hib > alb
alb > mid
mid > hib

Is generally how most 8v8 pans out unless there is a significant skill and/or RR gap.

-STT + GP is too much for albs to deal with unless the hibs are just bad.
-a well played group and BOF + SOS is too much for most mids to deal with unless the albs are just bad.
-mid push is too much for hibs to deal with because STT and GP don't have much value in this situation unless the mids are just bad.

Ardri wrote:

Gateaiur wrote:At 1.65 patch level, if u want an easy mode. Go for hib no doubt.

Hib tank group and mid tank groups are both brain dead easy to play. Push on every inc and let the 4-5 seers heal me. Boring snoozefest

That's what people play because it's easy mode and it wins. Yet people still wonder why there are no Alb 8mans lol.

the best thing I've read today
So that's the reason for the 40-man-alb-zerg every evening.
thx for the explanation

Spivo wrote:Albs have the best solo class, no one even comes close, and can make strong groups that strongly counter hib groups (unless they run mentalist...), but are the hardest realm to actually make groups in.

Mentalist only really counter the charmed pets, Theurg can shift+leftclick drag the release bottom from pet-window to hotbar and easily release any pet that has been hit by STT. Caby can recycle pets hit by STT from Mentalist. However since I would categorize alb as a hybrid realm with pet-focus and not so much as a strong solo realm.

And I would also to some extend say that Alb have counters to the melee trains in form of Bunker of Faith, and Soldiers baricade. Without diving into too much of a debate about what abitlies you need to trade to get pass the core RAs in a fight.

Rest of your post I agree with

wonshot wrote:

Spivo wrote:Albs have the best solo class, no one even comes close, and can make strong groups that strongly counter hib groups (unless they run mentalist...), but are the hardest realm to actually make groups in.

Mentalist only really counter the charmed pets, Theurg can shift+leftclick drag the release bottom from pet-window to hotbar and easily release any pet that has been hit by STT. Caby can recycle pets hit by STT from Mentalist. However since I would categorize alb as a hybrid realm with pet-focus and not so much as a strong solo realm.

And I would also to some extend say that Alb have counters to the melee trains in form of Bunker of Faith, and Soldiers baricade. Without diving into too much of a debate about what abitlies you need to trade to get pass the core RAs in a fight.

Rest of your post I agree with

That is a bug... as insane as it sounds, STT should make theurg pets attack owner without any way to release them.
So 15 min/timer RA that shuts down theurg/minst/caba. Only saving graze is that mentalists are not very strong.
Not relevant here, but I would have made that RA turn controllable (not fire and forget) pets turn on their master, and fire and forget pets die. Imagine the outrage if albs/mids had that and did it on a shroom stack.

Needing 1 cloth caster (sorc) to even run, and requiring 2 to be competitive (sorc+theurg), I'd say BOF is a very needed RA for albs. And not having any insta AoE CC, and facing 2300 range insta "redo cast please", I'd say SoS is also very needed.

Not 100% sure why hibs needed group purge on a class they run 2 of in groups, but TWF is such a cool ability it has to be there.

But in this whole discussion, which is about lack of variety of 8 man groups to fight, I think there would be a lot more albs doing 8man, if albs was not forced to level in such a gimp/idiotic way.
AT on endo class and necro PL, ruined much of albs ability to learn to function as a group, while leveling up.


The realm balance stuff doesn't bother me that much, it's to subjective and you'd never be able to agree on what should be changed, even within your own realm.


But I have to quote Charades, because what he writes describes my feelings so very well when people point fingers at albs

Ensley03 wrote:I enjoy when people who don't play Alb make patronizing cheerleader comments about how great all these different alb setups can be, while they themselves run 5 nat / 2 BD hilldive camp groups and care so much about relics that they abandon 8v8 to go get more.

So stop patronizing albs, especially those who DO 8 mans, but just doesn't follow your messed up 8man rules.

Llaw wrote:
What about Midgard being the only realm with Celerity and thus being able to run much stronger tank groups that require way less coordination to execute, making it much easier to play, than their counter-part setups in other realms?

What about Pac Healer being the only class in the game with castable AE stun, insta single stun and insta AE stun?

What about Shamans having extremely high RvR utility, as does the Healer, compared to the Cleric in Albion?

What about Bards not getting MoC, which both other main CC classes in the other realms get?

If Hib is ridiculously strong, why didn't you just roll Hib to start with, and save yourself all this trouble?

Based on your experience I would assume you already knew all these problems before even setting foot on Uthgard?

Be angry with your friends instead of the patch level of this server.

Haha it´s funny that u mention celerity and AoE stun because those are the two things that I always make fun of people for complaining about. The insta stuns are great, they add an additional 2 insta CCs so no argument there. AoE castable stun however is only ever used in one situation in 8vs8, to AoE stun a bunch of theurg pets.
Celerity... Well first of all it has a 1000 range which is pretty damn problematic when aug healer is a backliner who needs to hit the tanks who are generally frontliners with it. There are a couple of ways to solve this problem however:
1. Run 3 healers instead of two so the aug can be much further in the front.
2. Have trispec on your pac so your pac can use 24% celerity (the pac has a million of things to do already however and while being the stick leader he tends to face the most interupts out of all in the mid group.)
3. Make sure to always coordinate well on INC with the tanks and aug so that the tanks run to the side and wait for the celerity effect to hit them before rushing in so they don´t become out of range for it on INC cus of speed 6.
Also haste bonuses work a bit weird in DAoC since as far as I know getting 30% more melee speed doesnt mean getting 30% increased DPS since your damage per swing will drop. It does however still mean a good increase in DPS.
I will agree though that celerity is strong, just don´t expect it to be on you at all times or even the majority of the time as a tank unless you run a 3 healer setup. And if u do run a 3 healer setup with tank DPS I would assume you want at least 2 light tanks so then u have 2 extra slots after 4 seers and 2 light tanks and who gets these slots? The speedbot, the slammer, the pbt/nearsighter or the bonedancer to help pushing that backline? For optimal 8vs8 ability the skald gets cut but on Uthgard there are often long running distances and u like being able to dodge zergs. The slam class AKA warrior is also a good choice to cut since savage can already stun although worse and less reliable and worse defensively. In the end you probably arrive at 3 healers, 1 shaman, 1 zerk, 1 savage, 1 supp RM and last spot for either skald or BD or if you want to be stronger vs tank setups a warrior or a light tank.

About the shaman utility, I think you´ve misunderstood the word utility sorry. Also on a server where no buff bots mean that the shaman buffs are the source of both end regen and spec buffs, killing him will mean winning the fight for the enemy.
If you would have said ichor being strong af on INC I would have simply agreed with you. That was something I hadn´t counted on tbh.
About bards not getting MOC, I honestly didn´t know that, that is quite huge on higher RR indeed. However, I´m way too low RR on Uth for MOC on my healer aswell so far. I´m guessing bards don´t benefit near as much from RR as the healer does then.

You complained about the cleric also and yepp, clerics kinda do suck and are boring to play at the same time, not much argument there. They do get BoF however which is one of my favourite RAs in the game.

Yes as stated I hate being mid on classic DAoC. This whine didn´t start when I became level 50 on Uth, I was whining on my friends from level 20 convincing them that we will just end up wanting to reroll.
The one thing that we can conclude from this conversation is the same thing as I told my friends. Noone in a game has ever understood when something is imbalanced. Everyone has their own opinions about what is strongest so you won´t get some kind of medal for playing the realm that you feel is underpowered. Therefore you should pick the realm that you personally feel will be the strongest unless that realm is overpopulated.
These posts that I´m writing about my thoughts on balance are a complete waste of time. I doubt a single person will read my post and think "wow this guy is actually convincing me of something". So I´m writing them out of pure boredom nothing else.
Maybe I have some hope for cure NS getting to the server eventually though just like mythic found a way to get cure NS to their classic servers when the community demanded it.

Gateaiur wrote:Thought most of experienced ppl agree on that hib is the strongest realm at 1.65. You guys are more than welcome to migrate in mid or albion and show everyone else you guys are right and teach ppl how to play another realm and correct ppl in your realm who failed to do so.

Lol this guy cracks me up

I hope you are not just commenting from the POV on your lvl 24 BD

Ensley03 wrote:hib > alb
alb > mid
mid > hib

Is generally how most 8v8 pans out unless there is a significant skill and/or RR gap.

-STT + GP is too much for albs to deal with unless the hibs are just bad.
-a well played group and BOF + SOS is too much for most mids to deal with unless the albs are just bad.
-mid push is too much for hibs to deal with because STT and GP don't have much value in this situation unless the mids are just bad.

One of the few statements that's correct in 7 pages of misinformed people who try to say any other realm is easier than their own.

We ran Alb. Albs issue is that every single class needs to have someone reliable on it, especially since its caster extension groups. You have someone who doesnt pre-kite or gets caught on inc and its over. Makes it the hardest realm to pug and create decent groups.

Mids easiest to pug and grab any players to fill full retard push tank groups. You really cant argue this. Mids a powerhouse for mediocre players to excel, and thats fine. Honestly, sometimes I'd prefer it and just take it easy.

Hibs the middle ground of accessibility between mid and alb.

agree with the above

DAOC is very unique in that it took 3 realms with completely different classes, races, abilities, and even gear, and made it as balanced as you possibly could. No other MMO I am aware of took so many variables and still was able to balance a game.

This patch level was where I believe that uniqueness was best represented. Then they went more snowflake, gave everyone the same gear (artifacts) and abilities eventually turning it into a wow clone like live today. I watch live on twitch every so often and can't even decipher classes anymore.

If you want a WoW clone go play one, there are plenty to choose from. DAOC is fun BECAUSE the realms are so different. PS #freecharades

ntc wrote:DAOC is very unique in that it took 3 realms with completely different classes, races, abilities, and even gear, and made it as balanced as you possibly could. No other MMO I am aware of took so many variables and still was able to balance a game.

This patch level was where I believe that uniqueness was best represented. Then they went more snowflake, gave everyone the same gear (artifacts) and abilities eventually turning it into a wow clone like live today. I watch live on twitch every so often and can't even decipher classes anymore.

If you want a WoW clone go play one, there are plenty to choose from. DAOC is fun BECAUSE the realms are so different. PS #freecharades

Yeah fully agreed, add cure nearsight and keep it like it is and Im ok. Not having cure nearsight removes a lot of the flexibility in setups. Way more setups would be possible if cure nearsight existed.

Taking cure NS out would be a nerf to hib since they have gp advantage on caster vs caster setups. So even something like that will effect balance, I already see alb caster grps do well vs hib caster grps and adding cure ns will just put it in favour of albs more.

norada wrote:Taking cure NS out would be a nerf to hib since they have gp advantage on caster vs caster setups. So even something like that will effect balance, I already see alb caster grps do well vs hib caster grps and adding cure ns will just put it in favour of albs more.

They do "well" when they all have purge up, and by "well" do you mean "can win" or wins?
Think people mistake "winning sometimes", with "winning often".

Alb groups biggest RA asset is completely worthless vs. hib caster groups, and STT/group purge are both super effective vs alb caster groups. And hibs have so many tools to interrupt the alb casters, when combined with STT nulifying theurgists.
And not like albs dominate the 8man scene in any way, not even close.


Doesn't matter, 1.65 no matter what. Think albs could stop doing RvR all together and would not matter, still 1.65.

My personal problem with NS, is the range. Insta amnesia at 2300 is bad as it is, but add a 2300 red NS in the damage line is silly.

without 3 power relics i saw hib caster groups lose a lot vs the alb groups. sos is strong and some groups run 2 minst now, so having that + cure ns would make the hib caster group really weak. It's the same on mid, if they make cure NS to be similar to how it was on live classic(40 mending) it helps a lot because mid healers can easily go 40mend 36pac/aug which helps them a lot too. I dont even play hib but I know that cure ns will nerf them a lot.

norada wrote:...and some groups run 2 minst now...

Huh? 2 Minstrels in some Alb groups? You play on Uthgard?