Dear Uthgard Players,

it is in our interest to establish a lively RvR-activity for you.

Sometimes the situation can be optimized and we are currently investigating at which points we can start to make the RvR-Experience more fun for everybody. The goal is to find out what brings people to play in RvR.


This topic shall act as a source for our input. You may also state what problems you currently face OR what you think could improve RvR.

[DISCLAIMER] The suggestions made here are no basis for claims of any kind. => Noone can demand the introduction of any feature just because it was proposed here.

There are certain rules to follow when writing in this thread:
1.) Stay STRICTLY on topic!
2.) There is a template-form for each post made here! Every post that holds new information has to be in accordance with this form!
3.) Criticism has to be constructive or will be taken out. If you criticise something you have to refer to the post you are criticising.
4.) Take this opportunity to give us input seriously. Immature behavior is not welcome.
5.) Don't ask for ridiculous stuff like Uthalis for RvR (Common sense) - Rather say what makes you enjoy RvR
6.) Keep your argumentation short and on the spot

Internally we have already discussed some factors that influence RvR-Activity and we'd like you to add your opinion in the following manner:

Template for every post

I) Start off with the variable that influences RvR-activity (problem/idea)
II) Explain your variable
III) State how to positively influence this variable (solution for the problem)
IV) further comments - you can write whatever you think needs to be said

EXAMPLE OF THE TEMPLATE:
I) Expected activity
II) One variable/factor is the belief to which extent the players expect activity in RvR. If they believe there is no activity they will less likely roam.
III) How to influence this variable positively: Transparancy of rvr activity - like kill messages and /relic /realm and the herald with burning keeps.
IV) further comments - you can write whatever you think needs to be said

Follow the rules of this topic - its not a normal discussion thread - as mentioned it serves for our input and go for it.

Best Regards

I dont get the staff, first you tell us your road map is 1.69 and remove as many customizations as you can. few weeks later you ask for custom solutions.

pweet wrote:I dont get the staff, first you tell us your road map is 1.69 and remove as many customizations as you can. few weeks later you ask for custom solutions.

You completely disregarded the rules I set up for this thread.
Secondly you must have misread or misunderstood something, despite my desperate efforts to show you that indeed this is no thread for "customizations" as you think.

Some players would maybe like to give us their opinion. Don't diminish their chances of doing so by writing such things. Your post will be deleted soon.

I) It takes forever for Hibs to get to emain.
II) Its far.
III) Make a port for them in the middle of Briefine. Near where the horse route currently ends
IV) This is obviously a good idea and should not take long to code

your finaly droping Strickt 1.69 as a Rule (in general) and asking for custom stuff? thank god
[Edit by Yondai] <-- Read the initial post! I didn't say so. Please read what's underlined and you will see what the goal of this thread is.

I) Having to Recraft / Wipe after half an Hour of rvr to refill on Recharges/Pots / Having to craft them almost every day
II) Due to Removal of Barrels and Recharge Stones, while not allowing Buffbots , you Forced Solo Players that want to compete to Regularly Wipe in RVR zones to restock on Pots and Charges. Combined with the limited Storage Capacity and High costs for Higher Houses / Recharges. (Solo, but also GRoup)Player Regularly have to Craft Single Potions to Stay Competetiv. I For example have to craft new Potions after only 2 Days of Casual RvRing (not more then 4 Hours).
III) Reintroduce Barrels / Rechargestones (or a Custom Buffbot NPC)
IV) I Know this is the Oldest Complaint in the book, but it Realy has a Huge affect on RvR as a solo Player and even Group Players with Mana Potions. I Personaly Still favor a Buffbot NPC for Bountypoints Since (Or a Buff all Item for 500BP/10 charges, needs to be tested/calculated whats reasonable). Other Posibility would be if you cant stand the idea to let everybody run buffed even though its needed to Compete in the competetiv Solo World : Make a Custom Rule (Similar to Horsespeed) that Every Buff Potion/Charge looses his effect in the RvR Area. Either Way it would Incurage More solo Players in RvR because the (realy Stupid) Timesinks were Gone. ATm if you have no inc for 10 Minutes you Rather Log then stay in RvR zones and try later to save some of those Charges/Potions. Also Keep Recharge Stones on BPs since with 10g/charge you force player that want to compete in 1vs1 to farm money regularly to keep the needed charges running (example calculation for me : 10 runs emain where i die instantly - 3 x 10g x 10 runs = 300g + 30 buff potions. just add another 100g with healpots and everything ). this means basicly 2 hours of rvr (a bit more since i still have to ride horse for ~ 5 minutes) i burn 400g. a normal evening with 4h of Solo Rvr costs me a astonish 800g. now substract some money you make killing players and the slightly too high pricetab on the pots and round it down generously to 500g. still 4h 500g means you need to come up with 1p after 2 days of RvR. not that easy to substain.

Ok so, some new servers are showing up. We all know Eden is pure ******, but Origins might be ok. I can understand the staff wanting to keep their players and all that, but don't go out of your way to satisfy people, it will just bring more ******. There are many, many different kinds of crybabies on uthgard, and most of them whine for no reason or just because they are selfish. Most of the players are willing to accept certain "nerfs", as long as it makes sense.

While I know that your goal is classic 1.69, game really has evolved over the years. Uthgard staff often ignored the fact that we do not have same population, player base or general interest in the game from the side of players like it was 8-11 years ago. Blue, Abydos, Trishin to say the least have ignored this with a huge dose of arrogance. Yes, believe it or not, this server does not have huge population, people that have as much time to play as they've had before and so on.

Also, the retarded mentality that comes from many group players and is supported by staff is to ignore solo players. Who the ****** cares what the game was intended to be? Many things turn out better than they were intended if we don't follow a strict code, right? Whether you want to believe it and accept it or not, solo classes do exist, and many group classes can be played as solo. It's a role playing game, correct? So people are allowed to be what they want...noble knights, proud wizards, lone warriors/avengers. Some prefer the group mentality, some like to run solo. Some players have a limited amount of time to play, or even much time but can't stay online for long at a time, so they realize that it's not fair that they join a group, just to leave soon. In the end, game is what you make of it.

Personally, I do not see the barrel removal as a nerf. People that play solo will take the time and make pots, arrange them and so on. However, we have many other time sinks we really don't need. Farming basic items for one. Also, there are many things that do not make sense at all. I am not sure if these kind of problems exist in alb/hib, but for example the midgard dragon bone bracer is something I was curious about. Now, many people have tried and cannot find the bracer in old logs or even on housing on live. Dragon drops currently on live are the tank bracer we have + caster bracer that replaced the old dragon bone bracer that drops no more. Both of these bracers have 1 min re-use timer on live. Abydos told me that I need to find proof the old one had a certain re-use timer, but I really can't find the bracer at all. By following simple logic, since the new ones have 1 min re-use this one should have it to. However, since we do not have definite proof, bracer is now set on default 3 min timer. It's quite funny, because both bracers having 1 min re-use on live + the item itself being a DRAGON drop, staff could have put the 2 min timer at least.

In short, most active players do not want things handed out to them. Most of them play on uthgard because you need to earn your levels and items. They are willing to accept the fact that making a good template often takes time and they do not want realm ranks over night. What players mostly want is for staff to meet them halfway. I am well aware that in some things we need to stick strictly to patch level, and most will accept that. However, there are many things that would speed up rvr(not instant action, cause part of the thrill in daoc is to roam and get inc., and I do believe most players here dislike the arena system) and would not kill the "classic" feeling. We have too many senseless time sinks, we stick blindly to the patch level in things that only annoy people, and affect the endgame rvr in a bad way, bringing absolutely nothing positive.

We need:

-less time sinks

-more communication between players and the staff

-equal treatment of 8v8/zerg/duo/small group/solo players and finding the solutions that all of them can agree with and respect

-stop the dogmatic view of classic, blindly following patch notes while completely disregarding common sense and how it actually affects the game

-GM's taking 1 week off a month to actually play the game and not work on the server, so they can see what problems players face


I'm sure people will think of other things as well. Also, many people from my alliance have asked me about item decay and other things, and I can tell you many people don't have a clue how will it be implemented and what's going on. Many of them don't understand English well, so it's a problem for me to fully explain. Maybe asking the moderators of german/italian/french/other sections to make a topic where players can post questions about all this and get detailed explanation in their own language would help. Naturally, not all of them read the forum, but even if one or two out of 30 read it, word will spread through chat/ts fast and people will be much better informed.

Sorry for straying off topic with the dragon bone bracer, but it's a pve example of not applying simple logic and making things harder for no reason, which we often face in rvr too.

I'll do you one better Foneb.

I) Charges/Pots being available necessitates having them up or being at a huge disadvantage. See the 75 s/c charge being necessary if you want to compete solo
II) You either have these items or get killed by people who do.
III) Remove ALL charged items/Buff pots. Leave heal/endo/power/pom pots as the only ones available
IV) This will encourage more people to go to emain solo. With no "i win" charges like 75 s/c 75 d/q available it will make for more interesting and fair fights.

svperstar wrote:I'll do you one better Foneb.

I) Charges/Pots being available necessitates having them up or being at a huge disadvantage. See the 75 s/c charge being necessary if you want to compete solo
II) You either have these items or get killed by people who do.
III) Remove ALL charged items/Buff pots. Leave heal/endo/power/pom pots as the only ones available
IV) This will encourage more people to go to emain solo. With no "i win" charges like 75 s/c 75 d/q available it will make for more interesting and fair fights.

Read my hole post wrote:... Other Posibility would be if you cant stand the idea to let everybody run buffed even though its needed to Compete in the competetiv Solo World : Make a Custom Rule (Similar to Horsespeed) that Every Buff Potion/Charge looses his effect in the RvR Area. ...

Raggnar wrote:Ok so, some new servers are showing up. We all know Eden is pure ******, but Origins might be ok. I can understand the staff wanting to keep their players and all that, but don't go out of your way to satisfy people, it will just bring more ******. There are many, many different kinds of crybabies on uthgard, and most of them whine for no reason or just because they are selfish. Most of the players are willing to accept certain "nerfs", as long as it makes sense.

While I know that your goal is classic 1.69, game really has evolved over the years. Uthgard staff often ignored the fact that we do not have same population, player base or general interest in the game from the side of players like it was 8-11 years ago. Blue, Abydos, Trishin to say the least have ignored this with a huge dose of arrogance. Yes, believe it or not, this server does not have huge population, people that have as much time to play as they've had before and so on.

Also, the retarded mentality that comes from many group players and is supported by staff is to ignore solo players. Who the ****** cares what the game was intended to be? Many things turn out better than they were intended if we don't follow a strict code, right? Whether you want to believe it and accept it or not, solo classes do exist, and many group classes can be played as solo. It's a role playing game, correct? So people are allowed to be what they want...noble knights, proud wizards, lone warriors/avengers. Some prefer the group mentality, some like to run solo. Some players have a limited amount of time to play, or even much time but can't stay online for long at a time, so they realize that it's not fair that they join a group, just to leave soon. In the end, game is what you make of it.

Personally, I do not see the barrel removal as a nerf. People that play solo will take the time and make pots, arrange them and so on. However, we have many other time sinks we really don't need. Farming basic items for one. Also, there are many things that do not make sense at all. I am not sure if these kind of problems exist in alb/hib, but for example the midgard dragon bone bracer is something I was curious about. Now, many people have tried and cannot find the bracer in old logs or even on housing on live. Dragon drops currently on live are the tank bracer we have + caster bracer that replaced the old dragon bone bracer that drops no more. Both of these bracers have 1 min re-use timer on live. Abydos told me that I need to find proof the old one had a certain re-use timer, but I really can't find the bracer at all. By following simple logic, since the new ones have 1 min re-use this one should have it to. However, since we do not have definite proof, bracer is now set on default 3 min timer. It's quite funny, because both bracers having 1 min re-use on live + the item itself being a DRAGON drop, staff could have put the 2 min timer at least.

In short, most active players do not want things handed out to them. Most of them play on uthgard because you need to earn your levels and items. They are willing to accept the fact that making a good template often takes time and they do not want realm ranks over night. What players mostly want is for staff to meet them halfway. I am well aware that in some things we need to stick strictly to patch level, and most will accept that. However, there are many things that would speed up rvr(not instant action, cause part of the thrill in daoc is to roam and get inc., and I do believe most players here dislike the arena system) and would not kill the "classic" feeling. We have too many senseless time sinks, we stick blindly to the patch level in things that only annoy people, and affect the endgame rvr in a bad way, bringing absolutely nothing positive.

We need:

-less time sinks

-more communication between players and the staff

-equal treatment of 8v8/zerg/duo/small group/solo players and finding the solutions that all of them can agree with and respect

-stop the dogmatic view of classic, blindly following patch notes while completely disregarding common sense and how it actually affects the game

-GM's taking 1 week off a month to actually play the game and not work on the server, so they can see what problems players face


I'm sure people will think of other things as well. Also, many people from my alliance have asked me about item decay and other things, and I can tell you many people don't have a clue how will it be implemented and what's going on. Many of them don't understand English well, so it's a problem for me to fully explain. Maybe asking the moderators of german/italian/french/other sections to make a topic where players can post questions about all this and get detailed explanation in their own language would help. Naturally, not all of them read the forum, but even if one or two out of 30 read it, word will spread through chat/ts fast and people will be much better informed.

Sorry for straying off topic with the dragon bone bracer, but it's a pve example of not applying simple logic and making things harder for no reason, which we often face in rvr too.

I can imagine you have a point, or many points.
Please put your input in the necessary form aswell.

Yondai wrote:

Raggnar wrote:Ok so, some new servers are showing up. We all know Eden is pure ******, but Origins might be ok. I can understand the staff wanting to keep their players and all that, but don't go out of your way to satisfy people, it will just bring more ******. There are many, many different kinds of crybabies on uthgard, and most of them whine for no reason or just because they are selfish. Most of the players are willing to accept certain "nerfs", as long as it makes sense.

While I know that your goal is classic 1.69, game really has evolved over the years. Uthgard staff often ignored the fact that we do not have same population, player base or general interest in the game from the side of players like it was 8-11 years ago. Blue, Abydos, Trishin to say the least have ignored this with a huge dose of arrogance. Yes, believe it or not, this server does not have huge population, people that have as much time to play as they've had before and so on.

Also, the retarded mentality that comes from many group players and is supported by staff is to ignore solo players. Who the ****** cares what the game was intended to be? Many things turn out better than they were intended if we don't follow a strict code, right? Whether you want to believe it and accept it or not, solo classes do exist, and many group classes can be played as solo. It's a role playing game, correct? So people are allowed to be what they want...noble knights, proud wizards, lone warriors/avengers. Some prefer the group mentality, some like to run solo. Some players have a limited amount of time to play, or even much time but can't stay online for long at a time, so they realize that it's not fair that they join a group, just to leave soon. In the end, game is what you make of it.

Personally, I do not see the barrel removal as a nerf. People that play solo will take the time and make pots, arrange them and so on. However, we have many other time sinks we really don't need. Farming basic items for one. Also, there are many things that do not make sense at all. I am not sure if these kind of problems exist in alb/hib, but for example the midgard dragon bone bracer is something I was curious about. Now, many people have tried and cannot find the bracer in old logs or even on housing on live. Dragon drops currently on live are the tank bracer we have + caster bracer that replaced the old dragon bone bracer that drops no more. Both of these bracers have 1 min re-use timer on live. Abydos told me that I need to find proof the old one had a certain re-use timer, but I really can't find the bracer at all. By following simple logic, since the new ones have 1 min re-use this one should have it to. However, since we do not have definite proof, bracer is now set on default 3 min timer. It's quite funny, because both bracers having 1 min re-use on live + the item itself being a DRAGON drop, staff could have put the 2 min timer at least.

In short, most active players do not want things handed out to them. Most of them play on uthgard because you need to earn your levels and items. They are willing to accept the fact that making a good template often takes time and they do not want realm ranks over night. What players mostly want is for staff to meet them halfway. I am well aware that in some things we need to stick strictly to patch level, and most will accept that. However, there are many things that would speed up rvr(not instant action, cause part of the thrill in daoc is to roam and get inc., and I do believe most players here dislike the arena system) and would not kill the "classic" feeling. We have too many senseless time sinks, we stick blindly to the patch level in things that only annoy people, and affect the endgame rvr in a bad way, bringing absolutely nothing positive.

We need:

-less time sinks

-more communication between players and the staff

-equal treatment of 8v8/zerg/duo/small group/solo players and finding the solutions that all of them can agree with and respect

-stop the dogmatic view of classic, blindly following patch notes while completely disregarding common sense and how it actually affects the game

-GM's taking 1 week off a month to actually play the game and not work on the server, so they can see what problems players face


I'm sure people will think of other things as well. Also, many people from my alliance have asked me about item decay and other things, and I can tell you many people don't have a clue how will it be implemented and what's going on. Many of them don't understand English well, so it's a problem for me to fully explain. Maybe asking the moderators of german/italian/french/other sections to make a topic where players can post questions about all this and get detailed explanation in their own language would help. Naturally, not all of them read the forum, but even if one or two out of 30 read it, word will spread through chat/ts fast and people will be much better informed.

Sorry for straying off topic with the dragon bone bracer, but it's a pve example of not applying simple logic and making things harder for no reason, which we often face in rvr too.

I can imagine you have a point, or many points.
Please put your input in the necessary form aswell.

Yeah, sorry for that. Well, feel free to delete my comment or just leave it as it is(I won't comment on this topic anymore in this form). Problem is, if I stick strictly to the template you've set, that leaves me without the possibility to explain in detail what's the problem. Point taken, as long as the staff reads the post and takes it into consideration, that's fine with me.

Look at svper's post. Do it like this and the huge text you're giving can be put under IV) !
You bind my time having to read through all of it. Time I can use to work for you otherwise. Give me your main points fast. That's why I want you to follow the template.

You say

-more communication between players and the staff

Take into account that we have to read EVERYTHING you are writing so please make it short and on the spot!
I read your post and you really have some valid points there.

Both of you are making very good points about the pots/charges/'buff bots' systems that are, were, or could be in effect. I'd like to point out that this (and to a vastly lesser extent coloring/shoulderpadding) is the largest $ sink in the game. In effect it is the only thing from keeping people from acruing large amounts of money for the already largely inflated prices for said charge items like the Hib femur and dragon rings. So the cash earned in RvR from kills has to balance the solo self charging, with those classes that 8man or self-buff. One type of play style is losing cash, the other is gaining cash.

Just my thoughts. I would like to hear feedback on this. My opinion is somewhat slanted as i tend to try to solo with more self-sufficient classes (champion) or try to group.

I)Releasing back to the border keeps on death in frontiers slows the game down
II)Depending on the time of day you can end up waiting around forever. Then have to sit through load screens. Then rebuff blah blah
III)Make it so when you die in the frontier you release back to the portal keep not the border keep unless you /release house. Just like the battlegrounds were till recently.
IV)If GMs disagree this is a good idea. Then perhaps make it so when you put a necklace on and step on the porter pad it ports you instantly with no waiting. However then you sit through 2 unnecessary load screens. I cannot see how this is a "bad thing" its just not how it was at 1.69.

[Edited by Yondai]
I) Live Like Relict system, better keep bonuses
II) atm keeps dont influence relict raids. atm it is better to let a keep on lvl1 instead of a higher lvl since it will be most likely not raided if it is lvl 1 but it will if it is lvl 10.
III) implement live like relict guard system so defending/raiding keeps will be more important. for keeps no idea there were a lot of different solutions from mythic over the years. take any of that.
IV) thats the most important points to get "casual" players in rvr

I)Keeps aren't worth enough rp/xp
II)People fight over keeps to open DF. Then they are done. If you have a decent realm rank the 500 rp for keep + 300 rp for task is a joke. Also increase the XP bonus making it attractive for people in their 40s.
III)Make keep takes/tasks worth 2,000 rps firm regardless of Realm Rank.
IV)I can see RR10-12 people complaining about this but if they do then it just points out they are all realm rank and not skill. I mean if people going up realm rank bothers you then you must need the extra realm rank to compete with the noobs or you wouldn't care.

EDIT: Also if more people are out taking keeps, that is more people for the regular guild elite 8 mans to go kill.