Issue
As you all know Dex/Qui charges got a custom Delve on Uthgard.
(63 instead of 75).

I´d like to discuss what this change means to you playing solo , smallgroups or even fullgroups.

Also the complete lack of +%Castspeed that has always been available on live.
(OF = RA // 1.80 = Toa bonus on armor // Uthgard = none)
If Tanks would have to start with -150qui on Uthgard they would go nuts about it aswell but thats offtopic.

Impact:

-The D/Q Charge is highly available for all 3 realms.
You don´t have to pay ridiculous prizes for them like for the "old" S/C charge. Everyone who is interested to get a D/Q charge can get one within a day.

-The lowered Delve doesn´t have the same impact on every realm (see below ->Fullgroups).

-Classes don´t get affected equally.
Tanks defense will be slightly lower,he will hit slower (but harder)
Casters damageoutput has significantly decreased.They already lack any form of +%castspeed , why nerfing the castspeed even further ?
Stealthers losing precious attackspeed and defense.
Bow Classes getting their damage reduced additionally.
Weapontypes that are 50/50 str/dex got nerfed for no reason.
Supporters are screwed aswell (conc problematic see -> fullgroup)


Solo
-The castspeed noticably dropped.Playing the toon long enough to notice a difference in the castspeed . this is like the jump from aug.Dex2 to 3. I can definatly notice the difference.
-Melee classes can reach me earlier.
-It takes longer to kill my target.
-Chance to get a deadly "add" are even higher. (couldn´t get the final cast through , so i have to kite and run into another enemy)
-you can clearly see that your castspeed will be drasticly lower with charged buffs vs "real" buffs .
-There is a full second difference between solo fullcharged vs avg. group buffs in standard situations. Even with the normal value of the charge the gap is huge.


Smallgroups
-Depends on the constallation , but usually i group with a buffer - so there should be no difference to me.

Fullgroups
(Spec buffer point of view:)
-No changes on hib side (standard setup has 2druids 1 bard , no conc issues)
-Albs standard setup has just 2 clerics and no friar - so most likly some basebuffs will be missing and people will have to charge.
D/Q on tanks is a luxury , so they rely on the charge.
-Mid standard setup has 2 healers + 1 sham. Sham has to buff endurance to everyone + the normal specs.Most likly tanks won´t get a spec D/Q but only the weak aoe version unless they use the charge.
-you can clearly see that your castspeed will be drasticly higher with "real buffs" .There is a full second difference between solo fullcharged vs avg. group buffs in standard situations. Even with the normal value of the charge the gap is huge.


The Table
Spend a lot of time on this - hope you apreciate it.
Scroll down to see it (got no clue why the forum is putting it at the bottom of the post).

Just look at it for a minute and check what you see. I´ve tried to describe the "situations" you will have the buffs on the left side.
Initially i wanted to add damage there aswell , but it is obvious that faster castspeed equals more damage , so i left it out.

Compare the "average situations". You can see a full second difference between being solo and being grouped there.

Is there really a need to make that gap even bigger ?

A Melee class doesn´t care how fast he hits - cause his damage will be adjusted with the swingspeed - you will always do the same ammount of damage within the same timeframe.

The complete lack of any form of +%Castspeed (as RA within OF or on the armor as a TOA bonus at the current 1.80 setting , Uthgard got none of both) is another huge issue.You can´t just spec dex2 or 3 and expect to cast like on live.
If you want that you will have to invest waaaaaaay more points.

Calculations:
The formula used to calculate the castspeed is this:

1-0,15((DEX-60)/100)-0,05((DEX-250)/100)

Blue has stated this as the one being used for Uthgards, so i´ve used it for the calculations.
>german thread about castspeed calculation<

I´ve used "normal" rvr behaviour to point out how much DEX will affect your gameplay as a caster (Enchanter in this case).

debuff,3xdd
3*casttime for dd + debuff

stun,3xpbaoe
4*casttime for stun/pbaoe (same casttime)

<table border="1">
<tr>
<th>Dex base</th>
<th>Dex Items</th>
<th>Dex RA
<th>Dex/Quibuff or charge</th>
<th>Dex basebuff or potion</th>
<th>Dex total</th>
<th>Castspeed(Heat Debuff 2,0)</th>
<th>Castspeed(Base DD 2,6)</th>
<th>Castspeed(Stun/Pbaoe 2,5)</th>
<th>Debuff,3xdd</th>
<th>Stun,3xPbaoe</th>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Solo with custom charge</td>
<td>SC</td>
<td>Aug.Dex3</td>
<td>Custom D/Q charge</td>
<td>Dex Buffpotion</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>63 charge</td>
<td>0</td>
<td>273</td>
<td>1,338sec</td>
<td>1,739sec</td>
<td>1,673sec</td>
<td>6,555sec</td>
<td>6,692sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>63 charge</td>
<td>20 potion</td>
<td>293</td>
<td>1,258sec</td>
<td>1,635sec</td>
<td>1,573sec</td>
<td>6,163sec</td>
<td>6,292sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Grouped with normal buffs</td>
<td>SC</td>
<td>Aug.Dex3</td>
<td>yellow d/q from druid</td>
<td>red dex from bard/druid</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>76 buff</td>
<td>0</td>
<td>286</td>
<td>1,286sec</td>
<td>1,672sec</td>
<td>1,608sec</td>
<td>6,302sec</td>
<td>6,432sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>0</td>
<td>60 buff</td>
<td>270</td>
<td>1,350sec</td>
<td>1,755sec</td>
<td>1,688sec</td>
<td>6,615sec</td>
<td>6,752sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>76 buff</td>
<td>60 buff</td>
<td>346</td>
<td>1,046sec</td>
<td>1,360sec</td>
<td>1,308sec</td>
<td>5,126sec</td>
<td>5,232sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Solo with livelike charge</td>
<td>SC</td>
<td>Aug.Dex3</td>
<td>livelike charge</td>
<td>Dex Buffpotion</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>75 livelike charge</td>
<td>0</td>
<td>285</td>
<td>1,290sec</td>
<td>1,677sec</td>
<td>1,613sec</td>
<td>6,321sec</td>
<td>6,452sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>113</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>22</td>
<td>75 livelike charge</td>
<td>20 potion</td>
<td>305</td>
<td>1,210sec</td>
<td>1,573sec</td>
<td>1,513sec</td>
<td>5,929sec</td>
<td>6,052sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Highest Possible</td>
<td>SC</td>
<td>Aug.Dex5</td>
<td>red d/q from druid</td>
<td>red dex from bard/druid</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>121</td>
<td>75</td>
<td>48</td>
<td>91 red buff</td>
<td>60 buff</td>
<td>395</td>
<td>0,850sec</td>
<td>1,105sec</td>
<td>1,063sec</td>
<td>4,165sec</td>
<td>4,252sec</td>
</tr>
</table>

Note: No clue why there is such a huge gap between the text and the table. Guess the forum doesn´t like HTML tables.

Agreed.
And now that this is said, maybe the staff should consider putting pots as well as charges to a more livelike state (duration and delve).

Chances are incredibly high this won't happen.

You better just use your uth banner untill they fix casting speed and resist rates Salbei. And maybe a tank aswell.

The chance is higher, that all buffpots and -charges are taken out of the game completly

soo.. all the crying is over 0.2 seconds over 3x dd + debuff cast?

or is this about not having + casting speed?

because tbh I can't see how 0.2 seconds can mean a lot over 4 spells casted

however I can see casting speed not being available can be an issue but tbh crying about the custom d/q value is a bit.. well.. wow imo..

nixian wrote:soo.. all the crying is over 0.2 seconds over 3x dd + debuff cast?

or is this about not having + casting speed?

because tbh I can't see how 0.2 seconds can mean a lot over 4 spells casted

however I can see casting speed not being available can be an issue but tbh crying about the custom d/q value is a bit.. well.. wow imo..

Play a caster and come back. Till then you better prevent yourself from trolling more.

Zarkor wrote:

nixian wrote:soo.. all the crying is over 0.2 seconds over 3x dd + debuff cast?

or is this about not having + casting speed?

because tbh I can't see how 0.2 seconds can mean a lot over 4 spells casted

however I can see casting speed not being available can be an issue but tbh crying about the custom d/q value is a bit.. well.. wow imo..

Play a caster and come back. Till then you better prevent yourself from trolling more.

well why don't you explain it to me then? because tbh I can't see what the big fuss is in this issue

Zarkor wrote:Play a caster and come back. Till then you better prevent yourself from trolling more.

Mind a serious argument? Because else your statement was just... well... trollling.

I also on one hand do not see how an additional cast speed reduction of about 3.8% - cast speed value of 63 + 20 compared to cast speed value of 75 + 20 - can be that crucial. On the other hand this is argument of course works in both directions so to my mind charges could be put to 75 again as in my experience it does not matter that much at all.

My idea for charges would be like that:
Alchemy base buff charge: 25
Alchemy base buff charge: 50
Charge from drops: 75

Urgh..... read the OP, THAT is the argument, I can copy paste it, sure. But I don't think there's need to doubt my copy/paste skill.

0,25 sec over 4 casts means a lot.

how many casts do you usually land before an enemy reaches you? thats exactly 4 casts(sprint), and those 0,25 seconds decide whether youre able to start and land a fifth or not.
while the tanks and stealthers dont really bother much with those 12 points d/q, for casters its essentual because their solo possibilities are nerfed even more.

If this will happen i want the str/con charge at his normal(live) value too. Why not? from 75 to 55 str , 20 str is augstr3 almost.

Casterlove only? Salbei, you cannot ask a normal charge value ONLY on dexqui, either you have them all live values, either none.

But this discussion is already done in lot of other threads.

Runis wrote:If this will happen i want the str/con charge at his normal(live) value too. Why not? from 75 to 55 str , 20 str is augstr3 almost.

Casterlove only? Salbei, you cannot ask a normal charge value ONLY on dexqui, either you have them all live values, either none.

But this discussion is already done in lot of other threads.

Well that's not entirely true. Str/con would be the Int charge for a caster, not D/Q.

Besides that, there is no lack of swingspeed or weapondamage on Uthgard, but there is one for casting speed, which makes dex a lot more important for casters than it should be in the first place.

that 0.06 seconds per cast you get from those 12 dex difference....

tbh, that gets lost in connection latency^^

that is a difference of 25 to 26 casts in the same time

custom = 1,573 x 25 = 39,325
normal = 1,513 x 26 = 39,338

do you even have mana for this one more spell without using mcl/instant?

i would consider it more time effective if you could line up a quickcast WHILE your already casting - and dont try to tell me that would be custom - its not, its broken here. that would save a lot more time then this +12 dex difference.

while youre talking about quickcast, you shouldnt forget to add that:
quickcast halves the delve spellcasttime by 2, but increases the manausage by 2 while making it impossible to unterrupt, on live.
on uth, quickcast has a set value of 2,5(or something like that), increases manausage by twofold and makes a cast uninterruptable.

I did not really understand the difference between the values. Isn't 63 for all as fair as 75 for all? Even considering str/con is even lower?

Rector wrote:The chance is higher, that all buffpots and -charges are taken out of the game completly