I dont like the fact that archer classes dont have the choice to get further speed while stealthed. On the other hand there is also a thread ongoing about the disadvantages of the hybrids concerning crowd control.

At the moment assassins see archers about on the range like a archer has specced mos4 himself without spending any realm points. On the other hand with mos5 the archer has a small advantage over all assassin classes.

So any ideas how to balance this out when OF is out or will it end as a further qq ranger topic?

From memory a lot of Scouts back on Palo were 42 shield(for the stun) and a weapon skill, can't remember what RAs they used though but were considered the strongest of the archer classes at the time. Can't remember much more than that ;p

Now Archers had the big advantage with MoS. With old RAs the assassines get "See Hidden" to see archers.
Your revenge will come, archers who noobily unstealthed players in the past


Indeed archers get a big nerf with Old RAs.

Lintu wrote:Now Archers had the big advantage with MoS. With old RAs the assassines get "See Hidden" to see archers.
Your revenge will come, archers who noobily unstealthed players in the past


Indeed archers get a big nerf with Old RAs.

Where is the big advantage to spec ra points to see assassins? Assassins get detect hidden by nature and only mos4 is slightly better than that but costs 20 points. I had mos5 the some day before for weeks and when I saw a SB I directly turned away but the SB saw me the whole time. I state often that there must be something wrong with stealth on Uthgard.

Ronian wrote:Where is the big advantage to spec ra points to see assassins? Assassins get detect hidden by nature and only mos4 is slightly better than that but costs 20 points. I had mos5 the some day before for weeks and when I saw a SB I directly turned away but the SB saw me the whole time. I state often that there must be something wrong with stealth on Uthgard.

I talk about the old RA:

See Hidden Passive N/A 8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

Automatically detect stealthed characters that don't have the "Detect Hidden" ability: Scouts, Hunters, Rangers, and Minstrels.

(http://web.archive.org/web/200310030524 ... rator.html)

Sounds like assassines can see all archers now. With New RAs archers were able to see assassines. So we finally turn it over

btw: OldRA MOS wont let u see assassines anymore. Just improves your stealth speed.

Lintu you dont get my point. Archers CAN see assassins but they have to spend points. And assassins see archers by nature like they have mos3 when they receive detect hidden, sometimes I think even mos4 with capped stealth.

The biggest issue will be the slow stealth speed. And only assasins get mos and is just really expensive points so none will have it anyway. Result will be even more camping at mile gates and general stealth zerging. The only rvr left i see for stealthers is DF and the coming rvr dungeons.

Conclussion: Old RA´s will be the end of stealth wars on uthgard.

Old RAs will lead to multiple archers grouping so they can keep true sight running.

Jonah wrote: And only assasins get mos and is just really expensive points so none will have it anyway.

nope,..., ALL stealther (except minstrel) get MoS.
but Old MoS is only speed increase (NO detection increase)

archer can spec up to MoS3 with old RA´s so they can get 15% better stealthspeed but for a ridicolous price.
same goes for assasines...MoS resulting in 15% better stealth speed.

http://web.archive.org/web/200312060551 ... abilities/

has MoStealth only for Scouts

so even the mythic sites can't be taken as reliable sources of information.

the link you posted show MoS available for:
scout, ranger, hunter, infi, Nightshade, shadowblade

In my opinion the shift of balance Old RAs will cause in the stealth scene isn't exactly clear enough to start modifying the RAs. It's a huge change of gameplay, but it doesn't really prevent anyone from chosing specific playstyles, it'll require a lot of adapation though, that's for sure.

I'm not saying everyone here is asking for 'fixes', I'm just saying that I don't believe it's worth meddling with the system for in general.


If I'd have to draw the line somewhere between what's worth rebalancing and what not, it'd be somewhere between giving Hybrids a form of Det and leaving the stealther RAs as they are.



Just my 2cts.

you guys did notice that detect hidden just gives a 125 unit bonus? (wich is less than mos 2....)

with my hunter (mos 3) i could easily follow assassins in thid without them seeing me.

...of course with camo down an assassin with equal level of mos will see me better due to that 125 detect hidden bonus (250 base range + mos bonus vs. 125 base + mos)

Current Stealth System
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Detect Hidden allows assasins to have a small bonus for detecting non detect hidden enemys, like archers. Basicly it is common for Assasins to go for MoS2, while archers tend to go for MoS3 or higher, since there detect hidden allows MoS2 to be as effective as MoS3, with camo down.

With camo up on an archer, it allows the archer to get around and if they spend pts for MoS3+ , it will allow them to sneak up on an assasin , while if camo is down and the assasin chooses to go with MoS3+, they will have a clear advantage with Camo down and with there Detect Hidden.

For an assasin to benifit he should spec MoS3 or higher and then he will have an advantage when camo is down, while the archer needs to spec MoS3+ and have camo up to have his benifit. Camo has a 10min reuse, and resets every time you attack an enemy, even if its a shot , then you run away, so camo isnt always going to be up. Which is benifical to assasins.

Old Stealth System
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See hidden allowed assasins to detect in the same manar as detect hidden, exept it cost them 8 RA pts. But it had much much longer detection range, since MoS did not give + to detection range, just movement. The only time an archer could counter this, was to have camo up, which then he could sneak around at slow speed, and no detection range, and since camo is up, the assasin can only see them at standered detection range also (about 125 units). With See hidden assasins had a much greater benifit when archers didnt have camo up and was no way to counter that, unless they camp till camo was up again. Since MoS only gave 5% movement speed and no detection range, it gave less and cost pts, as see hidden also cost points too.

On the other hand, archers could get a RA called truesight, which allowed them to see stealthers at very great range for 60 second, which encourage rangers or other archers to run in grps or for a non visable group to have a TS archer on board, or at least waiting at the gates when a grp was coming to it, to knock each stealther out to be ganked.

The problem with this system is that it encourages solo archers to camp for camo to be up or for them to run in grps. While it allowed assasins to spec for great detection range at low cost. Archers would move very slow in stealth, while assasins could get MoS to move faster, but that was all they get for it.

___________________________________________

In my opinon i think the newer stealth system is more balanced. Now many assasins think it wouldnt be, because a archer could sneak up on them from stealth with camo up and if its down, there higher MoS allowed them to see them coming. But that is there fault for specing for low MoS because they had detect hidden. If an assasin aimed for high MoS with detect hidden, there is a better chance they could move fast enough to land a PA. Remember it cost an archer many RA pts to get higher MoS and if you want to counter it, youl have to get at least one rank below what that archer has or go higher for a better detection. A assasin with MoS5 vs a archer with MoS5 will have better detection vs them when camo is down, but when it is up yes the archer will have the advantage, but its easy to lose camo for 10min, heck if one attacks you with camo, just try to land a stun or snare, then run off, if you can stealth, then they are a sitting duck with no camo.

I Think we should keep the current setup for stealth, keep the current MoS, that gives movement + detection, and give it to those who have it in the new system. Give free Detect hidden to assasins like now, no see hidden. Remove True Sight, and so on , keep it as it is now , i think it would be more balanced.

I´m really looking forward to see the fotm rangers QQ for being perfed all day.