to the value of the game, of the experience....which is ultimately what we are all going for here in some manner or another. No risk, no reward is what I think Trish is insinuating here. And if it gets people exploring other frontier zones so there can be a good flow of RVR action, then that is great.

More than anything else, I think that the disparity of RVR on Uth 1.0 led to its decline...all the nerfs that happened in a 4-month row were the disease that sickened Uth. But ultimately it was the lack of RVR (and the hope that Origins could offer a better RVR scene - HAH!) that finally killed off the population before the GMs decided to take it down.

Just M2Cs. And as always, LLU2.0.

Alpha

Alphaone wrote:Personally, I am good with grey ganking. I won't do it myself, as that's just not my MO, but I think it should be dangerous in the frontier. It adds to the value of the game, of the experience....which is ultimately what we are all going for here in some manner or another. No risk, no reward is what I think Trish is insinuating here. And if it gets people exploring other frontier zones so there can be a good flow of RVR action, then that is great.

More than anything else, I think that the disparity of RVR on Uth 1.0 led to its decline...all the nerfs that happened in a 4-month row were the disease that sickened Uth. But ultimately it was the lack of RVR (and the hope that Origins could offer a better RVR scene - HAH!) that finally killed off the population before the GMs decided to take it down.

Just M2Cs. And as always, LLU2.0.

Alpha

I understand that Uthgard had a lack of RvR incentives but I doubt Making grays give RPS will improve/worsen RvR action LoL. Honestly RvR should be focused around Keeps, Emain(most popular zone), and DF. The more you spread out RvR the worse it will be in Old Frontiers.... You have groups running all the way to DL to kill people at ants, they run all the way to FS to kill players at giants, and all the way to Uppland to kill players at Yetti's. Honestly spreading out RvR in Old frontier is a bad idea and this probably wont happen in prime time, but during later hours instead of groups running normal routes they might decide to look for Exp groups.

Sure it could be a reason if the action is low, but that's why there are keeps. Taking keeps is a way to bring the action to the frontiers and you wont make more Rps running all around the frontier killing lvl20-30's...... It doesn't Improve rvr but it might decrease the RvR for 50's who actually want to fight other 50's. Solo players camping Low level exp spots instead of AMG is just one reason why it's just not a smart game design.

From my experience Genesis AMG was empty and all the spots people leveled always had 2-3 stealthers camping 5 grays and 1 yellow. I'm guessing after they killed them, they would log, do something else, and then log back later. By the time you would run there to kill them they where already gone, only to reappear 20 mins later to kill them again. Those people could be giving action to other 50's but instead they choose to take an easy route. These aren't just stealthers who did this, the smallman and even FG at time would do this too.

Again, I'm not saying gray ganking shouldn't be allowed, but it definitely shouldn't give Realm points!

It's bait and switch. New players come to rvr land and fight!

In reality its come to rvr land and be farmed by vets.

Just gets worse as time goes by if you allow grey ganking and no rps while dead.

As the players wise up they log and quit the server.

Getting farmed by vets is the spirit of the old games
Match making systems watered down the whole experience to everyone wins with zero effort jipi.
Glad there is none in daoc and if you dont pan camera and turn with your keyboard you will die simple as that.
There is still an easy solution: zerg up

Great news! Longing for the relaunch!

If the player numbers would reach a constant level of >1000, and the number of players who participate in rvr increase compared to uthgard 1.0, we will be happy if the action spreads across all rvr zones.
I mean, I like zerging and adding, but I also like to have at least the chance for single grp fights from time to time.

Everyone is still very narrow in their analysis of allowing / rewarding grey killing. Try look a bit on the bigger picture. What does it do to a community to have this game mechanic? What does it do to the overall feel of the game?

Instead of focusing on specifics such as "action moved from AMG to level spots". Because such a change doesn't mean much compared to the big picture. People are still out there, they are just sitting at location X Y Z instead of location A B C. (i.e. lvl spots in frontier zones instead of DF)

Trishin wrote:Everyone is still very narrow in their analysis of allowing / rewarding grey killing. Try look a bit on the bigger picture. What does it do to a community to have this game mechanic? What does it do to the overall feel of the game?

Instead of focusing on specifics such as "action moved from AMG to level spots". Because such a change doesn't mean much compared to the big picture. People are still out there, they are just sitting at location X Y Z instead of location A B C. (i.e. lvl spots in frontier zones instead of DF)

I totally understand, it does give a sense of danger to players if they decide to level in frontier/DF zones. The constant fear of being attacked keeps your blood pumping. Not only are you fighting for your life vs red/purple mobs you must deal with the enemy. It tells the player he's in an RvR zone maybe bringing back Old Feeling.

The funny part is that this wont happen at all the first few months as most players will focus on leveling themselves and gearing up. Not until the second or third wave of New players/alts will we start seeing gray ganking picking up. A year after release (or before) it's at full force. With many things like crossrealm, IRC, forums, and TS not only will players know where to look but where there are players. I hope I'm wrong, but most (not All) players will rather kill grays then fight Elite guilds of High RR players. Even groups might deviate Away from keeps/Emain to avoid these players to kill the lowlevels. Then they do what happens on Genesis, they come, kill the low level group, then just suicide to guards.

Like Holsten said, Sure maybe with 1k+ players this might not matter, but out of all those players how many will actively RvR? 100? maybe less? My point is when you start giving reasons for people to move away from the 50rvr and still get rps in another way most casuals will do this to avoid big boy rvr.

My theory is don't make grays give RPS and they will soon con Yellow. There are plenty of other area's like summoners Hall where plenty of lower level ganking will happen, at least these players can somewhat defend themselves. I talk about the players in the mid 20s just killing super low level mobs like Fiends or yetti or badgers... Why not allow them to reach a Con level? I'm sure once they reach 36+ they will be killed plenty and Experience that RvR feeling. At least by then it might become challenging for the attacker.

When you stop being so imaginative and see what will really happen then maybe you will understand.

Why are we discussing missions or titles, both are patch 1.75 changes and way beyond the Uthgard patch level.
Greys won't count for missions because they are not implemented
Greys won't count for titles because they are not implemented
Problem solved in the spirit of 1.65

I agree, grays should not give rps, that's just wrong. Poor guys should be able to level in peace without worrying about some selfish monster killing them for a few rps. It's despicable.

Also, why are we changing the xp system to allow PLing? o.O Doesn't that kinda destroy the community? I hate playing on servers where as soon as a guy gets level 5 he starts spamming @ necros/cabbies to please PL his toon. Old school leveling is much better. If someone joins up a few months after launch, they're gonna have a harder time finding a group and consequently you're gonna have all these wonderful zones you worked hard on empty of xpers cause everyone will just be getting PL'd.

I can always remember being killed in RvR zones by those of much higher level. I played on roleplaying servers so I expected death if I wandered in certain places, no matter what level I was. Additionally, If they are from an enemy realm, I would like the option to kill them without breaking the rules or having the act be considered wrong or worse, taboo. Whether or not I receive points for such kills or not is of little consequence in my mind, although it does make sense to me, it is an enemy realm member you just slew.

In each realm there are many places to level without fear of running into the enemy.

PL won't be as crazy as it is on lolgins so I don't really see the problem with it.

PLing will be slightly more cumbersome on Uthgard considering you can't dual log a focus puller + heal class. It won't eliminate it, for sure, but it might cut down on it some.

Having BGs for most of the leveling experience will help level folks up as well, new and old. Most people play daoc to kill other players. Even if they do have someone to PL them, they will still want to go to the BGs to murder folks.

One of the things that makes daoc great is the ability to level up in different ways.

Austerim wrote:PL won't be as crazy as it is on lolgins so I don't really see the problem with it.

True it wont because Genesis promotes PL, Also as I remember on Uthgard the mobs instantly agro so Body pulling wont work. With the right incentives for grouping maybe the intended way will probably be better. Also we can't forget about the summoners hall zerg, that was great exp 40-49(which are arguably the hardest levels). I don't really want the same experience as on Genesis and would prefer the old Uthgard way tbh. It was much slower but I made many friends with new players through the old Uthgard way. While on Genesis I would just afk, come back in 2hours, and ding 44. There where some legit groups who would run to the frontiers, only to be ganked, and camped 24/7 after that. Whether or not PL will dominate the leveling system (as it did on Genesis) all depends on The staff.