i mostly agree with the original poster, some new RA's are way out of Balance.

i dont play a melee class on this Server (played them on live) but many casters and supporters. isnt it sad that any stealther can kill a caster without a chance for the caster to surveive. dont even speak about to escape or even kill the stealther. is it the intention that you cant realy play a caster in rvr solo? Either you die by instant trough a stealther or a charge tank will steamroll you.

Viper and charge are the new RA's that have the most negative Impact on those players that do not choose a class that have one of this tools.

This is well known since a long time now and as much as i like how the devs work, here they fail miserably. its a shame.

Ormilig wrote:

Blackbeard_ wrote:

GreenP wrote:I think i can translate that one.


Arms = wasted slot

dont think so..but 90% by albs think so

Its kinda the same story with Savage in mid. So many people think its a useless class because he has no Charge and is bad against a guarded target. But still if played in the right Setup, with decent people it is a devastating char who can easily destroy his target by himself.

Armsman is just an awesome char. I'd rather pick an Armsman than following the current FOTM with a Reaver. But people are lazy and some are too dumb to play chars/setups which are challenging or at least harder.

agree!!!

Celteen wrote:With working Bolt damage fire wizard is a valueable char and even now it is not that gimped with a good spec.
Slaming the BM 2 bolts on sorc debuff + highest spec nuke ingame, which should result in some nice damage spikes even atm
Playing ice and complaining about damage well not much to say about it.

Animist has the highest at 225 value

But the wizzy's is still better DPS with 2.8 cast time. Although lifetapping at the same time as the bomber hits screws up the whole comparison.

Bolts won't be fixed anytime soon sadly.

catania wrote:i mostly agree with the original poster, some new RA's are way out of Balance.

i dont play a melee class on this Server (played them on live) but many casters and supporters. isnt it sad that any stealther can kill a caster without a chance for the caster to surveive. dont even speak about to escape or even kill the stealther. is it the intention that you cant realy play a caster in rvr solo? Either you die by instant trough a stealther or a charge tank will steamroll you.

Viper and charge are the new RA's that have the most negative Impact on those players that do not choose a class that have one of this tools.

This is well known since a long time now and as much as i like how the devs work, here they fail miserably. its a shame.

I have seen several casters do fine in the solo game. Bombarlo on his SM would take down stealthers left and right. There are several good sorc's that play very well solo. Theurg can be a very tough solo class in RvR. Please duel Zai on any of his casters and tell me they cant kill a stealther. Yes, if an assasin can get perf off and drop viper the chances of the caster living are slim, but do you all not realise that this game is not meant to be that every class can kill every other class? It is supposed to be this way. Paper/Rock/Scissors does not mean every class can beat every other class. On live it wasnt like casters destroyed stealthers. As a matter of fact, on live with Old RA's about the only class an archer could kill with any sort of consistant success was solo casters.

Every class has its good and bad matchups. I will admit that assasins probably have the least amount of weak matchups, but I see assasins get killed all the time by other classes. No matter what patch setting, Old or New RA's, or anything else you do there will be some classes that are a bit more powerful than other classes. The only way to get around this is to do mirror images of each class and that is boring and has proven to not be what gamers want. So assasin may kill you on your caster, but the reaver coming around can pop him w/ aoe and destroy him, or the ranger with camo up and all RA's up will kill him. Then the shaman comes around and kites and kills the reaver with no problem. Maybe a thane comes around and whips the rangers butt. You see, every class has its bad matchup to combat it. If you are worried about killing stealthers then make a class that is meant to do that. Dont complain because your class that was never meant to kill stealthers gets killed by them.

Paper/Rock/Scissors

excellent, but some classes get beat by evertyhing 1 on 1 witht the exception of afk

speaking about casters being killers in rvr is just wrong. a SM that can kill a sneak is realy danger for the sneak...he might choose to just not attack this oponent. the visible does not have this choice. the majority of casters do not have the tools to do sucessfull 1 vs 1 rvr. melee classes do way better and they do way better in groups aswell. maybe alb casters like high rr sorcs, theurigists, and for midgard the SM, but for hibernia the caster realm no caster is realy set for 1 vs 1, and tough for groupings. when someone is looking for DPS in rvr usualy it means charge-tank.

Seriously, do you really complain about Visis that are not able to avoid fights like stealthers, or what?

And well...

but for hibernia the caster realm no caster is realy set for 1 vs 1, and tough for groupings.

You really should play Alb or Mid and get stunnuked by those f00king elds. And well.. if charge is up, the tank is fine. If Charge is down, you get pwned by the no-dmg-dealing hibcasters. You should really swap realms to enjoy the insta-death when meeting hib-castersetups.

catania wrote:Paper/Rock/Scissors

excellent, but some classes get beat by evertyhing 1 on 1 witht the exception of afk

speaking about casters being killers in rvr is just wrong. a SM that can kill a sneak is realy danger for the sneak...he might choose to just not attack this oponent. the visible does not have this choice. the majority of casters do not have the tools to do sucessfull 1 vs 1 rvr.

Stealthing is an ability unique to certain classes. My stealthers cant heal people, they cant use dirty tricks, leviathan, nukes, AoE spams, they cant run around non stop on speed, etc. Once again, you cant say, "Its unfair because stealthers can avoid fights and we cant..." That is all part of the class. Please, make a stealther. Go out and RvR as a solo player and tell me just how easy it really is. Yah, if you want to make a ranger/scout/hunter and sit back from afar and put arrows in fights and add in than its not to hard. Any other form of playing actually does take skill. Assasins do die to other classes all the time. Ranged stealthers die all the time. So do tanks, casters, and support. When I hear a visi toon saying it is unfair because they cant stealth/don't have viper/don't have bow then I want to say fine, you want those for your visi toon? Great, then give my stealther heals so he is actually groupable. Give my stealther group buffs, endo, BM/Zerker DPS, I want to be able to nearsight and cast disease... You see how that sounds? You picked a caster. Casters, for the most part, are not meant to be able to solo around. If you want a solo caster then play some of the more soloable versions of casters like SM, Bone Dancer, Sorc, or Theurg. I have been killed solo on my ranger and hunter on multiple people on each of these toons. Otherwise make a normal solo toon such as a stealther, champ, vw, merc, bm, thane, reaver, or friar. Any of those do well against stealthers if they are well played.

stealther was die most of time yeah thats right caus the steealther many time groupt and gank solos and they make small grps with a mos bot and gank you cause you add them i see it msny times of my arms dont tell me stealther are bad or caster have fair chance stealther pa you and then caster die with only 1 hit if caster try mezz you you purge and use vanish or use directly vanish or ranger attack you from far kit with rr5 and then the target die but i can make 100 fights with you with wizzard an i die 100 yeah wizzard have no mezz but on life 2 carst and and a stealther die i play realy long daoc and i think i can sax when anything is unfair or not melee classes have alll good thing from the patch but where are the carsting speed ??? on OF you have spec it with ra points on toa 36 dey overcap and 10 % on items so tell me it is fair stealther have viper/vanish or tanks charge ? and caster have no chance to get higher carsting speed ? it is unbalnced thats is sure .

Your playstyle, resourcefulness, adaptability, realm rank and template will get you more fair play than asking for removal of any abilities you have deemed unfair.. in that order. charge/viper are nice abilities but by no means not immune from being countered if you're willing to stop and think the situation through.

Force wrote:I understand you disagree Ron, but I don't see your reasoning to be honest. When you go through the min requisite RAs for example in Old RAs, you'll find that you can have everything you need to compete at around RR5 or RR6. Being another 2-3 realm levels above that afford minimal additional gains, as you've already picked up the important RAs at their most effective or needed levels.

In New RAs, youll see (especially in certain classes) a need for RR9-11 to get the requisite RAs. The cost and scaling here are to blame.

Groups in Old RAs at RR5 could kill groups that were RR9+ much easier. An RR4 groups that caught an RR9 group with its 30 minute RUT abilities down, and had their 30 minute RUT abilities up could win. In NF that basically never happens.

Its RR5L9 for instant purge and DET5 in New RAs, not RR4L9. At 4L9 you get 5 second delay purge.


Your examples about how the NF RAs might potentially counter each other is misguided. The counter to PD is legendary weapons. The counter to viper was increased HP pool/resists from champlevels/toa. The counter to charge was bodyguard, warguard stacking with SB etc...we don't have that setting, NF balance is completely broken by that. Old RAs is very well balanced for our setting.

... this!!!!!

ppl complain for nothing, these are things that must be clear to everyone that have any idea how doac work (and worked back in the days).

this actual system is crap and i don't understand why admins don't realize it. We all are playing something that never existed on live, and playing a game that have nothing to spare the real "feel" of daoc. We have impact on everything, 8mens, and solo fights.

ADMINS SAY WE CAN'T GO BACK OLD RA's?
ok, so implement things that are supposed to be with new ra's.
legg weapons, catacombs/toa bonuses (not artefacts, i mean hp's / mana pool bonuses, caster speed bonus, +melee dmg +caster dmg +casting speed etc etc).
... and , ok, we will play a real daoc with new ra's settings

ADMINS WANT GO REAL OLD CLASSIC FEEL?
implement old ra's and let us play daoc like it should be

gg for your post Force, i agree 100%

we are playing in a setting that did never exist on live, that's true. It still doesn't mean that the classic stat/ new ra mix is bad or doesn't work. There are some abillities that are quite strong in the current setting, but saying that pd needs legendary weapons to be countered or that charge is overpowered without BG is so wrong. There are various options to counter every class or realm ability.
The overall balance in this setting is still pretty good.

there are allways counters but very strange ones

pd=>leg wep
charge=> bodyguard

this would be livelike

realac0 wrote:ADMINS SAY WE CAN'T GO BACK OLD RA's?
ok, so implement things that are supposed to be with new ra's.
legg weapons, catacombs/toa bonuses (not artefacts, i mean hp's / mana pool bonuses, caster speed bonus, +melee dmg +caster dmg +casting speed etc etc).
... and , ok, we will play a real daoc with new ra's settings

ADMINS WANT GO REAL OLD CLASSIC FEEL?
implement old ra's and let us play daoc like it should be

I could not agree more with your first comment. Its not that Admins dont want to go with Old RA's it is EXACTLY what I stated above. A) You could never test many of the Old RA's meaning you could never make sure they were working properly and B) Its taken us 7+ years to get the RA's we have and alot of them are still not working. So, its not that they dont want to put in Old RA's, it is simply that putting them in would be way more work and time and that more work and time outweight the benefits. That is it.

Now I agree with you that IF they dont want to go with Old RA's then maybe look into implemented ToA bonuses on Classic items or possibly implementing Legendary Weapons with elemental dmg. As Nef stated, there is always multiple ways to counteract balance issues.

What bothers me is that so many people here act like going to Old RA's is a fix all, and it most certainly is not. It does not fix ANYTHING, it simply changes who the weak and strong classes are. That is it. Why you cant see this is beyond me. Its a classic case of grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

@ Cammes- I have no clue how to respond to you at this point. I have given character names that PROVE that a solo caster CAN kill an assasin. I have given multiple examples about why your logic is sooooo flawed its not even funny. I'm done arguing with you. If assasin is so powerful and stealthers rule the world then I guess hop on the band wagon. Make a stealther. Please PM in game or on the forums in about 6 months and please tell me just how easy it is. It only took me 3 years to make one to RR10, I'm sure you can do it WAY faster since they are all so op'd.