Blue wrote:

nixian wrote:however why not just say: all meet at center of agra when rvr is at low peak?

This would be the easiest solution. This is what I mean. Just find a way to establish such a spot. Player who think there is low action could just head to the center spot in Agramon and wait there, then meet others that think who same If that happens regulary this could work out in low pop hours to find enemies. But my guess is that you will be killed by FG's checking that spot.

Actually, I stood there for a couple hrs at primetime yesterderday and no inc.

Indeed, we stood EXACTLY in the middle of Agramon hill for a full hour without anyone coming our way on an early monday evening.

wheelchairbuff wrote:Actually, I stood there for a couple hrs at primetime yesterderday and no inc.

That means something as we had 150 players inside yesterday (at prime time) But see it so, if nobody sees sense to go to the center you won't meet somebody. Maybe try that experiment again and spread the word.

So primetime = when YOU log on and see a relic raid going on. Anything before or after that is void

Serious question, since you dismiss our every effort to tell you that agramon is empty most of the time

No action for 3 hours, 30 minutes of relic raiding, no action for 3 hours, etc...

Blue wrote:

wheelchairbuff wrote:Actually, I stood there for a couple hrs at primetime yesterderday and no inc.

That means something as we had 150 players inside yesterday (at prime time) But see it so, if nobody sees sense to go to the center you won't meet somebody. Maybe try that experiment again and spread the word.

OR implement a zone where people don't have to crossrealm arrange meetings with other players to get some incs?

I find this remark a really weak solution to a fundamental issue. "Players should arrange their own hotspots, that's not the map's job."

With such a mentality, there isn't going to change much...

Blue wrote:

wheelchairbuff wrote:Actually, I stood there for a couple hrs at primetime yesterderday and no inc.

That means something as we had 150 players inside yesterday (at prime time) But see it so, if nobody sees sense to go to the center you won't meet somebody. Maybe try that experiment again and spread the word.

and get banned for organising x-realm RP farm duels?

of will bring no change, old ra's will make it worse

Runis wrote:of will bring no change, old ra's will make it worse

Such comments are not really contributing to the discussion. Please argument your opinion or you might aswell not post at all .

Zarkor wrote:

Runis wrote:of will bring no change, old ra's will make it worse

Such comments are not really contributing to the discussion. Please argument your opinion or you might aswell not post at all .

in my opinion runis is somehow right ...


instead of calling for more changes, some organized approaches of the players / community itself might be good aswell...

- im sure the solo/stealther/duo fraction knows itself very good, so call out spontaniously in forums/irc: "all solo players just log in and come agra" or "there might be some solo/duo action in odins gate..."
- when keeps/relics are raided, call out a zone which is not effacted during this time
- ask fg (which does not add solo/duo fights) to roam in the zone and to get rid of adder full grps


however, the worst think u can do is not to log in anymore... instead of wining and writing/repeating/spamming the same phrases/complaints/wishes/desires/... u could use your time to organize more rvr


just my 2 cents

Zarkor wrote:OR implement a zone where people don't have to crossrealm arrange meetings with other players to get some incs?

I find this remark a really weak solution to a fundamental issue. "Players should arrange their own hotspots, that's not the map's job."

With such a mentality, there isn't going to change much...

You misunderstood me. It would be just an intermediate solution until we have some more technics to help players to find action more quickly. Before we opt for OF, I would rather try anything possible. You know its quite some work to implement such a huge change and if it doesnt work out as intended we are at step 1. NF has still lots of room for improvement and ideas.

WATCH THIS VIDEO to see RvR taking place in Emain...group rvr...8 vs 16... etc etc. I know its hard to imagine what Emain would be like so here is video evidence of what emain is like (download takes 8 mins for me):
http://files.filefront.com/Desolateavi/ ... einfo.html

wheelchairbuff wrote:The only real negative factor I can think of, is that implementing OF would attract a mass of players, this causing a lot of adding/zerging. But lets not worry about that now :p

Even if having emain attracted 1000 new players making primetime population ~1500...Uthgard would still be on the same level as a small mythic server. And as we've pointed out 1500 player servers did perfectly fine with OF emain as the #1 hotspot. So no no cons

Zarkor wrote:I also believe that OF will create a new influx to the server and that donations might be more needed than ever if word gets out that Uthgard has a classic setting (old RAs or not) and is using the Old Frontiers RvR maps.

Uthgard will be the closest thing to Origins, the long expected and hoped for server from Mythic, which now seems to be cancelled.
In fact, I believe that Uthgard would actually be BETTER than Origins, since the Uthgard staff doesn't want to kill the game like the staff wanted to do with Origins regarding reduce CC duration and grief protection.

I would definitely be willing to donate the normal mmo fee of $10-$15 to Uthgard MONTHLY if end game was OF/hibfront/emain. I agree with you entirely that Uthgard could definitely be way better than any Origins server Mythic makes. Just from reading forums etc I see how dedicated the dev's here are to this server...and one thing that really shows how great of a server this could be is the fact that they don't care about giving players free 50's....they want you to work for your character...they want this to be a REAL server that has meaning.

Haldan wrote:I used to play back in these times and Zarkor already quoted my arguments against OF. Even if you believe the zone wouldn't be zergy it obviously would due to the fact that all action would be pointed towards the AMG. Rare 8vs8 fights would fastly be zerged down, because these fights used to take place not more than ~5-10k units afar of the AMG meaning a quick interfereance is possible.

It really doesnt sound like you did play much 8v8 back in OF...take a look at this map of emain:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/wohast/EmainRvR.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ ... ainRvR.jpg

If you want to see that map above in live DAoC action watch the video i linked at the top...

Now someone who has never stepped foot in OF emain has no idea just how big it really is...on paper yah it looks small, but it is far from it. Groups dont just run along the straight roads in plain sight looking for fights...you take back ways trying to flank other grps that you see....trying to get the jump on other groups. Of course groups are bound to bump into eachother at AMG, but fights occur in MANY other places. And its not like people use radar here so the 8v8 fights that occur not in plain sight ARENT going to be interrupted...so no there cant be the stupid little indicator icons on the map about where battles are taking place unless maybe its a keep getting attacked.

Groups speed around all those routes listed in red on the map looking for other groups. It isnt "omg we all just sit around at AMG and fight only at AMG!" Emain has what you can call a circuit...you can cruise around and pretty much always have a chance of running into a FG or other soloers.

You want to see Emain working perfectly for FG's and stealthers making everyone happy? Watch these two videos:

8 MAN RvR...where are all the fights taking place? Somewhere in EMAIN:
http://files.filefront.com/Desolateavi/ ... einfo.html

^^^PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD watch this video...it takes place on the BIGGEST Mythic Live server Merlin during the time of OF...within the first 30 seconds you see just how many different spots around emain where RvR takes place. The RvR in this video is the type of RvR people here only dream of thanks to Agra...


Unfortunatly I cant find a link to the solo stealther movie but ill upload many more 8man grp videos aswell as solo stealther videos and you'll SEE FOR YOURSELF emain working flawlessly on servers much larger than this.

Haldan wrote:One of my biggest concerns is that this zone would mean a loss of imlemented and probably upcoming features while in it's final appearance it would reduce DAoC RvR to some kind of battleground RvR ... something we as staff never wanted to have!

And thats the problem...dev's try to implement so much new sh*t and change the core game that we all know and love thinking its going to be so much better...and when it finally comes out it fails. So instead of reverting BACK to something that works and is known to work, they try to fix things by adding more changes to the point where they just kill the game. You already have a fire, you aren't going to turn it out by adding gasoline. Cut your losses, stop making new crap. Ya it sucks when something you work your ass off on doesnt turn out how you want it to be and people give it bad feedback, but thats life. You can either be prideful and let it stay or be smart and revert.

Haldan wrote:b) ... does not mean that these forum active players are able to understand a supposed change in terms of "global/server/gameplay effects"

We cant understand how having Emain be the rvr hotspot would effect the server/gameplay? You realize everyone supporting emian played in emain for around 3 years? You realize we have seen 2000 people servers playing just fine in emain for 3 years? We know what emain RvR is like with more people than you've ever seen on at once on Uthgard. We also know what emain RvR is like with populations just slightly higher then Uthgard. I think it's you who hasn't the slightest clue about what Emain could really do for Uthgard.

Zarkor wrote:Old Frontiers Emain:
Road to RvR: slow
RvR itself: fast

The road to RvR is FAR from slow...as you can see in the map that i've already linked...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ ... ainRvR.jpg

you have a chance to run into a group or other solo'ers pretty much the second you leave your PK...excluding the hibbies, who do have to run a lil ways, that is if they even start as far as they used to. Having to wait for a port isn't slow...it's necessary to prevent people from dying and popping back instantly.
OF is the perfect speed.

nixian wrote:however the other option is having mids/albs rvr with hibs rerolling mid/albs cuz of a HUGE long run to action in emain zone

You obviously never played OF emain or just have no idea what you're talking about.
mids/albs do have easy mode getting to port in. and its only easy because they just get to sit there afk and wait for the porters to port them. hibs on the other hand, DONT have to wait for porters, but they do have to use their brains and run, they dont get to just afk and wait, but its not like they dont get speed while leaving DC, they do.

So its not like hibs get shafted...they dont have to wait for port...they just start running back when they die...mids/albs wait for port before they can start running back. it pretty much evens itself out in the end and again this is WHY emain was gold back in the day. it is PERFECT, especially for a server this size....maybe if Uthgard had 2.5k+ people then that would be a different story.

wheelchairbuff wrote:Sieges are a wholly separate discussion, as there would have to be a place for the alb/mid relics as well.

As Zarkor mentioned earlier, "lets fix RvR first, and worry about the other stuff later".

Exactly fix the damn end game first so 50's actually have something fun to do...and the dev's will have all the time in the world to come up with some great ideas for where relics are gonna go, sieges, etc etc....but ATLEAST EVERYONE will be happy RvR'ing and not ****** about being bored out of their mind...so you'll pretty much have all the time in the world cuz everyone will be entertained. And instead of these forums being filled with "rvr sucks, this is boring, so deserted, blah blah" they will be filled with people trash talking eachother about kills, complimenting fights, posting videos having fun etc etc

Blue wrote:

nixian wrote:however why not just say: all meet at center of agra when rvr is at low peak?

This would be the easiest solution. This is what I mean. Just find a way to establish such a spot. Player who think there is low action could just head to the center spot in Agramon and wait there, then meet others that think who same If that happens regulary this could work out in low pop hours to find enemies. But my guess is that you will be killed by FG's checking that spot.

You are clueless as to what Emain is...its not just some randomly chosen spot that everyone decided to meet up at to RvR...it is a perfect map for RvR...it has everything you need for 8v8's, solo'ers, stealthers, milegate battles etc etc. There is no way to establish such a spot because no such spot exists for the type of fun RvR that Emain has to offer.

Blue wrote:

wheelchairbuff wrote:Actually, I stood there for a couple hrs at primetime yesterderday and no inc.

That means something as we had 150 players inside yesterday (at prime time) But see it so, if nobody sees sense to go to the center you won't meet somebody. Maybe try that experiment again and spread the word.

Again you're telling the people who play on your server that if they want RvR they need to organize it? THEY need to tell others of a certain spot to goto in YOUR RvR map just to find some fights. Thats retarded...if you goto emain you're going to find RvR...you dont need to "spread the word" to everyone on the server that they need to goto 1 certain area. Players don't need to go out of there way to beg people to meet up at a ****** spot to setup up RvR...the MAP should be the one setting up the RvR ...EMAIN sets up the RvR perfectly. Agra doesnt.

WATCH THIS VIDEO to see RvR taking place in Emain...group rvr...8 vs 16... etc etc. I know its hard to imagine what Emain would be like so here is video evidence of what emain is like (download takes 8 mins for me):
http://files.filefront.com/Desolateavi/ ... einfo.html

Blue wrote:

Zarkor wrote:OR implement a zone where people don't have to crossrealm arrange meetings with other players to get some incs?

I find this remark a really weak solution to a fundamental issue. "Players should arrange their own hotspots, that's not the map's job."

With such a mentality, there isn't going to change much...

You misunderstood me. It would be just an intermediate solution until we have some more technics to help players to find action more quickly. Before we opt for OF, I would rather try anything possible. You know its quite some work to implement such a huge change and if it doesnt work out as intended we are at step 1. NF has still lots of room for improvement and ideas.

I fully understand you want to explore other options first. I fully support old emain, but It easy to say that when other people need to do the work.

Honestly - you should just put the camps back until you come up with a better solution, and remove them when you have come up with that solution.

tazok wrote:
I fully understand you want to explore other options first. I fully support old emain, but It easy to say that when other people need to do the work.

Yea, and its easy to want something you have no clue about either like all the people who are asking for Old RA's and dont have a clue about how they worked in the past...

so cause i dont háve so much time to read it at all and i will drive 1 week to the legacy festivial.....

i will just say there are always people who will say Nf is so COOL
like Pups they say OF OLDSKOOL YES!

just why some guys post over 20 times here, OF dont will be better then...

Just make a vote system and try it if they want OF
and the gm's blue etc accept it and have the time for it.

then we really see does it work or not..

there are people like nixian runis they are here a long time i dont wanna get them sad cause of =) or something
i never saw Nixian IG just pa me =/ i am the strange purple one

so HF all see u in 1week and thx to all soloers/duo/trios xD