Satiah wrote:You are talking about mid keeps? Not possible with those...

I guesss I wasn't there? Because yeah, shrooms place through the window on the left where the keep lords seem to be perpetually stuck, and within like 2 minutes of the outer being down, I'm being attacked by Hib keep guards. No ram was placed on the inner. I don't even think there would've been time to build it.

And in any case, even if weren't possible in Mid keeps, it would still be an exploit.

joshisanonymous wrote:

Satiah wrote:You are talking about mid keeps? Not possible with those...

I guesss I wasn't there? Because yeah, shrooms place through the window on the left where the keep lords seem to be perpetually stuck, and within like 2 minutes of the outer being down, I'm being attacked by Hib keep guards. No ram was placed on the inner. I don't even think there would've been time to build it.

And in any case, even if weren't possible in Mid keeps, it would still be an exploit.

What you experienced was Focus Pet vs Lord. Keep lords in mid/alb keeps will attack players in the CY, and behind the keep if close enough. Player with focus pet can put pet on aggro and if the keep lord shoots that player the pet will go to the lord and engage. Focus shield is put up and healers use group heal to keep pet alive. Lord dies. There is no need to break doors, although you get very little RPs for doing this vs breaking doors. Can't be done on Hib keeps as the lord is too high up and/or never attacks players in the CY with his bow. This is s similar tactic as sending wall climbers to the lord at Nott/Eras/Crim where the 2 front doors do not need to be broken either.

The shrooms placed in mid keep windows are used to hit players hiding inside and cannot hit the lord whether he is stuck in the wall or up at the top. That is only possible at alb keeps, due to the low placement of the lord and his windows.

As the previous comment points out this was focus pet vs lord and not shrooms vs lord.

The greater issue here is that you dishonestly assert that your group wanted to fight players at all. Perhaps you yourself did and I commend you for that, but your group sadly and obviously didn't. Why else choose to attack two level 1 keeps and then log off instead of looking for INC? Do you actually expect that the enemy players are like firefighters standing by a warm truck with their gear all set to go ready to respond to an alert? You should know and understand the time it takes to build a group and port and run to a keep is longer than it took your group to take those two low level keeps. Show some accountability here because this is a clear demonstration of a group that could have very well ran towards HPK to intercept INC, or even keep the second keep on fire instead of flipping it so to set a trap, yet that didn't occur. Why? To me this just illustrates a very conscientious and calculated effort to take empty keeps and avoid INC.

And so to this I will requote you:

joshisanonymous wrote:And in the end of the day, you're going to drive any returning players away from this server quickly with this crap.

Antiks wrote:As the previous comment points out this was focus pet vs lord and not shrooms vs lord.

The greater issue here is that you dishonestly assert that your group wanted to fight players at all. Perhaps you yourself did and I commend you for that, but your group sadly and obviously didn't. Why else choose to attack two level 1 keeps and then log off instead of looking for INC? Do you actually expect that the enemy players are like firefighters standing by a warm truck with their gear all set to go ready to respond to an alert? You should know and understand the time it takes to build a group and port and run to a keep is longer than it took your group to take those two low level keeps. Show some accountability here because this is a clear demonstration of a group that could have very well ran towards HPK to intercept INC, or even keep the second keep on fire instead of flipping it so to set a trap, yet that didn't occur. Why? To me this just illustrates a very conscientious and calculated effort to take empty keeps and avoid INC.

And so to this I will requote you:

joshisanonymous wrote:And in the end of the day, you're going to drive any returning players away from this server quickly with this crap.

Huh? I don't agree with what the group I was in did, but what the hell are you going on about? We're talking about exploits and you're somehow making that into blaming my group for making RvR boring by not defending.

The thing that will drive returning players away is trying to find something/anything at all to do in the frontier only to have the first encounter in hours of trying to find encounters end in a blatant exploit. Shrooms through windows is an exploit. Pulling lords with pets before the doors are even down is an exploit. That's the topic here.

Well perhaps when Genjiro has time to look into those things he can figure out some ways to mitigate it.

But that still won't change that some don't actually want to fight other players which is the bigger issue, in my opinion. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you had a group with you defending and those exploits were used against you. If there was a healer they could mez/stun the shrooms/pets and stop that, and if there were some casters they could aoe nuke/bomb them and it would force the siege of the keep via rams. Point is there are ways to counter these things instead of just quitting. Just saying.

Amazing how much more fun DaoC would have been without animists.

Sieges, Milegates, and framerate would all have been significantly more fun.
And maybe ML's wouldn't have had to be amped up to 11 to account for shrooms.

A class that has to be limited by how much, and where, it can cast, outside of standard limitations, is a really bad idea.

Antiks wrote:Well perhaps when Genjiro has time to look into those things he can figure out some ways to mitigate it.

But that still won't change that some don't actually want to fight other players which is the bigger issue, in my opinion. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you had a group with you defending and those exploits were used against you. If there was a healer they could mez/stun the shrooms/pets and stop that, and if there were some casters they could aoe nuke/bomb them and it would force the siege of the keep via rams. Point is there are ways to counter these things instead of just quitting. Just saying.

Right, you can still win against enemies who are using exploits. No one would deny that. That doesn't make the exploits okay. And it's freaking weird to blame any returning players who quit over this sort of thing instead of blaming the exploiters. What is a returning player supposed to do when they don't have a group or even more than two other level 50s logged onto the server to counter the exploiters? What should they think when it's taken them hours just to get action where they are heavily outmatched but still willing to try only to find that they're losing to exploits on top of all that? They should just figure a way to counter instead of quitting? How?

It's one thing to come back to the server and lose because numbers are just not in your favor. It's another thing to lose because apparently the norm is to use exploits. The latter is far more frustrating and will naturally lead to returning players deciding not to return very quickly.

joshisanonymous wrote:Right, you can still win against enemies who are using exploits. No one would deny that. That doesn't make the exploits okay.

joshisanonymous wrote: They should just figure a way to counter instead of quitting? How?

You went full circle to end up contradicting yourself

joshisanonymous wrote: And it's freaking weird to blame any returning players who quit over this sort of thing instead of blaming the exploiters. What is a returning player supposed to do when they don't have a group or even more than two other level 50s logged onto the server to counter the exploiters? What should they think when it's taken them hours just to get action where they are heavily outmatched but still willing to try only to find that they're losing to exploits on top of all that?

Well speaking for myself I was at one point a returning player. At that time I only had characters on Albion and I observed that the majority of the population was in Alb so I chose to go over to Hib to start fresh even knowing that there were literally less then a group of people left on HIb and that most of them were not even on during my time zone. When I logged in I was one of three total online so I can obviously relate to your sentiment. The difference is that regardless of that disparity I persevered and built up and encouraged others to do the same when I saw them and we not only built up our characters but a rapport with each other so that we could eventually accomplish more. Arguably Hib has more players now then it has in the last 2.5 years since I started there and I like to attribute some of that to those efforts. Prior to that I/we had to endure the exploits of others and yes I/we found ways to counter them when applicable. When we couldn't we just accepted the lumps and took the losses but we came back out another day. That's is what you do when you love the game.

Spivo wrote:Amazing how much more fun DaoC would have been without animists.

Sieges, Milegates, and framerate would all have been significantly more fun.
And maybe ML's wouldn't have had to be amped up to 11 to account for shrooms.

A class that has to be limited by how much, and where, it can cast, outside of standard limitations, is a really bad idea.

The fact that you complain about animists instead of archers says enough rly.

You keep talking about exploits, what or who defines what an exploit is?
I don't think the player or players but the gamemasters here.
Nobody denies that there are bugs / exploits here and we hope that some of them will be eliminated, but the discussion about the animists or how keeps "must" be raided is completely devoid of any discussion.
We play here because we want to have fun and, precisely because we are outnumbered, we try to get the best out of our characters. The casting time for a mushroom is 5 seconds, placing the Gt correctly is often very tricky or very difficult. Animists are very easy to kill.
Just because you lose more often or play styles have changed does not mean that you are not allowed to play that way or that it is about exploits.
The biggest problem on the server is still the people who do not want to / cannot adapt to the new situation / style of play.

Greetings Rudra / Irela / Partymonster

Antiks wrote:Well speaking for myself I was at one point a returning player. At that time I only had characters on Albion and I observed that the majority of the population was in Alb so I chose to go over to Hib to start fresh even knowing that there were literally less then a group of people left on HIb and that most of them were not even on during my time zone. When I logged in I was one of three total online so I can obviously relate to your sentiment. The difference is that regardless of that disparity I persevered and built up and encouraged others to do the same when I saw them and we not only built up our characters but a rapport with each other so that we could eventually accomplish more. Arguably Hib has more players now then it has in the last 2.5 years since I started there and I like to attribute some of that to those efforts. Prior to that I/we had to endure the exploits of others and yes I/we found ways to counter them when applicable. When we couldn't we just accepted the lumps and took the losses but we came back out another day. That's is what you do when you love the game.

Glad that you have so much perseverence, but it's this sort of folly that has led to Uthgard's downfall in the first place. Maybe you were willing to put up with exploits when trying to find action on a dead server, but I guarantee you that you are in the extreme minority. I'm still logging in myself, but I'm gone as soon as another stable shard opens. There's no reason to stick around on a server with difficult settings to begin with where the only players left find exploits totally acceptable and the GMs have signed out even when they finally are in a position to capitalize on players not having anywhere else to go. When I and any others who were willing to give this server another shot are gone again because of this stuff, you won't have to worry about people coming here to complain about exploits; all 12 of you left on the server can go back to enjoying them in peace.

Antiks wrote:As the previous comment points out this was focus pet vs lord and not shrooms vs lord.

The greater issue here is that you dishonestly assert that your group wanted to fight players at all. Perhaps you yourself did and I commend you for that, but your group sadly and obviously didn't. Why else choose to attack two level 1 keeps and then log off instead of looking for INC? Do you actually expect that the enemy players are like firefighters standing by a warm truck with their gear all set to go ready to respond to an alert? You should know and understand the time it takes to build a group and port and run to a keep is longer than it took your group to take those two low level keeps. Show some accountability here because this is a clear demonstration of a group that could have very well ran towards HPK to intercept INC, or even keep the second keep on fire instead of flipping it so to set a trap, yet that didn't occur. Why? To me this just illustrates a very conscientious and calculated effort to take empty keeps and avoid INC.

that's because wickednerd has dodger 5 and doesn't know how to play the game.

Woud'nt more sense a GM comment this issue? Forum fights will certainly not solve a problem. We all play on a low population server together.

i hope GM won't waste his time with all this crap ^^

Eorkern wrote:i hope GM won't waste his time with all this crap ^^

Ya think you're right and GMs better focus all resources on getting dragons back. ; )