After analyzing the problems besetting Uthgard, I came to the conclusion that level 50 RvR is the largest downside to playing Uthgard. It would seem more players enjoy the battlegrounds than level 50 RvR and that despite the trend for all characters to move towards 50, there is a disproportionate amount of players who choose to avoid level 50 RvR.

I believe this is due to perhaps only a couple of reasons:
1. Keep siege/defense dynamics are rarely involved
-----A. Too many keeps spread too far apart.
-----B. Reward for taking keeps too small. Relic defense troop number is not affected and Darkness Falls is essentially the only reason for taking keeps.
2. Milegates create a single choke point, which discriminates indirectly against certain play styles.

If level 50 RvR is one of the most significant problems to Uthgard, why are the GMs focusing on issues such as Old RAs, or New itemization/new dungeons which do not address the number one problem?

This could be only my opinion! So, can a poll be created with the following options?

What area should the developers work on first?
- Adding new dungeons and/or items
- Introduce old RAs
- Work on making level 50 RvR better
- Other

cool story bro

Am I incorrect in my belief that the "new" (they are quite old actually) RvR dungeons add new points to enter an enemy's frontier? This, in my opinion, will make RvR much better, as it adds another entrance.

Also, I think that the Old Realm Abilities will change up the desired group classes, and make abilities available to classes that New RA's do not. If my understanding is correct I think that this will improve and expand RvR a bit, making more classes viable, or at least different ones.

I think there are other things in the works too.

If my understanding to all of these things is correct, I would have to vote for all 4 if such a vote were called.

I could be wrong though.

This is just my 2 cents on this Isavyr, but I think frontier RvR has been improving slowly every since the announcement of moving to the Old RA's. Alot of this increased activity is people trying to get higher RR's while they can so they are not quite as gimped with the Old RA's, but alot of it is people just getting out their and trying it.

Your first issue you bring up is the Mile Gates being a chokepoint that kills RvR. I would actually take the opposite stance on that. Having AMG being the center of RvR is not always a bad thing. As much as it encourages zerging, adding, and alot of bad things in RvR it also promotes action. People want quick action. The best way to do that is to have a spot that everyone know's to go to. That spot is AMG in Emain. It was the same before w/ Agramon and no matter what you do, wherever the action is at is where people will congregate to find fights.

You say people enjoy BG's more then they do frontier RvR. I would agree with you on that, but for different reasons. I think people like BG RvR because its easier. People are still learning their toons so it is easier (if you know how to play your toon) to have positive results. Very simple tactics work very effectively in BG's. Those same tactics wont work in frontier RvR. The people you run into in BG's are roughly the same RR as your toons. That also doesnt happen in frontier RvR when you may have a 4L2 fighting a 10L0.

Basically, its EASIER for a player to roll a new toon, give him some decent armor, and go out and find poorly played players to kill in a BG then it is to stick with their main toon's and adapt to frontier RvR. That is all it boils down to for me. Making keep takes more advanced would help bring out more people, but it would not "fix" the problem. Most of the problem is a community mindset problem and that will only be fixed when people make a determined effort to go out in frontier RvR.

A huge action killer is the fact that Crauch/Beno and Bled aren't craft keeps anymore, in old times you had to go to one of those 3 keeps to be able to craft over 800 skill, this created HUGE incentive to take these keeps and it gave people another reason to go the frontiers... If you wanted to level your crafting you had to RvR.

A huge action killer is the fact that Crauch/Beno and Bled aren't craft keeps anymore, in old times you had to go to one of those 3 keeps to be able to craft over 800 skill, this created HUGE incentive to take these keeps and it gave people another reason to go the frontiers... If you wanted to level your crafting you had to RvR.

I agree wholeheartedly. I faintly remember those days now. I was so excited to bring my level 32-50 full rejuvination cleric out to Caer Benowyc to craft the finer armors, and experiment with new siege recipies, I used to make all kinds of things there. I remember many a glad and happy response when I would find fallen realmmates and raise them up off of the dirt while on my journey to Benowyc. And the glad and happy response I gave when I was occasionally handsomely rewarded!

You bring a good point with this!

First, thanks for the reply

RonELuvv wrote: Making keep takes more advanced would help bring out more people, but it would not "fix" the problem. Most of the problem is a community mindset problem and that will only be fixed when people make a determined effort to go out in frontier RvR.

I disagree with you here. I think people will want to come out to the frontier once they feel they have a reason. The population looks the way it does today for a reason. It wasn't created in a vacuum and, until the problems that created the situation we face now are fixed, the problems will continue.

While I do believe old RAs will create an influx of players who want to try the novelty of having the old RAs, I don't think it's a reason in itself that people stopped playing level 50 RvR. I could be completely wrong here--this is only my perspective, having played slightly less than a year here.

Old RA's = no viper right?

Gogogo old RA's

Old RA's = NS get viper once every 30mins, actually. It also means NS don't get vanish though...

Zetetic wrote:Also, I think that the Old Realm Abilities will change up the desired group classes, and make abilities available to classes that New RA's do not. If my understanding is correct I think that this will improve and expand RvR a bit, making more classes viable, or at least different ones.

I could be wrong though.

You are very very wrong.

Braxis wrote:

Zetetic wrote:Also, I think that the Old Realm Abilities will change up the desired group classes, and make abilities available to classes that New RA's do not. If my understanding is correct I think that this will improve and expand RvR a bit, making more classes viable, or at least different ones.

I could be wrong though.

You are very very wrong.

Please expand on your thoughts, then

Isavyr wrote:Please expand on your thoughts, then

Isavyr wrote:I think that the Old Realm Abilities will change up the desired group classes, and make abilities available to classes that New RA's do not.

No, it will severely lower the number of classes wanted in an 8man (hybrids will lose det, etc...).

I will go so far and say that some classes, which are rarely seen in rvr as is, will become utterly useless.

Isavyr wrote: If my understanding is correct I think that this will improve and expand RvR a bit, making more classes viable, or at least different ones.

Making more classes unneeded is not an improvement, and will most certainly reduce rvr, making bgs even more favorable.

So: no, no, no, and no.

Only ppl so far happy with the changes are those shortsighted enough to only think about the removal of viper...

Braxis is right. If you think that there will be more diversity of players running in frontiers after the RA change think again. The classes that benefit from this are "true tanks" (BM's, Hero's, Merc's, Zerks, etc...) and basically the main classes that are wanted in 8 man today. ALL Hybrids lose Det and with that lose any chance of getting in a good 8 man group. NS's lose Vanish, INF's and SB's lose Viper, but all Assasins gains a nice boost since all Ranged stealther classes lose Mastery of Stealth. Lots of chars will change and people will see that 8 man groups will get even more strict in who they allow in to groups.

I agree with you then Braxis. But you also misquoted as I said none of those things ^^

wtb old ra