Hello all,

Agramon has become more and more of an empty space lately. Even thought I can't afford to play too much myself, it strikes me how low the action is some times.
Allthough there's always 400+ people on the server when I go out, there's barely 2 groups running around. It's like an RvR crisis which has a similar negative spiral as the economic one.
The fewer people out, the fewer people that want to go out to RvR because it takes too long to find people.

However, I don't think this is what causes the current problems. I believe there's just not enough people that are willing to admit that a fair fight doesn't have to be equal numbers. It has to be equal force.

For instance since a few weeks, Anguish has been establishing itself more and more, getting better setups, players, RRs etc together. This frightens PuGs to join the RvR and makes them log after one or two fights. (at least in Hibernia)

We tried to take them on with 8 earlier and died a considerable amount of times aswell, but managed to kill them at least once trough good play and the will to keep going even if it looks tough. The difference between us and a PuG however is that we know we can defeat them and that we know what to do to defeat them with equal numbers. That's why we keep going out, because we know we have a chance, and that's also why others log, because they know they don't have a chance with the same numbers.

Therefore I would love to see PuGs keeping it up aswell, probably not making themselves stronger by being more focussed and trying to work together more, because that's a drop on a hot plate, the other team is way superior in that. And that's noone's fault either, it's just a fact. You can't expect to play with new people every time and win against people who are used to playing together and know how to respond on different situations. PuGs should take more initiative by merely bringing more numbers.

If it doesn't work with 8vs8, try with 9 or 10. If that STILL doesn't work, try with some more. As long as you don't exaggerate and make sure the odds for the opponent are higher than ... x% (for instance 20vs8 is exaggerated). It should be a challenging fight for both sides. Numbers should not matter, total strength should. As long as the groups that run around are of similar strength, everyone will enjoy their time in RvR and there will be more action due to everyone having a chance to win once in a while.
It's up to you whether you think it's worth taking a 9th or 10th.

There is one catch to this though. As soon as 1 side starts to exaggerate, the other 2 sides will either log out or join the cause, which will end up in zergwars where one zerg wins pure because it has more RvR active people online, making the rest log out and the action to die for the next hour.

So, to prevent this, the stronger (or strongest) group in Agramon should not be with more than 8 if their goal is to roam. On the other hand, the opponents have to keep this in mind when they add more people to their group.
It should work when you always keep in mind that roaming is based on the strongest group running with 8.


I know this all sounds theoretically ok, but practically impossible on Uthgard, however I think if more people would agree on this RvR-style, more people will enjoy it and more people will go out.



Just a thought. Discuss.

Zarkor wrote:Allthough there's always 400+ people on the server when I go out, there's barely 2 groups running around.

blame the extended PVE content, i.e. tajendi + bg's till 4l2

Zarkor wrote:For instance since a few weeks, Anguish has been establishing itself more and more, getting better setups, players, RRs etc together. This frightens PuGs to join the RvR and makes them log after one or two fights. (at least in Hibernia)

that's how we roll baby!
seriously, groups that log out after 1 wipe are frustrating, especially if they have good potential and just need some patience

Zarkor wrote:We tried to take them on with 8 earlier and died a considerable amount of times aswell, but managed to kill them at least once trough good play and the will to keep going even if it looks tough. The difference between us and a PuG however is that we know we can defeat them and that we know what to do to defeat them with equal numbers.

good for you! continuity pays out.

Zarkor wrote:If it doesn't work with 8vs8, try with 9 or 10. If that STILL doesn't work, try with some more.

agree, we try to run vs 16slot with 8 as long as we see a chance of winning - but when half-decent grps that can do well on their own decide to go 16slot, it always leads to zerg

zubasa wrote:good for you! continuity pays out.

How ? Anyway yeah there's as much 8v8 action in NF lately as there was years ago when primetime uthgard had 250 people online.

Welcome to Uthgard, a classic Dark Age of Camelot PVE Freeshard.

reasons why i hardly play anymore:


1. all my favorite enemies and the few nightshades i looked up to left the game or went into grp rvr or pve

2. I don't have as much real life to spare as i used to

3. my goal for my template was removed (even though it wasn't stated in the changelog anywhere)


looking forward to OF.. maybe some new fun targets will appear instead of the viper3 noobs i can beat so easy every 5 min (remedy timer)

Hello,

I'm one of those nameless faces that are part of what some people call PuGs.

In my experience most hibbish don't want to run with 12 vs 8 even if not doing that kills them everytime. So yes after 2-3 run I give up if people don't want to "zerg" a harder group.

But even the few times we made a backup group, mids came with 2 fg so we where screwed again.
I think the only time mids want to fight vs 2 fg hibs is when they see 2fg hibs in epic armour;) everything else is half-descent:P

reason: zubasa

zubasa wrote:blame the extended PVE content, i.e. tajendi + bg's till 4l2

Bullshit... You are the reason... Don't feign more stupid then you are/be hypocrite. You know the reason, and it's not the bg's 4l2 (yeah should be cool to wipe rr1-2 40-45 grp for rp, right?) and not the tajendi. Ppl usually go there after your mighty team wipe solo/duo/trios and pugs. (Or because Tajendi 1-2 is a great work and give more fun then an SVG train in their ass?)

zubasa wrote:seriously, groups that log out after 1 wipe are frustrating, especially if they have good potential and just need some patience

Yeah, stupid ppls realise they don't wann feed your Arpee hunger, and just get some other fun. How sad...

At least after they log, you can do your favourite tactic to get inc: break port!

Zarkor wrote:It's like an RvR crisis which has a similar negative spiral as the economic one.

Just in agra, bgs are much better then years ago (I remember the days when the only "living" bg was braemar, others was empty almost everytime)

Zarkor wrote:The fewer people out, the fewer people that want to go out to RvR because it takes too long to find people.

No, ppl - at least in alb - don't go out when Zub's mighty team out. (Well in some pts it's true, cause he kill everything what's move, so yeah hard to find a killable enemy.)

Zarkor wrote:However, I don't think this is what causes the current problems. I believe there's just not enough people that are willing to admit that a fair fight doesn't have to be equal numbers. It has to be equal force.

In alb side almost all guild belive in the only 8v8 and some of them (the elite?^^) won't participate in any action what is 8+ even they wipe many time in 8v8...

Zarkor wrote:For instance since a few weeks, Anguish has been establishing itself more and more, getting better setups, players, RRs etc together. This frightens PuGs to join the RvR and makes them log after one or two fights. (at least in Hibernia)

Yeah realized svg>all :p

Zarkor wrote:Therefore I would love to see PuGs keeping it up aswell...

After 1 point they will give up, and won't log agra for a looong time, like some of them already did this decision.

Loul wrote: How?

Feeding them, how else?

- Not enouhg ways from A to B. Without beeing either ganked by FG or the Stealthzerg

- Not enough motivated adders in every realm^^

- Missing players for a nice teamplay, where agramon is NO traininggroup for PuG groups. I just can advice any noob, learn the game before you go Agramon. Listen to guys with experience (hard to judge who).

- Lack of active played mos5 scouts and hunters:p

Greetz
Nes

Currently 4-5 Midstealther and Healer/some other chars camping AMG. Mids are the best

And the other guys of this thread are right. Mids crash every fight and your main rp source are solos/duos and non-fgs:


Just for example. Watch out for the mighty lvl47 solo Cabalist with no cold res at all (ok i am liar, 5%!)

jrhadden wrote:- Not enough motivated adders in every realm^^

- Missing players for a nice teamplay, where agramon is NO traininggroup for PuG groups. I just can advice any noob, learn the game before you go Agramon. Listen to guys with experience (hard to judge who).

Adders maybe, but after the first few time when they get a whine ip pm about baaaad adder, baaad adder, they don't want to do it again. (Even it's not a fixed number PvP like GvG/HoH in guild wars or arena/bg in wow)

Hard to learn when some players already want to delete bgs - and not much to learn in PvE -. As u said hard to judge who is experienced player and who is just old player here, both not the same. Other part of the coin sometimes newbies don't want advice.

Ronian@ Did you ever see a solo NS?:p (okey there are some, rarely )

How about this:

all you uber we-only-play-8vs8 grps out there in agramon are the reason we noob players dont go to agramon, because you do not allow to join you in the battle for the realm and gain some xperience in form of rr and further abilities to get stronger and bring some live to agramon.
"We dont want zerg!!" ---> stay in 8vs8 alone or go duo or whatever you want. Internally complain about the same "bad" grp you lost against and talk to the enemy (beloved and hated, because they are the pple who make your game fun) in irc and say: we get you next time hahaha.

Wake up!!
DaoC was never ment to be an egoshooter, but deliver epic battles realm against realm!

You really want the guild wars feeling and enter the same battleground with the same ppl and the same opponents again and again? -> keep on going like this and do never take ppl in grp who are naturally all noobs, or run with more than 8 ppl, you dont even might know, because life on the server seems to go past you.

So long and thanks for all the fish.....

Hesinde wrote:How about this:

all you uber we-only-play-8vs8 grps out there in agramon are the reason we noob players dont go to agramon, because you do not allow to join you in the battle for the realm and gain some xperience in form of rr and further abilities to get stronger and bring some live to agramon.
"We dont want zerg!!" ---> stay in 8vs8 alone or go duo or whatever you want. Internally complain about the same "bad" grp you lost against and talk to the enemy (beloved and hated, because they are the pple who make your game fun) in irc and say: we get you next time hahaha.

Wake up!!
DaoC was never ment to be an egoshooter, but deliver epic battles realm against realm!

You really want the guild wars feeling and enter the same battleground with the same ppl and the same opponents again and again? -> keep on going like this and do never take ppl in grp who are naturally all noobs, or run with more than 8 ppl, you dont even might know, because life on the server seems to go past you.

So long and thanks for all the fish.....

What's stopping these people who don't want 8v8 battles only to do their own thing? DAoC is what u make of it. Theres plenty of other likeminded people. Just ignore those 8v8 players you talk about and enjoy the game.

I prefer 8v8 myself but who am I to enforce my preferences on others.

Seems you dont get it the right way.

Did i say i blame the people who play 8vs8 and prefer to zerg around for anything? Dont think so and that`s not my intention.
Ok, short form: You like to run around with 8 ppl and get killed 3-4 times in a row but the same 1 grp with almost no chance to kill them? rr4L2 if all of your grp stayed in thid as long as possible, against what rr8+ ?
So, how do I get more rr abilities and thus a better chance to kill a high rr grp? Maybe by playing with a grp that is a bit better than my grp and yes, maybe with a high rr grp and yes maybe that will result in: oh the enemie brings assiastance too although they are high, because they cant stand to loose --> zerg ?? or maybe just more fun for more people.
And i dont mind if the high rr grps stay at home from time to time because they dont want to get beaten. MOST of the realm stays away from agramon because of that.

Whatever, i build grps, i go to agra, i get frustrated from time to time but will be back after a while

Its a game. would be nice if the fun was shared

Hesinde wrote:
Whatever, i build grps, i go to agra, i get frustrated from time to time but will be back after a while

Thats how i got to rr8+
Was even worse back in emain days.