lampardinos wrote:

Lemonjelly wrote:I'm not quite sure if you're aware of how long it actually takes to get 50-100k bounty points, there's nothing already existing on uthgard that's actually worth that amount of bp and any custom overpowered stuff would make the game unfair.

Well ok. 100k was a bit over the top but 50k shouldnt be that great amount.

So if they would implement a reskin for bp its useless if everyone is running with GoV-Skin or Antalya Cloak. Then it wouldnt be any goal to accomplish.

But 50k should be hard enough for everybody whos not 'really' interested in reskins and ok for players who like rvr. 50k should be in the middle of rr8 and thats possible to get.

Think it's a bit more then rr8. My Bard got around 37k bp. Ofc i spent some bp for respecs, but max 20k. And think was a even less.

Lemonjelly wrote:I didn't say adding is against the rules but to say people add just to "defend their realm" is nonsense. People do it to leech easy realmpoints or just to spite their opponents or even their own realm mates, that's all there is to it

If you add or not add is the first decision you should make if you go to emain, since basically you will always get juged cause of add or not add =)
And people dont do it only for RP, sure its nice additional RP but thats not the main reason at least for me.
If you run a no add strategy you need to remember who to add, who not to add, cause he let you alive 2 weeks ago. The other guy seemed to add 2 h ago so we are allowed to add him. You end up with tons of parameters whether to add or not
So for me this is just bullshit and it's way simpler to just add everything and get added by everything, since its RvR not 8vs8 or 1vs1.
And a short excursion to the video thread will show you how this RR8+ 8vs8 guys got that many RP's, its mostly due to zerg fights on Agramon, which they forgot about =)

Celteen wrote:

Lemonjelly wrote:I didn't say adding is against the rules but to say people add just to "defend their realm" is nonsense. People do it to leech easy realmpoints or just to spite their opponents or even their own realm mates, that's all there is to it

If you add or not add is the first decision you should make if you go to emain, since basically you will always get juged cause of add or not add =)
And people dont do it only for RP, sure its nice additional RP but thats not the main reason at least for me.
If you run a no add strategy you need to remember who to add, who not to add, cause he let you alive 2 weeks ago. The other guy seemed to add 2 h ago so we are allowed to add him. You end up with tons of parameters whether to add or not
So for me this is just bullshit and it's way simpler to just add everything and get added by everything, since its RvR not 8vs8 or 1vs1.
And a short excursion to the video thread will show you how this RR8+ 8vs8 guys got that many RP's, its mostly due to zerg fights on Agramon, which they forgot about =)

What are you talking about? If you run a no add strategy you just don't add. "I add you because you added me" is kid's squabble at nursery.

Hoppip wrote:Difference being that level 50s can counter attack and kill the person bugging them. And lower levels will be in the story, with good farming and leveling spots, they'll be bound to show up there, no need to force them. You're putting an unnecessary focus on lowbies, that's not where the treasure lies. =D

Actually it is because only this way you will create enough reliable activity to both make the smallman RvR viable regarding both finding groups AND enemies. Allowing for easy RvR groups and enemy activity will make endRvR a LOT more (new)player friendly than it currently is (thus more like BGs, making it more comfortable for newer players when starting endRvR) and makes sure a respectable part of their enemies are also non50s. This way they have a very good chance of actually making enough kills for it to be a worthy replacement for BGs to those that actually want to get their character to 50 (through RvRing). EndRvR for non50s will never pick up if you hold the BG in place because it will needlessly split the RvR population, which hurts ALL smallman players in the end due to a decrease in action, and specificly a decrease in non50 action, which again makes participating in endRvR virtually impossible for non50s because they won' t be finding groups as they should be.

You see actually dinging 50 shouldn't be something you DISlike because you get dumped in an RvR zone that doesn't allow you to grp OR find decent enemies to make it worthwhile. Getting to level 50 should be a wanted feature, partially since it puts you (even if just slightly) in a better position to fight the enemies out there, without getting you into any sort of situation you rather aren't.

That's another reason to actually attract these non50s into endRvR, the fact that if you do so, players who feel that they are not able to compete at level 45 have the possibility to improve their character over their enemies without forcing them to do so by actually fighting enemies, giving them an effective advantage over those that prefer to RvR through PvE. And non50 RvR certainly will happen often due to reasonably well established smallman activity and thus RvR opportunities even to the non-50s.

There is NO other option in the current setting to improve your character in ANY way over your enemies after leaving Thid for the current new endRvR players because the only way to got stronger at all is by fighting the enemies that are by definition stronger than you, compared to fighting enemies that are likely to be stronger, but may just as good be equal or even weaker. To improve the conditions regarding non50s, removing the last BG will aid enormously, because it will increase the non50 endRvR participation, again making the entire concept of RvRing below 50 more worthwhile due to more equal chances for the non50s.

Hoppip wrote:And no, the level is not a non-factor, it's the difference between a disadvantage and 0 chance.

Complete and utter bullshit. I've raped my fair share of lvl 50s in Agramon as an Xper, I even raped a FG of lvl 50s at jellies with a FG of expers due to being aware of your environment and acting according to the dangers around you. Simple as that, again, levels are NO argument here, at all. A 'lowbie' (lvl 45-49 isn't low tbh) can kill a lvl50 xper just as good if he plays it right, an XP grp can kill lvl 50 gankers just as good if they play it right. Skill and gameplay affect these encounters FAR more than the marginal impact of level difference.


In fact, I've been putting out all these benefits to actually establishing smallman RvR for non50s in endRvR PARTIALLY by removing the latest BG, but you've barely been bringing up arguments for actually keeping the BG. What does it really contribute? What makes it so important that every single person not thinking this through clings to it so desperately?

- Higher RealmRank when players leave Thid?
Neglectable advantage, their enemies will always be higher and they still won't find groups to combat them.
- More RvR experience?
Completely useless since BG RvR is completely irrelevant in endRvR, the current standards are incomparably higher.
- No need to PvE all the way to 50?
There's no need for that in my solution either, in fact, by creating a large enough playerpool for endRvR, it creates the ultimate BG because you can't cap it. You could level in RvR from level 45 to 50 without even bothering about any sort fo RRcap whatsoever. In BGs however you will need to first XP to a level that's near the end of the BG (47+) to make it really viable (because everyone is that level), forcing you to XP at least 3-4 entire levels.
- Providing an RvR opportunity with very similar skills as on level 50?
EndRvR does the same in that aspect, it's just not an argument for BGs, especially since the actual RvR is not relevant to endRvR, which should be why it's actually an advantage.
- Removing it will somehow destroy a part of BG RvR.
It will disable you from the experience to play in BGs at level 45-49, sure, but the entire concept of BG RvR will remain and will be available even sooner than before, making it in fact easier to experience than in our current setting. There is absolutely no loss in quality here for BG RvR, just in quantity, which is worth it if you see that by doing so the transition to endRvR actually becomes a LOT smoother and fun for the player, which in turn will bind them to endRvR more than to BGs as it is now.

To be quite honest I find the impact of removing that last BG not even remotely as bad as almost all of you seem to be whining about, in fact the cost (hardly noteworthy imo) compared to the benefits (worthwhile transition to endRvR for ppl who leave BGs, establising smallman RvR, increasing overall RvR activity) is the only ludicrous aspect in this entire discussion.

There is NOTHING important that gets lost by removing the latest BG, yet it is whined about SO much because it SEEMS as if you're losing much (which is complete bullsh.t), but in reality are winning a LOT more if done properly.

I think if you want to get people to do something then create incentives. You can have monsters in the frontier that give good gold or good items. You could give double realm points to people under rr6 for killing enemy players or for taking keeps. Maybe even give rps for killing keep guards.

If you give people a realistic way to improve their character in the frontier I believe they will go out there. Telling low rr characters to form a pug and fight hard core 8 man groups is really not going to be very productive and will not be seen as a realistic way to improve their characters.

I miss the epic MFG standoffs where it was zerg vs zerg, and who would charge first. we didnt even need to be grouped or level 50. and running in the perfect setup didnt matter. Stealthers, archers everyone was involved. I would like to see that again someday

Now groups with RR run around in thier perfect setup and new players and PUGs dont have a chance. They stand in the keep for hours looking for the right class to fill in and lose another in the process
Thats the biggest killer of people in the frontiers. As on live. Not the Bgs

I just started on this server recently and the BEST RVR ive found was running around in a keeptaking group at low RR and 45-50 running into another keeptaking group that was low RR also because the higher RR farm groups are in emain, but those are few and far between

katbird wrote:I miss the epic MFG standoffs where it was zerg vs zerg, and who would charge first. we didnt even need to be grouped or level 50. and running in the perfect setup didnt matter. Stealthers, archers everyone was involved. I would like to see that again someday

Now groups with RR run around in thier perfect setup and new players and PUGs dont have a chance. They stand in the keep for hours looking for the right class to fill in and lose another in the process
Thats the biggest killer of people in the frontiers. As on live. Not the Bgs

I just started on this server recently and the BEST RVR ive found was running around in a keeptaking group at low RR and 45-50 running into another keeptaking group that was low RR also because the higher RR farm groups are in emain, but those are few and far between

Best way for low RR RvR is a guard mission group. Go to Alb / Mid, open 3 keeps and farm the guards. After some time there is a high chance to get defending low RR pug as enemies. If not who cares, you make some nice RP by killing guards =)
Problem is to motivate your mates, cause the Uthgard doctrine is that the only place to get RP is emain.
Even if you cant stand a chance with a pug, people will stick to this doctrine, kinda dump but that's how it is =)

Zyviel wrote:If you give people a realistic way to improve their character in the frontier I believe they will go out there. Telling low rr characters to form a pug and fight hard core 8 man groups is really not going to be very productive and will not be seen as a realistic way to improve their characters.

I'm giving them a realistic way to improve their character: great XP opportunities in the frontiers, through RvR kills OR PvE. If you read my posts more closely you will notice that I'm not talling low rr characters to form a pug and fight hard core 8 man groups at all. In fact, did you even read my posts?

If this wasn't meant to me, nevermind.

Zarkor,

I strongly disagree with removing bgs to force players into frontiers. I would actually like to see the Developers of Uthgard add a level 50 bg for people under rr5.

However if the Developers of Uthgard want to create more incentives for low rr players to go to the frontiers I think that would be great.

Removing Battlegrounds is wrong, short-sighted, and counter-productive.

I thought that the staff already realized this, as they themselves said it best:

Trishin wrote:BG setup

We have decided not to go with the previous stated system. Instead we will implement a few additional BGs and keep the BG setup as a setup starting from some point in the 20s and until level 49.5. We have decided this based on the thought that it is no solution to force people out of the BGs in an attempt to get them into the RvR zones. Instead we will focus on improving our current RvR zones, and motivate people to RvR in our OF zones that way.

If this is no longer the case someone let me know so I can proceed accordingly, as I have no interest in endless idle speculation.

Topaz wrote:they get : NO Group (equal what char)
they get: FLAMES in game cause of "adding"
they get: bad emo-spams from own realm mates.
they get: ignorance from wannabe elite-players.
they get a bad name in the realm for "adding and zerging"
they get flamed as n00bs
and the best of all: they make it WITHOUT knowing the other player.

+1 (I like my ~~20/30 screens)
Reset all characters would be fun imo, new adventure. (Yes, I know it's my personal dream )

Lasastard wrote:

Thalien wrote:

espire wrote:The reason i'm not in emain is because I can't afford a decent template (yet). Still have lots of farming ahead of me before I can compete in rvr. I can live with the rr gap but if I ahve to compete with lower RR and sub-par stats I do not stand a chance.

Thats also a problem. But only cause pepole think that.

Why you belive that?

It's so damn easy to get a decent template on uth. I Had enough money from xping with every toon to buy a crafted suit. Then buy some jewelry or kill some cf nameds and youre fine.

Agree. My first template had the epic torso in it so I could save a few plats - didn't hurt me in any way, tbh. If you have trouble coming up with a decent temp, just tell us your class and spec and maybe we can figure something out that won't cost an arm and a leg. People get overly obsessed with itemization, because that is all that matters in other games. But in DAoC (on Uth) you can get away with a 99% crafted armor and some readily available drops, for most classes and specs.

I'm playing a hero, using 2mp pieces(gloves and boots) in my temp, never bought anything while levelling, levelled from 43-49 at fins. Missing SC on all my armor/weapons aswell as these 2mp's.
I did notice farming money on midgard is way faster than it does on hib so it might be a realmissue. Or I just don't know what the most common farm spots are.

I'm playing here because I want to 8v8 and since most groups roaming are pretty high ranked (from what I've heard) I do not feel like competing with sub-par RR AND sc.

Lemonjelly wrote:You can't afford to make a template after 2 years of playing ? You must be the most casual player ever

I made a forumaccount 2years ago on this forum, this doesn't necessarily mean I have been playing here for 2years.

Complete and utter bullshit. I've raped my fair share of lvl 50s in Agramon as an Xper, I even raped a FG of lvl 50s at jellies with a FG of expers due to being aware of your environment and acting according to the dangers around you. Simple as that, again, levels are NO argument here, at all. A 'lowbie' (lvl 45-49 isn't low tbh) can kill a lvl50 xper just as good if he plays it right, an XP grp can kill lvl 50 gankers just as good if they play it right. Skill and gameplay affect these encounters FAR more than the marginal impact of level difference.

Not a typical or common scenario.

You see actually dinging 50 shouldn't be something you DISlike because you get dumped in an RvR zone that doesn't allow you to grp OR find decent enemies to make it worthwhile. Getting to level 50 should be a wanted feature, partially since it puts you (even if just slightly) in a better position to fight the enemies out there, without getting you into any sort of situation you rather aren't.

And thus people will dread dinging to 45 instead >.>

There is NOTHING important that gets lost by removing the latest BG, yet it is whined about SO much because it SEEMS as if you're losing much (which is complete bullsh.t), but in reality are winning a LOT more if done properly.

How would we be winning anything if all we're doing is losing options? All for some big gamble that suddenly the frontiers will be fun because more people were forced there to try and EXP and then maybe have some marginal success in Rvr?


....


Just gonna sum this up by saying I agree with Nymeros. Good work with that quote. :}

Lemonjelly wrote:I didn't say adding is against the rules but to say people add just to "defend their realm" is nonsense. People do it to leech easy realmpoints or just to spite their opponents or even their own realm mates, that's all there is to it

Our guild has no problem with players adding if we are attacking an enemy and others join in good for them, even if we only need 1 hit for the kill and someone else gets the kill it doesn't matter, the enemy is dead that's the No1 priority
we also WILL add any fight we see, all we see is the enemy and as far as we are concerned that is enough incentive for us to attack
yes of course realmpoints are nice but defending the realm is top of the list anything else is a bonus, we don't wait to see how well a fight is going, kill the enemy move on
I have had players pm me with abuse or telling me i'm on there ignore list and telling me there alliance will never group with me/us all kinds of messages and to be honest they might as well stand by a wall and talk to that because they will get the same reply

We enjoy RVR the way we wan't to if that sometimes upsets people that is unfortunate for them not us
So if you see any of my chars ( Sister, Thrud, Eldrick, Zoned ) in BG's or OF please feel free to add I have no problem with anyone adding
.
.

So how exactly are you defending the realm by adding?*

You're just destroying other peoples fun.


*I'm obviously not talking about keep/relicraids here, but open field RvR, which does not have a point besides RPs and fun.