The Real Overhaul this server drastically needs. ;)
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Started off as a post in the thread in the English General Section, but ended as a topic...
I stopped reading here because I think this is crucial to solving the problem. It IS possible to make players like end RvR, even to people who don't like its current form. The trick is to convert our current end RvR environment to a place where you can sustain both the current 50 RvR AND the BG like playstyle (not so much the instant part, but primarily the freedom to go out no matter whether you are 50 and SCed or 48 and in decent gear and really enjoy improving your character). Currently, the BG-like playstyle is possible, but just not rewarding enough, which leads to an eventual lack of interest in end RvR for those players. Why is it not rewarding enough? Primarily because there is just not enough action for smallman and solo players, which makes the rare occasions of possible fun smallman/solo runs die out very easily and eventually even non-existant. This is caused by 2 reasons. The first is that there are not enough levelers in the frontiers to viably roam PvE spots and not fall asleep after 20 minutes of zero inc as an RvR minded player. It's currently a waste of time because XP spots aren't attractive enough to PvE at compared to the other possibilities (Thid, DF, ...). The second is that your potential RvR playerbase in the frontiers is narrowed down to RR4+ lvl 50s, whereas it should be at least lvl 40+ (yes, the RvR playerbase should be a lot bigger than what it is now). It's narrowed down because of Thidranki and you could add Wilton to that too, to name the entire cause. Late BGs and 'high' RR caps are ironically only decreasing the end RvR population by offering more rewarding options below that standard and thus soaking up all the players who haven't reached that yet. This causes the reward to go out in the frontiers to drop even more, because they have practicly no chance to encounter enemies of equal strength nor get decent XP compared to the other choices. The best way to solve this is probably to attract a lot more levelers to the end RvR environment than we have now, not only to level through PvE, but also grant them the possibility to viably PvP aswell (sort of as a replacement of late BGs) in order to viably improve their character (meaning that RvRing will be sort of equal xp wise compared to PvE). This way you will create a complete new influx of players, which provides the possibility for casual playstel aswell as the leveler playerbase to have a good time in the end RvR environment (regardless of capping whatever BG to get RR). The problem that's causing so many players to avoid end RvR is thus solved, which in turn will create even more activity in the frontiers because besides the new leveler influx, players who used to roll a new toon whenever they were 'forced' to play end RvR will also start finding their way into the frontiers. This time not because they are forced, but because they enjoy it. So the goal of course is to increase the end RvR action and thus fun, by effectively shifting the currently RvR-inactive population to the frontiers instead of the BGs, mainland or even DF, which is what's currently going on. My version of realising this drastic, but vital change to the Uthgard end RvR setting is the following: - Implement Old BGs and BG caps, remove the current BG setting. I won't post the exact data, but they(3 BGs) start at 20 and end at 35 with a RR cap of 2L2. - Improve the PvE spots and slightly increase the bonusses in OF to make PvEing in the frontiers a slightly better (but dangerous) way to XP through PvE. - Increase the XP rate for RvR kills in order to make it similar to PvE in the frontiers (keeping in mind finding inc in OF is a lot harder than it is in the BGs), so that chosing either option will be a sort of equal way of improving your character. Of course both of these activities should generally be a bit more attractive than xping in the mainlands and at least equal to DF. (Making character improvement in the frontiers more rewarding than it is now by granting better bonusses is justified by the fact that it will also become more dangerous than it is now.) Not to mention that this would actually also be truly classic. Old BGs and BG setting, combined with the RvR action even before level 50, SC and high RR. Eventually, Old RAs are also welcome in this setting, partly because more activity will mean even more zerglike battles, where Old RAs are simply more appriopriate than NF RAs. Feel free to comment and/or give your own suggestions on how to deal with this "end RvR disease".  But please, keep it rational and constructive... |
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Why do you suggest exactly the same things you suggested some weeks/months ago? Or do i mix sthg/someone up?
And there was no real need to split the debate... |
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Because nobody seems to realise this is the actual problem, not dual wield halving defences or whatever. |
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or you could enable /rp off.
by now (since daoc launch) i have 3 and a half accounts of my own and 2 others filled with lvl 50 toons with the highest EVER being 4L7. thats how much i enjoy lvl 50 rvr since the release of DaoC. combined over the years i spend 50 times as much hours in the bgs then in the frontiers. agramon was a bg for lvl 50. and it still was no fun from my view. is it REALLY so difficult to just let the people play how they like to play? the current bgs are good as they are with the exception of the initial gap to do something in braemar and the wilton layout. killing of the bgs over 35 and 2l2, well. i want /lvl 20 then^^ 2l2 is reached so fast that it wouldnt be worth the trouble. and i wont go frontiers even if there are 200 ppl 40+ leveling there because killing expers is like killing a liter of kittens. and i wont go level there either since nothing is more entertaining to get ae mezzed right in the middle of a pull and then nuked down from a behind while being pummeled by mobs. that is the exact same situation we had in agramon. great spots, great exp and some folks grinding their way up towards rr11 by killing the 40+ that made use of those spots. i would reroll at least 1, probably 2 of my chars in my prefered realm if /rp off would be available and i would roll at least 4 more that i like in specific bg levels but that lose their entertainment value at a certain point. as of now, i just log in to see if my houserent is still good. |
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This debate is as old as the sea, I think ^^
a) if you channel all players into the end game, you will effectively drain the world from players, making it nigh impossible for newcomers to catch up and interact with the community, So rerolling and low-level BGs are necessary - wouldn't change the current implementation. b) Uthgard does not have the playerbase to sustain both a zerg-like RvR while at the same time keeping enough players spread out through the lower levels at all times. c) In general, you have two types of players in a game like DAoC - competitive PVPers and PvE players (who do the occasional RvR). The former will not zerg, usually, or else gang up and farm zergs. Your average PvEer does not like being farmed and will avoid the large scale RVR, unless you have an organized zerg - which brings us back to the low population issue (spread across several time zones, no less). |
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There's plenty of people in emain for some time now. Constant adding by other fgs or zerging from the start for no reason is what's killing the little fun you can have in emain with an 8man or smallman.
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there's your issue |
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Sigh, the zone is not an issue. Are you suggesting that we go roam other, ALWAYS EMPTY zones ?
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if you go there they won't be empty .. and yes.. if you claim there is soooo many who wanna smallman / solo - then there should be plenty of people who would follow you once they find out you are out there.. ofc it might take time for them to find out you are there |
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Fortunately I do not suffer from schizophrenia so fighting myself is not an option.
You do realise that myself and people who play this game with me play it for rvr, not to roam an empty zone for hours or even days. It's not the same as you soloing and waiting a whole afternoon for one fight. This is 8 different people from different timezones with things to do irl. |
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I do not agree with Zarkor on this, because lowering BG limit to 35 would exclude too much players from RvR experience. Level 35-mid 40s players would be cannon fodder in OF, just as level 20s are in Braemar right now. However, what I definitely do agree with is this:
In my opinion, we do need more levellers in OF, so they would attract solos/smallmen, who would in turn attract bigger groups. I cannot think of any other way how to bring action to OF areas other than Emain. It's like a natural food chain, the herbivore xpers getting devoured by carnivore solos/smallmen, who would in turn get hunted by predatory fg's. At the same time, the xpers would be able to go look for enemy xpers in similar level range if they get fed up with grinding. However, I realize we need a BG with 4L2 level cap to cope with the RR gap between new and old players. But what about shifting the BGs level ranges so that Thidranki would be capped at lvl 45 instead of 49, with 4L2 (or maybe 4L0) RR cap? Levels 46+ would be be forced to go out to OF then, while they still should be able to participate in OF RvR (hunting other xpers or taking keeps, for example). So, players should get more motivated to come to OF below level 50. Killing mobs in OF should be more rewarding, either in terms of XP points or drops. I mean, there are lots of people farming bears in Raumarik every day - why not motivate them to go to OF instead to make more xp/money? |
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+1 |
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This. |
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Well in my opinion the main problem is obvious imbalance between realms
Everybody knows that mids enjoy endgame rvr most cause its simplier for them (tankspam setups, cele and stuff). Thats a plain fact. Just watch the video some uber mouseclicking skald posted Its psychological explanation of having fun without any stress which simply cannot be avoided in other realms. For example totally noob alb or hib group has completely no chance vs any mid one. And thats why people prefer bgs where everything is more or less equal. |
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I have to say I somewhat agree to this also - mids seem to have a mentality that do not care about players who "play bad".. I mean.. if that had been any class in hib - he would most likely get next to 0 grps in hib/alb again.. however in mid.. he gets invites.. not sure if this is because mid has it easier.. or if its a community issue though |
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