pweet wrote:If you quick cast an ice pet on uth to peel off a tank on uth the ice pet will always start with a nuke. On live it starts with a melee attack and will start nuking as soon as you start spring ting. I think that's the main difference.

Y but that's different from the statement that ice pet "wont stop casting until killed". That implies somehow that the ice pet has moc which is obviously not the case.

Blue wrote:Are there issues in the bugtracker for each of the mentioned problems? I know that there is an issue for the cast stop after a melee hit. How about the others?

You marked my thread as duplicate.

Ice pets should not need a hit to enter melee mode. In my thread I showed they should enter melee when the target enters a certain range (which is farther than melee range).

It literally requires 0 action by the player except running near the pet for it to enter melee mode.

This is why Ice Pets were never highly used on live servers compared to Earth Pets.

Blue I appreciate all the work you're doing for us to be able to play this server. Please consider moving this issue up to a high priority on your to-do list.

There has been an open issue for ice pets for 56 days now. You have a guy out every night taking advantage this bug and it effects everyone who's RvRing regularly during that time.

No one wants to feel like they are at an unfair disadvantage due to bug abuse. My group wants to log in less and less having to deal with this every night.

My thread had 50 priority upvotes in a few days, it should give an indication of how important it is to people that this is fixed.

Top wrote:My thread had 50 priority upvotes in a few days, it should give an indication of how important it is to people that this is fixed.

Your issue was created and upvoted, while the other same issue was there already and only got 8 votes. I can fix that issue but won't touch changing mode to melee for higher range than melee range.

This theu fix will not help you. Alb is superior at this patch level that is why 8v8 is frustrating for the rest and that is set with the patch level. Won't change.

Since you indirectly and viciouly called me out as a bug abuser, I feel like I need to defend myself. It is not my responsibility to know the subtle differences between uthgard and live and report immediately to uthgard authorities when my class is overperforming in some aspect. I try to play my class to its strengths and according to the server meta, and this is using all the server specific tools ( ice pets on tanks). There is nothing wrong with that, and there is no need for your namecalling. Also every other active theurgist is playing in similar style, its just that you had to go ahead and mention me just because im super active and playing with buds who are also awesome and also because your group setup and gameplay does very poorly against us. I'm sure you wouldnt have mentioned anything if our group wasnt around, and the reason is obvious.Other alb groups with theurgists dont do nearly as well. There are also other ways that you can deal with ice pets and that is to play a more well rounded setup, with nearsight and pet clear.Your gameplay as it is, consists of tanks pushing in until they win or die, never looking back and overextending like crazy.Its a pretty crude and easy way to play , easily countered even without ice pets by any decent hybrid group ( midgard hybrid group as well) with good peelers/disease roots on supports and nearsight. Please also keep in mind that there are more broken things in 1.65 than ice pets.Nearsight is one, Sos is another. Hibernia as a realm has the nearsight advantage but you consistently choose not to run with an eldrich.That is your failure and for that you can only blame yourselves.Ice pets will get nerfed eventually, but i doubt it will change anything for you if you continue down this road.The only difference is then you will have noone to blame/namecall.

You've played a theurgist before, you should know how the pets work.

Stop trying to defend a broken mechanic. It's not your fault it's broken, and I'd be abusing it too if I were on alb but it's bad for the health of the server and needs to be addressed.

Anyway, aside from claiming to not understand your own class mechanics, you might consider putting down the whole paper daocing thing if you can't even tell what classes you're fighting against. Who knows maybe it's just hard to see from back there behind a wall of ice pets.

http://www.incguild.com/herald/player/find/Reggie

Top wrote:You've played a theurgist before, you should know how the pets work.

Stop trying to defend a broken mechanic. It's not your fault it's broken, and I'd be abusing it too if I were on alb but it's bad for the health of the server and needs to be addressed.

Anyway, aside from claiming to not understand your own class mechanics, you might consider putting down the whole paper daocing thing if you can't even tell what classes you're fighting against. Who knows maybe it's just hard to see from back there behind a wall of ice pets.

http://www.incguild.com/herald/player/find/Reggie

15 years ago was the last time i ran an ice theurgist, it was after 1.65 and ice pets were good but I dont remember the specific mechanics .
The mechanic is not broken at all per se. Ice pet is a nuking pet that stops nuking when interrupted and after 4-5 seconds of not being interrupted , it starts nuking again.It seems perfectly reasonable logic wise, thats what a caster would do. It works similar to a caster. The live version that apparently goes into perma melee mode , if anything, feels like really broken compared to the one here.
I did not exactly remember your specific group until later, most hib tank groups unlike yours dont run eldrich. I would have remembered it more clearly though were u utlizing it more for pet clears and if i was getting nsed more often.I hope ice pets get nerfed before u call it quits, maybe u can win a couple of fights then for a change , and if not... u can always make another issue tracker post.

oooof.. this is getting dirty.

Top wrote:You've played a theurgist before, you should know how the pets work.

Stop trying to defend a broken mechanic. It's not your fault it's broken, and I'd be abusing it too if I were on alb but it's bad for the health of the server and needs to be addressed.

Anyway, aside from claiming to not understand your own class mechanics, you might consider putting down the whole paper daocing thing if you can't even tell what classes you're fighting against. Who knows maybe it's just hard to see from back there behind a wall of ice pets.

http://www.incguild.com/herald/player/find/Reggie

been seeing a lot more hib tankers lately, that's for sure. (probably has something to do with relics. previously it was 3-4 caster )

Anyway, I've seen a ton of 5 natty/3tank or 4/4 setups, I can only remember 1 particular fight against a group that ran a solo Light Eld. However I only play about half the week. Can't speak for the other half.

So yeah maybe they exist in your guild or whatever, but I haven't personally seen many tankers running them.

Not saying 1 setup is necessarily superior, probably depends a lot on the skill of the players behind the keyboards, but I agree with pbuk that people seem very unwilling to even attempt other methods(nearsight/pet clears) to deal with theurg, and the vast majority of groups just throw tanks at him.

Pbuk plays theurgist well, but without bugged ice pets I'd be willing to bet our win ratio would probably double. An eld might give us a better chance, but only specifically vs your group. Not to mention it's not easy to do. I'm sure your mercs/minst wouldn't let him sit free near sighting and pushing at will. One class should not completely break a tank group right now and that's what's happening, the snare doesn't diminish and the pets don't melee it's really hard on tank groups. But even with that we have beaten you guys, the real problem is sos right now. But we're evolving and coming up with plans that have worked vs you guys. But the ice pet fix will really help


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Top wrote:If you played some solo eld setup on toa or NF etc, THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS OLD FRONTIERS AND IS NOT RELEVANT.

A solo NS caster is fine vs groups that have casters. It is BAD vs full tank groups.

That's why Mids can run a solo RM and be successful, because they do not fight tank groups regularly.

Hibs don't have that luxury and will get punished hard for running a solo caster.

what class do you log on before inc'ing mid groups?

as a hib, I feel we have to pick our poison... tank grps against albs is a tough fight due to the merc and ice pets controlling pushing tanks and the minstrel controlling your support/eld. Yes a great solo minstrel with his red pet ties down a support/eld. Only way to deal with the minstrel is adding a tank resource to help the support/eld, which then creates a hole in your push and nearsights and allowing the casters to get loose and its gameover. Add SoS/BoF to the equation and its a very frustrating night..

Dealing with albs means running a multiple caster setup which is fairly easy to deal with by a mid split push... not even going to go into the details here.

so were in the situation of picking our poison right now and most hib grps were running the tanker setups to deal with the over abundant mid grp's. But all of a sudden, the mid groups are disappearing and the poison may be choosing to be stronger verse albs.

Pbuck wrote:

The mechanic is not broken at all per se. Ice pet is a nuking pet that stops nuking when interrupted and after 4-5 seconds of not being interrupted , it starts nuking again.It seems perfectly reasonable logic wise, thats what a caster would do. It works similar to a caster. The live version that apparently goes into perma melee mode , if anything, feels like really broken compared to the one here.

Still a huge difference in viability between the two. Ice pets were bad. Statdebuff/amnesia/run in range/ basically anything makes them perma melee.

Ozean wrote:Pbuk plays theurgist well, but without bugged ice pets I'd be willing to bet our win ratio would probably double. An eld might give us a better chance, but only specifically vs your group. Not to mention it's not easy to do. I'm sure your mercs/minst wouldn't let him sit free near sighting and pushing at will. One class should not completely break a tank group right now and that's what's happening, the snare doesn't diminish and the pets don't melee it's really hard on tank groups. But even with that we have beaten you guys, the real problem is sos right now. But we're evolving and coming up with plans that have worked vs you guys. But the ice pet fix will really help


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Double of zero is ?

Unless we're counting fights where people decide to not pull off

Also I like how people are saying stat debuffs should interrupt the ice pets. Who has stat debuffs in a group with 4 tanks and 4 healers?

Ensley03 wrote:

Ozean wrote:Pbuk plays theurgist well, but without bugged ice pets I'd be willing to bet our win ratio would probably double. An eld might give us a better chance, but only specifically vs your group. Not to mention it's not easy to do. I'm sure your mercs/minst wouldn't let him sit free near sighting and pushing at will. One class should not completely break a tank group right now and that's what's happening, the snare doesn't diminish and the pets don't melee it's really hard on tank groups. But even with that we have beaten you guys, the real problem is sos right now. But we're evolving and coming up with plans that have worked vs you guys. But the ice pet fix will really help


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Double of zero is ?

Unless we're counting fights where people decide to not pull off

Also I like how people are saying stat debuffs should interrupt the ice pets. Who has stat debuffs in a group with 4 tanks and 4 healers?

What Charades meant to say was yes, ice pets are part of why we do so well against tanker groups, and you guys run a very solid tanker group so any nerfs to ice pets would increase your performance against us.

If you guys aren't the type of group to pull off a fight when a 2nd hib group adds in it is completely fine/up to you guys. You guys show us a lot of respect when you see us fighting other 8 mans, so thank you very much for that.