Eclipsed wrote:So many are thinking you can freely and easly move the GT with the button, but in truth it does have a small delay when pressing the GT button, and then you can move it and drop it in the new place, and you do have to drop it for the new spot to fire at it, you cant hold it and fire in that spot. There is at least a 1 sec delay on the botton. What people are prob experiencing is the 350 unit range and lag. Add lag to the formula and im sure that 350 radius is a little bigger in game play.

All this is a mission to nerf what they can of the ranger and of archery, like volley, its not allwes someone moving the GT to kill you, but that is some of the focus, so lets nerf that, ok now they cant move the GT. Now i get hit when im standing still, too strong lets make it miss with volley about 50% of the time, ok now volley isnt worth using. OK now lets look at Physical Defense, it just makes the just too hard to kill, lets nerf that about 50% on rangers only or just archers, dont want to nerf it for casters of course, ok now what else, well 1 out of 1000 critshots are actualy good on an enemy, lets nerf that too, lets make it only do 25% more dmg, lets also nerf rapid fire, they fire too fast , its not fair.

What else. How about this lets nerf the reavers rear style proc in flex weapons, lets nerf the infi extra spec points, lets nerf the friars insane absorb and high staff dmg, lets nerf minstral DDs, lets nerf shield slam to 6 sec , 9 sec is just too strong, lets nerf every thing that you dont get because its there way of killing you. Or maybe we should try and not customly nerf everything for every cry baby in this thread lol. Every class has some kinda OP annouying skills. And just because there has been more rangers on the server lately, doesnt mean its because they are just over the top, maybe its because we are in OF where it takes longer to get to action, so for solos people like to be a stealther and with an archer camo stop MoS5 archers in zergs from finding you. And since there is really only one main hot spot that is AMG, there is where youl find like 8 rangers there. Now have 8 rangers firing at one / two targets at the same time, well no da youl die easy.

Use you head and avoid amg when there is tons of archers there, i do when there is tons of enemy stealthers there, which isnt uncommon. If you run into a melee ranger, make sure you use viper3 and everything you got, as that is what the ranger is doing, if you run into a full bow spec ranger, all you have to do is stay in melee range and wipe the floor with there lack of melee skill. GO READ some guides, go watch some videos, go do something else then complain in there.

What lag man.. i asked something..dont tell me to avoid AMG , what guides..what video , here on uthg volley is overpowered and thats it, i walked 300 yards from my spot and Tzaaa kept hiting me with his arrows during volley , i m not sayin that its easy to use volley and to change Gt, but was it posible on Live servers? i never got volleyd like that on Live..and how some1 said up here, i dont think those players were retarded , ppl had GT also and groundset asist and knew how to move em, many TOA ML s s like Forcefull Zephir etc , Storms.. required GT skils, an ability that does 1500+ on me at least in less then 9 seconds.

Just because you have all green and may not notice lag, doesnt mean there isnt at least a little lag, that effects where you really are to the server. Plus moving the GT, he can move it to a max of 2300 units, and when you move in a stright line, its not hard to guess what direction to place the GT again, to contenue to hit you. Predictable behavor is an archers toy. For instant, if you know your enemy will retreat in a line, just set GT for start hits, then ready to move it x units away and wait for them to be in the 350 radius again. Its not that hard. I know for a fact you can at least get about 3-4 arrows on someone running threw the 350 radius, its all about timing.

Geez i wish all us ranger would just suck at are class, then such crying wouldnt happen. If we play are class good, we are OP, if we dont we are balanced, while other classes like pure melee classes or others play there class real good its not OP and its balanced. I think the reasoning is that, people have never liked the archer/ranger, so people automaticly think they should be gimp and easy kills, if not they need to be forced to be gimped.

Why is this discussion still open lol.

bs. there is no nerf needed, just too look in and fix. lag discussion lulz.

its just ridiculous to think that this use of volley now, was invented on uthgard.

oh yea, no other archer in 6 years daoc has ever found out to use volley like those little gimprangers and they all never tryed different specs to see how 50 bow is.

be realistic dude, the archers on live didn't use for nothing volley so much as the archers do it on uthgard. the volley behavior was different on live, thats it why noone used it like this. it didnt do such dmg as here, not in that amount and not in that speed.


(no, im hib)

You know what else they had on live at that time, more Melee rangers and ToA with alot more HP and absorb. Those who spec melee, dont have the use of volley like this, you would have to be speced at least with 45 bow. Also a larger population on live back then. And with fully buffed with buffbots, it would of been better to go with melee , then full bow. Now you could say, well what about before ToA and before new RA system, well volley was a RA back then and had a min range on it, making this use of volley not as possible.

So if we go to 1.65 with old ras that will effect volley because it will be an RA then and have a min range on it. But it will also allow 35 spec bow rangers to have 5 arrow volley that breaks BT. Which im sure that will be the next thing to cry about. Its just non stop.

so if your right, this is the best example that new ra`s dont work with this setup of servertype.

well possibly, i mean we are on OF rvr zone, classic PvE zones, SI classes, with no ToA but ToA RA system. Im confused. I think classic RA system would be intresting, along with older patch and strickly how it was not customizing what you dont like of it, as many want. Yes i know the ranger will lose out on MoS, but true sight will be the next wine thread lol. On top of the old ra volley ablitiy to break all BTs. Heck with such a change to RA's and patch, i dont see the need for liquid buffs ether, many claim its to counter self buffing classes, but if you agrue about that, they claim you can buff too with other buffs, so when it comes down too it, without liquid buffs/charges, that would mean the self buffers cant do the same, so it would be balanced still, only diff is there wouldnt be such a need for blowing money on charges and allow newer players to compete with out every single player running with buffs. But that is another discussion.

Eclipsed wrote:well possibly, i mean we are on OF rvr zone, classic PvE zones, SI classes, with no ToA but ToA RA system. Im confused. I think classic RA system would be intresting, along with older patch and strickly how it was not customizing what you dont like of it, as many want. Yes i know the ranger will lose out on MoS, but true sight will be the next wine thread lol. On top of the old ra volley ablitiy to break all BTs. Heck with such a change to RA's and patch, i dont see the need for liquid buffs ether, many claim its to counter self buffing classes, but if you agrue about that, they claim you can buff too with other buffs, so when it comes down too it, without liquid buffs/charges, that would mean the self buffers cant do the same, so it would be balanced still, only diff is there wouldnt be such a need for blowing money on charges and allow newer players to compete with out every single player running with buffs. But that is another discussion.

OF RAs/1.65 patch will be the death of archers. Who cares about True Sight? It costs 10 points, lasts 60 seconds and is on a 30 minute timer. Assassins can spend 8 points on passive See Hidden and detect you at DD range. You'll miss PD almost as much as MoS when that SB comes out of nowhere and hands you a perf-sandwich. What's that? Your IP is only 20 minutes into its 30 minute cool down? Don't worry, I'm sure it'll be back up by the time the portal mages reach the pad.

But hey, at least there's no Viper 3! Except as an I-WIN button for Nightshades...

Yes, I'm sure the loss of Viper will hit all our Dodger 5 shadowzerkers and slash-infs real hard. Almost as hard as they hit you, as they hand your ass to you.

As for OF Volley, yeah, I can't wait to spend 24 RPs for an inferior version of an ability I get now for free. And why not? IP and Purge will only cost 33 RPs total. What else am I going to spend those points on? Mastery of Water? Hey, Avoid Pain 2 will only cost 19 points. Bargain.

OF RAs/1.65 as a means of balancing this game is a bad joke.

Its easy to complain about the negitives a change, but there is also good changes, like all RA have much higher cost for less things, making high ranked players not so strong, and yes assasins will be harder, but at the same time they will be easyer because of the lack of high dmg from poison. Also it will be nice to fight casters with no PD. There is the good and bad of both new RA system and old. And OF volley RA is only 14 pts, and you also get Long shot with it, which is on a 5 min timer. And there is also an RA called Avoid Pain and for 19 pts you get Aug Con 3 and AP 2 which is 20% absorb for 60 sec on a 15min timer. May not be as good as PD, but still can be useful.

Eclipsed wrote:Its easy to complain about the negitives a change, but there is also good changes, like all RA have much higher cost for less things, making high ranked players not so strong, and yes assasins will be harder, but at the same time they will be easyer because of the lack of high dmg from poison. Also it will be nice to fight casters with no PD. There is the good and bad of both new RA system and old. And OF volley RA is only 14 pts, and you also get Long shot with it, which is on a 5 min timer. And there is also an RA called Avoid Pain and for 19 pts you get Aug Con 3 and AP 2 which is 20% absorb for 60 sec on a 15min timer. May not be as good as PD, but still can be useful.

Eclipsed, if you really look at the OF RAs you'll see how badly it gimps archers. Volley costs 24 points total. You have to buy Long Shot (10 points) to get Volley (14 points). Long Shot is awful! 10 points for a 150% range bonus normal shot with no damage bonus, no BT penetration, and it's on a 10 minute timer, not 5.

http://web.archive.org/web/200312071632 ... unter.html

You spend 19 points total for Avoid Pain 2 (15 minute timer), and 33 points total for IP and Purge (30 minute timer).

Let's count up all the abilities:

True Sight - 10 points (30 minutes)
First Aid 2 - 9 points (15 minutes)
IP - 14 points (30 minutes)
Purge - 10 points (30 minutes)
Long Shot - 10 points (10 minutes)
Volley - 14 points
Aug Con 3 - 10 points
Avoid Pain - 9 points (15 minutes)

You've paid 86 RPs for abilities that are on 15 or 30 minute timers. Only Aug Con 3 and Volley give a passive benefit (we'll count volley since its timer is only 15 seconds).

Let me point out that Assassins can get Rain of Fire/Ice/Annihilation, which completely bypasses Avoid Pain. Rain of [x] 2 only costs 9 points (there is no stat pre-req for it). Or the Assassin can spend 19 points for Rain of [x] 3 and get a 30% elemental damage buff for 60 seconds. Actually, no, don't do that. Instead, take 2 different Rain of [x] abilities, and activate them at the same time! You pay 18 points and get a 40% elemental damage boost for 60 seconds. Or spend 27 points for a 60% damage boost!

El-Oh-El.

Please tell me how OF RAs will balance the stealth war. The only archer class that will be playable will be the Scout (shield slam + crit shot).

I was basing the old ra's from what i seen in my char planner, that says what i said. So ether that isnt currect or later on some skills had been reduced in points. And yes assasins cant get those elemental dmg adds, kinda like how the ranger gets a 9.4 damage add, but since its based on damage you done, like 10% of dmg you did, would that be dmg after resists or before, because if its after resists, then AP will reduce it. And even then those damage adds will never give as much bonus as VIPER 3 gives.

But you shouldnt look at it all in a narrow view, as i said there is the good and bad. Im ether or for new or old ra system, but expect great game play changes with old ra system, for the better and worse. But remember new ra system is based on a toa system.

also i like to add that with old RAs viper may be gone, but there will be dodger 5 instead. ever fought a high dex evade 7 class with dodger5?
especially with the current miss rate fix which screwed up the hit rates big time there is no way in hell to meele them down.
you aint got magic damage, you aint gonna hurt em.

they may kill you slower then they would with viper, but at least atm you CAN actually kill them before the dot takes you down.


i still propose customizing the current RA set as the most logical choice.

old ras SUCKED. new ras suck too, but in a more specific way.

there are some (very very limited) upsides to old ras, or they may be, i cant think of any of the top of my mind except cheap tank det and 4 pts purge (30 min rut) and the fact that the old counterparts to some new ras where so bad, but aside from that...

do you really, really belive that replacing a system that has a small number of specific flaws with a flawed system is the way to go?

mythic tweaked around on the old ras constantly and in the end just scrapped it overall. that wasnt just made for NF. NF just offered a good timing for an overhauled system. we just miss adjustments that make it fit to our server - like mythic constantly adjusts things to fit their servers.

i said it many times and i said it over and over again until it sinks in:

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AT NO POINT IN TIME DAOC WAS EVER BALANCED OR EVEN HALFWAY FINISHED.
MYTHICS MAIN GOAL WAS TO MAKE MONEY, THAT MEANS KEEP PEOPLE PAYING, THAT MEANS TO !NOT! BALANCE.

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if things are unbalanced, a part will always roll the current FTOM. the other part will "stick it out" till the next patch hoping their class will get some love too soon.


15-30 minutes reuse timer on EVERYTHING? really? and some of you have the nerve to yell at the staff for reducing the port times to ONLY half the live time instead of making it basicly instant?

you REALLY want the REAL classic times back, where you could be logged in for 10 hours straight and achive less then you can here in 2?


recently there are things implemented which begs me the question: does the staff wants this too?
there are things copied from live which just dont work here, which dont make sense, which are counterproductive, whcih should have NOT implemented.
on the other had there are things that BADLY need adressing, but because we are fixed on a specific point in time in the development process of daoc they wont get adressed because mythic never felt that the potential loss in customers would outweight the effort OR that it just wasnt important enough to get a higher priority then lets say PUSHING ANOTHER ADDON OUT that provided another few FOTM classes to try out, a few new zones to visit and a lot of mobs with a lot of uber mods to grind so no one would care about the long existing issues at least for a little while.

and now they apparently thinking of going back to an even closer-to-beta patchlimit, REMOVING things that should have been in the game from launch!


i honestly cant understand what going on here, what the goal is.
gradually downgrading to open beta? going back till there is nothing left that needs to be adressed in the first place?



i played a lot. i mean, really hardcore for 3 years.
mythic never caught up with the imbalances they introduced and THEY DID NOT GIVE A ******. you know how damn hard we players worked to get many dozend thing fixed? players? working harder then the developers? and what did mythic reply over and over? na, dont care. wont get fixed. ah yes that is indeed a critical thing to fix. maybe after the next addon. maybe after the second addond, depends on the manpower. but it will get fixed. eventually. after all, its critical.

im out, i could go on for so much longer that it would overcap the input limit.

you understand what im trying to tell you guys?
stop trying to patch working things to ******, fix the ****** thats not working^^
make the best daoc possible, dont just imitate the mistakes of a company that doesnt give a ******, i beg you!

You my friend are one of the few sensible people that inhabit this server.

I hope the staff gives it a second thought when (and IF) they read your post.

/salute

BlackCougar wrote: Great post...

Will probably get the standard answer: Custom balance wouldn't be livelike

Evade rate should cap at 50% before defense penetration modifies that number down. If the RA is implemented properly an infiltrator would cap using buf charges around dodger 2. Friars may go dodger 3/4 to cap.

Volley on uthgard is custom made , i m prety sure of this.

@ Eclipsed I want to know if on live you could change GT during firing the volley, can you anwer me to this question?