Hi everyone and sorry for the wall of text that this will produce.

I started here recently with a couple of friends after quitting DAoC right after the Ywain cluster.
I was a rr11 pac healer on pryd who focused on 8vs8 and loved it above any other game that I´ve played in my entire life. The feeling of roaming around and getting INC from another fg just feels awesome for some reason.

My friends have all played DAoC before but they dont have a ton of experience with 8vs8 so we have a lot to learn as a group and we also didnt start as 8 (6) so our setups arent always optimal. To be honest, not having cure NS and almost being forced to run with a skald due to the current state of the server makes it pretty hard to make good 8vs8 setups as mid. I will talk more about that later.

Anyway the issue that we are experiencing with this server is that it seems to be literally only high RR set groups that roam as 8. Pretty much every single other alb and hib group will go for keeps only and its not uncommon for them to try to run away if they dont have more players than their enemy AKA they would never iniate an 8vs8 fight.
When we lose an 8vs8 fight vs a high RR group we almost always go back and try again a couple of times and try to think of what we could do differently. We do this even though we know that we have RR 2-3s only and they have RR 6-9 with great setups for 8vs8.
The way I remember DAoC is that before you reached the top it was actually quite fine to lose 100% of the times vs some of the best groups on the server because you could still find fights vs other groups at least as often. With the coward mentality of the average player on Uthgard this is however not possible. I have never seen a DAoC server with this mentality in my life. People dont even roam in common RvR roaming zones like emain because they just want to zerg keeps all day long either way.

I do understand that the average player in DAoC has somewhat of an interest of big keep fights and huge armies and all of that, I certainly doubt that the way they want to play the game is killing guards, building rams and hitting doors over and over and over again. It is also possible that these players might be "slightly" frustrated at animist shrooms at this point.

The population balance seems horrible at the server also. I know that hibernia currently has all of the 6 relics but I still feel that midgard is largely overpopulated. Whenever mid has DF there is like 80-100 mids in it, when mid takes over DF from alb or hib you can´t find a damn soul to kill. Perhaps it could be a good idea to allow people who which to use the realm transfer function to lower populated realms to start at the same level as their highest character on their previous realm or something like that?

I don´t know what could change the server to the better. I spoke to some veterans and they say that the server didnt use to be like this, it has just gotten very bad lately. I dont know what should be done to change this coward mentality but I know that DAoC is a game where the players themselves decide how things will run. So how do we get normal people to start roaming again? Is a BG for level 50s below RR 5 a decent choice? Do we host roaming events where people can sign up to roam for 8vs8 in a zone and maybe try to divide it so that there is one high RR zone and one low RR zone incase thats what people want?
Can we somehow make emain macha to what it used to be back in OF live days? Give me your suggestions.

And as a last note, seriously just implement cure NS. I know that you don´t want to do it because you are afraid that if you make one change to 1.65 balance people will yell about other changes and while I understand that argument it really just doesn´t hold. There is a simple reason of why there was no cure NS early in DAoC, people hadnt discovered it. For one hibs hadnt understood how extremly powerful the light eld was and tended to run with mana specced elds and so on. A red NS lasts for around 2 minutes and completely destroys all range abilities. Quickly after the release of the classic servers on live mythic realized that in the current meta of the game u can no longer have DAoC without cure NS, therefore they gave the mend spec a cure NS so that you could have it even without master levels. Not having cure NS means that every setup has to be created in a way so that it can play around nearsight.

Yeah, there are balance issues. One can hope something changes at some point.

Till then the fat just gets fatter.

I have no hope for balancing on Uthgard. Big parts of the community fights for too long against windmills and i personal gave up to try to speak with staff, same as many others which just stop to play on Uthgard.

Till Uthgard´s target and reason for not to change issue´s is a patchlevel, there is simply no balance.
Example:
1: If a player not made a upgrade for a UI, we would had no Mezz / Desease / Poison / NS marks on groupwindow, just because its not 1.65

2: If different players not build own discord channel, we would have no lfg channel, because its not 1.65

Enjoy what we have for free, make friends or meet old ones and fight for your realm, i guess thats the only recipe which work to play on Uthgard.

Roxxor wrote:I have no hope for balancing on Uthgard. Big parts of the community fights for too long against windmills and i personal gave up to try to speak with staff, same as many others which just stop to play on Uthgard.

Till Uthgard´s target and reason for not to change issue´s is a patchlevel, there is simply no balance.
Example: If a player not made a upgrade for a UI, we still had no mezz / Desease / Poison / NS marks on groupwindow, just because its not 1.65

Enjoy what we have for free, make friends or meet old ones and fight for your realm, i guess thats the only recipe which work to play on Uthgard.

Not sure what u are talking about. I have played DAoC since just before SI release and I have no memory of mezz, diseas and poison not showing on group bars. NS never showed though, u could just make macros for when you wanted a cure if you didnt have voice com.

Roxxor wrote:1: If a player not made a upgrade for a UI, we would had no Mezz / Desease / Poison / NS marks on groupwindow, just because its not 1.65

Or groupmembers endo showing.

How does cure NS help the weakenr realms albion and hibernia against the higher populated realm midgard that are known to run tankgrps with 2-3 healer most of the time? ^^

It seems you minsunderstood one thing of this server and of What DAoC is now :

Ils just a little minority who are competitive like you seem to be, many ppl, the core of this server dont care at all about elitist 8v8 fights without and adds or some rules made only by elistists players.

Many of us just wanna log in and are happy to get in the zerg, follow the lead instructions and make some rps hitting keeps or foghting against other zerg.

I see it everyday on Albion, Splitquick, Poler, Maxisto, Romu, Topenga open BGs and make happy every casual gamers who can have fun

We are not 20 years old gamers in 5k populated server anymore where « who has the biggest » is an achievement.

( and i sais that even if I personnaly love to roam 8 man (or 16 during evening) with my guildies )

Chamst wrote:

Roxxor wrote:I have no hope for balancing on Uthgard. Big parts of the community fights for too long against windmills and i personal gave up to try to speak with staff, same as many others which just stop to play on Uthgard.

Till Uthgard´s target and reason for not to change issue´s is a patchlevel, there is simply no balance.
Example: If a player not made a upgrade for a UI, we still had no mezz / Desease / Poison / NS marks on groupwindow, just because its not 1.65

Enjoy what we have for free, make friends or meet old ones and fight for your realm, i guess thats the only recipe which work to play on Uthgard.

Not sure what u are talking about. I have played DAoC since just before SI release and I have no memory of mezz, diseas and poison not showing on group bars. NS never showed though, u could just make macros for when you wanted a cure if you didnt have voice com.

And i never played live but Uthgard and there was in the beginning of Uth2 no coloured marks and endu in groupwindow.
I dont know, and to be honest i dont care what was on 1.65 or any state in the game. Patchlevel are the opposite of balance

And im pretty sure in the SI age there was no cure NS.

Vick wrote:It seems you minsunderstood one thing of this server and of What DAoC is now :

Ils just a little minority who are competitive like you seem to be, many ppl, the core of this server dont care at all about elitist 8v8 fights without and adds or some rules made only by elistists players.

Many of us just wanna log in and are happy to get in the zerg, follow the lead instructions and make some rps hitting keeps or foghting against other zerg.

I see it everyday on Albion, Splitquick, Poler, Maxisto, Romu, Topenga open BGs and make happy every casual gamers who can have fun

We are not 20 years old gamers in 5k populated server anymore where « who has the biggest » is an achievement.

( and i sais that even if I personnaly love to roam 8 man (or 16 during evening) with my guildies )

You seem to have no problem disparaging 8v8 players then admit you enjoy it as well? Maybe these "elitists" just want to have fun playing their preferred style of play.

I feel for the OP I wish I had some worthwhile advice for new groups other than hang in there it will get easier with realm rank and when relics return. Try playing during off hours 8v8 when competition is weaker and zerg during eu prime until rr5+

The 8 man population is the small minority of this server, the most obnoxious on the forum for sure, but the minority nonetheless

isocleas2 wrote:

Vick wrote:It seems you minsunderstood one thing of this server and of What DAoC is now :

Ils just a little minority who are competitive like you seem to be, many ppl, the core of this server dont care at all about elitist 8v8 fights without and adds or some rules made only by elistists players.

Many of us just wanna log in and are happy to get in the zerg, follow the lead instructions and make some rps hitting keeps or foghting against other zerg.

I see it everyday on Albion, Splitquick, Poler, Maxisto, Romu, Topenga open BGs and make happy every casual gamers who can have fun

We are not 20 years old gamers in 5k populated server anymore where « who has the biggest » is an achievement.

( and i sais that even if I personnaly love to roam 8 man (or 16 during evening) with my guildies )

You seem to have no problem disparaging 8v8 players then admit you enjoy it as well? Maybe these "elitists" just want to have fun playing their preferred style of play.

I really enjoy 8v8 but i Also like a lot zerg v zerg fights.

You can having fun in many ways on Uthgard but people like OP who Speaks disrepectfully about « coward mentality » just because players dont play like he wants them to play, are one of the reason DAoC is slowly but surely dying.

We are on a mmorpg not on a fps game, let people play how they like to.

Greetings, fellow Swede and Prydwen pleb.

I wish I had some good advice for you, but unfortunately there are none.

You are very late to the party. The only people still around who play 8v8 are people who have done it since the beginning, or at least have a set group of people who they play with. Which puts you at a disadvantage. You also mention that most of your friends are new to 8v8, which puts you even further down the disadvantage barrel.

You'll just have to stick it out. Try to dodge whichever area the high RR groups are running (this changes daily but it's usually Emain or Odin's), and go for easy kills or defend/attack keeps, until you feel ready.

About the coward problem, this is something that's always existed. Especially in Albion, where pretty much nobody does any RvR at all if it isn't part of the large, keep-taking zerg that shows up each day. There are actually RR7+ people in this zerg who have never once spent a minute doing any 8v8 RvR. That's how bad it is.

Right now Hibernia has most of the relics, this means that Hibernia comes out in FORCE pretty much every night. If Hibernia has no relics, you'll only see the 8man groups out running, because everyone else will be PvE'ing until somebody steals back the relics. This is how Hibernia works, which is different to how the Albion hive mind works.

The third issue you're having is you chose the wrong realm. Had you chosen Albion, and to some extent even Hibernia, you might've been able to get more fights. If you want 8v8 fights, playing AGAINST Midgard is your best bet, because they currently have the most PUGs running. Granted, you'll also then be facing a lot more high RR people, because most of the high RR people are playing in Midgard.

In short; just deal with it or move on. Nothing will change around here.

P.S. Maybe even consider running 16. Certain people who are RR11 today did it for a very long time and it worked out great for them!

Llaw wrote:About the coward problem, this is something that's always existed. Especially in Albion, where pretty much nobody does any RvR at all if it isn't part of the large, keep-taking zerg that shows up each day. There are actually RR7+ people in this zerg who have never once spent a minute doing any 8v8 RvR. That's how bad it is.

Right now Hibernia has most of the relics, this means that Hibernia comes out in FORCE pretty much every night. If Hibernia has no relics, you'll only see the 8man groups out running, because everyone else will be PvE'ing until somebody steals back the relics. This is how Hibernia works, which is different to how the Albion hive mind works.

Nice illustration of the problem.
Albs don't do much 8man groups? Must be they are cowards and can only zerg. Sure can't be any other reason for it.

Guilds have moved to Albion and done 8man groups, sure. But they all leave again before reaching very high RR.
Is that because they can't stand their cowardly realm mates, or because making 8mans work on Albion is hard work, especially if your stable sorc/minstrel quits and you need to find a good rep?
Chicken and Moo are the only ones who's run consistently the last 3 months? I mean a full guild, not the "pug" from Paper Daoc, Garbage and Trained Again.

No, lets just assume Albion somehow dulls the mind of those playing there, and makes them cowards in the process.

Through my years of DAoC playing I´ve heard of players who went from keep zerging to mostly 8vs8 but not so many have went from 8vs8 to zerging and said that they prefered the game better as zerging. That being said however, I do fully understand the desire to play the game for keeps, realm, big fights and relics. Although I don´t fully get it since like I said there is this class called animist who arguably should make that aspect of the game very imbalanced.

A lot of people here write things like the "The elitists are a minority." but that is exactly the point of this thread. That the issue is that for the first time in DAoC ever it has been almost impossible to roam and find 8vs8 fights among regular casual groups. I know that the server isnt as popular as DAoC was in its better days but certainly this was not the case at prydwen when there was ~1500 players logged in so I find it strange that 1000 players logged in on Uthgard would be any different.
There were keep raiders back in those days also the difference is how people move around the zones these days.
Then again my experience of prydwen as a DAoC server has always been much less zergy and more mature than all other DAoC servers that I´ve ever played on and losing that server mentality after Ywain cluster is also why I decided to quit back then.
So maybe my experience with DAoC comes from a server that was very different from the servers that people here were used to. Either way the biggest problem is not that people are zerging or doing keep raids, the problem is that people dont seem to wanna move around in the frontier at all unless they are on stick with at least one more group.
It used to be possible to run around the zergs and pick out smaller parts of it, sometimes 8vs14 fights on the side vs unorganized people or 8vs8 vs a non elite guild group and so on.

So maybe that is what should be discussed here, why do people suddenly think that you have to be elite to not follow the zerg?
Back in the glory days of Prydwen there was mostly just 3 "tier 1 groups", 1 from each realm. Maelstrom G1 (mid, there were 3 Maelstrom groups who each focused on 8vs8 G1 was the best one), Public enemies (alb), Eclipse (hib).
Before I started playing with the guys from Mael G1 I had years of almost never ever winning an 8vs8 vs the PE or Eclipse group but that was completely irrelevant because such a low % of the fights were against those groups. There were TONS of groups roaming by themselves without zerging and the population wasnt much bigger primetime than it is here and certainly not bigger in the frontier zones. You didn´t even have to be top 5 group in your own realm to have a ton of good fg vs fg action.

Done it all, and nothing really beats the fun of running a well-oiled smallman/8man, for me.

Problem is finding such people to run with, and finding fights that feels "even".
The other day we had a 6 man killing people from SF, because Emain had to much action and Albion had 2 fgm's roaming. First group we find is monkas fg. You can say there is some irony in us hunting small fish, and getting eaten by the shark, but with that happening people logged because there was no where to go as a 6man.

And that is the general story in Albion. You get 5 people, maybe 6, sometimes even 7, but really rare to find 8 people on the right classes AND who use disco/TS. So choices are... join zerg, or hunt xp areas (which is often Dodens) hoping to find smallman action/bad groups.
I've been in a few 8 man groups that had people talking, and working together, and it is a blast, but there is so far between this happening that I'm solo most of the time these days.