They resume casting when they shouldn't.

Pbuck wrote:

Mancav3 wrote:
Alb is also very controllable, you just have to play against them correctly. However, ice theurg pets being broken swings balance a little bit. Once ice pets are fixed, they will be much more balanced and be much easier to fight. Thank god Pbuk is the only theurg that's very good atm.

We have yet to run a full guild group and become 100% organized. We pug nightly and coach them into our playstyle and ideal of what we want our groups to do.

Broken in what way?

Because the ice pets cause the Theurgist behind them to suddenly warp away when you get into melee range!

concernedcitizen82 wrote:i was on pendragon testing something the other day and i can assure you this 500 range melee doesn't happen.

and mid caster would be fun to do and my group would love to do it but leveling again etc is too much work.

No that does not happen on live.

The meele range here is beyond rediculous (stop calling it lag, its way WAY more than lag). How you think it can be balanced currently is just pure LOLz. Calling it lag in that Gif is hilarious considering the way hes moving and the range he shows......has NOTHING to do with lag quit using that as your OP Meele excuse, its tiring.

On-topic: "Mids should build castergroups, that would give us a hard time!"

Since release I played RM with all of the three common specs (47d/26s aka full Dark, 48rc/22d/11s aka Debuffer and 40s/36d aka red NS utility spec), and I came to the conclusion that it is incredibly hard to make RM work at this patch level.

One reason behind that is that Mids really like to play their three Healers. Before release I was on boat with the unpopular opinion that Mid really doesn't need three of them; and that is still correct. If you however choose to run with two Healers, you'll need really great Healer players to make up for the lack of one additional supporter. The only setup I see two Healers working on a higher level without them being godtier players is a classic caster setup.

The suggested RM+BD combo is something I played only two or three times, and yes, I'm a fan as well. However, you either need to cut one of the three Healers or the Skald, and there is literally no way around that. If you cut the Skald you lose speed and backline interrupts which leads to the RM being under even more pressure, but it can work with a really good BD; if you cut a Healer, both the casters need to play more passive which they really don't want to, especially the BD.

Either way, RM is in an awful spot. In a group with one caster slot you should 100% get a BD instead of RM in the current state of the meta. Red NS is great, yea, petclear is great, yea, but nothing comes close to BD utility against enemy groups with one or more casters (so basically 90% of hib/alb setups).
In a group with a BD you need to make huge sacrifices AND guarantee that everybody is one the same page regarding the setup.

What's left then? Full caster setup? Yes, maybe. I tried to make it work several times while being full RC spec, and I played with the best casters on Mid. But even with the BD you don't have nearly as much utility as other caster groups, so that is where you have to make it up with players that really know how to play their class in the setup. As already said, you need two really good Healers, you need a godlike Warrior (shotcalling slams/assist), and hyper-aware casters that know how to prekite without Skald speed. You only have BD pets to pressure the enemy backline, and Healers will need to make hard decisions every fight on CC vs. heals, something that they have to do every fight, but it can be especially cruel in a caster setup.

TL;DR: Two-caster-hybrid-setups in Midgard are incredibly hard to pull off. What's harder? Pulling off full caster setups.
RM is hard to pull off.
3Healer/BD/Skald/Offtank/Offtank-or-Warrior/Sham is and always will be the holy grail.

Eclipz wrote:

concernedcitizen82 wrote:i was on pendragon testing something the other day and i can assure you this 500 range melee doesn't happen.

and mid caster would be fun to do and my group would love to do it but leveling again etc is too much work.

No that does not happen on live.

Not sure how this guy tested. It does like this on live. You can test that with dummy npcs on pendragon. Also Network lag has influence. If you strafe left or right, the server can get your key presses delayed and you are more near to the other char than you would expect and see in your client. I can only repeat, if it wasn't this way you would see alot outofrange messages. These were the cause why we originally investigated that into detail on Uthgard 1 and changed it to proper live behavior.

Uthgard doesn't use 500 melee range if its not some special reaver style. I would have liked to see the same video from the perspective of the other char who attacked.

As you show strafing in the video in direction of your target I will review the speed the server assumes with which you approach the target in strafing mode.

Just look at the way wall archer guards act in keeps, their melee range is ridiculous. These guards are always stationary so you can't really call it network lag - u can slowly back away to see when they stop hitting u with melee and that range being 500 units sounds about right.

That's definitely not live behavior - well, maybe it is like that on live NOW, but definitely wasn't in classic/1.65.

Evinac wrote:Just look at the way wall archer guards act in keeps, their melee range is ridiculous. These guards are always stationary so you can't really call it network lag - u can slowly back away to see when they stop hitting u with melee and that range being 500 units sounds about right.

We talk about PvP at the moment. Due to Z problems in PvE there can be some changes to distance calculation ignoring Z.

Pbuck wrote:

Mancav3 wrote:
Alb is also very controllable, you just have to play against them correctly. However, ice theurg pets being broken swings balance a little bit. Once ice pets are fixed, they will be much more balanced and be much easier to fight. Thank god Pbuk is the only theurg that's very good atm.

We have yet to run a full guild group and become 100% organized. We pug nightly and coach them into our playstyle and ideal of what we want our groups to do.

Broken in what way?

Ice pets do not stop casting unless killed. Also, they are not effected by determination ( they should be). Also, the snare does not diminish over time. You are 60% snared for the full duration of the snare.

Broken, bud.

Mancav3 wrote:Ice pets do not stop casting unless killed. Also, they are not effected by determination ( they should be). Also, the snare does not diminish over time. You are 60% snared for the full duration of the snare.

Are there issues in the bugtracker for each of the mentioned problems? I know that there is an issue for the cast stop after a melee hit. How about the others?

Blue wrote:

Evinac wrote:Just look at the way wall archer guards act in keeps, their melee range is ridiculous. These guards are always stationary so you can't really call it network lag - u can slowly back away to see when they stop hitting u with melee and that range being 500 units sounds about right.

We talk about PvP at the moment. Due to Z problems in PvE there can be some changes to distance calculation ignoring Z.

I don't imagine Z-axis being the issue here either - door 1 is down and you're clearing archers off the walls - you will be on the walls and on the same z-level as the guards - they still have 500 melee range.

Typical scenario: cast stun, go in to pbaoe on top of archer. If keep is lvl 5-6+ and archer is oj+, a few resists and archer does not die in 9s and starts meleeing - have to get pretty far away for archer guard to stop hitting u in melee and switches to ranged.

Or does melee range work differently for PC's and NPC's...?

Mancav3 wrote: Also, they are not effected by determination ( they should be).

Where do you get your false information from? Ice spirit snare is influenced by det.
Yes there is sth wrong with ice pets they seem to not go into melee fast enough (they also do enter melee, just too late most likely) . But then you pull out of your butt some new false claims? Why

https://gyazo.com/36d43c32f20b4fdb492b5c73e45182f0

here you got me moving back/forward

ZaiQQ wrote:https://gyazo.com/36d43c32f20b4fdb492b5c73e45182f0

here you got me moving back/forward

Please do /groundset 256 as reference.

Mancav3 wrote:
Ice pets do not stop casting unless killed. Also, they are not effected by determination ( they should be). Also, the snare does not diminish over time. You are 60% snared for the full duration of the snare.

Broken, bud.

They stop casting while interrupted, then resume if interrupts stop. Just like a player caster would do.How is that broken?Tested it on duel now vs mohaqq. Ice pet is out starts nuking.When interrupted by hit goes into melee hits.IF enemy target moves away fast it will resume nuking after some hits/seconds.The behavior is also the same for every caster mob, ice pets dont work any different in that regard.Snare does diminish but 1) it gets reapplied on next cast 2) duration of snare is 30 second, so it takes some time for that to happen if there are no subsequent casts.Snare is also affected by determination.Snare diminishes after 4-5 second vs det 5 tank.Again tested in duel just now vs mohaqq(det 4-5 merc) Also snare is 35% value not 60%. Please dont spread false information.

If you quick cast an ice pet on uth to peel off a tank on uth the ice pet will always start with a nuke. On live it starts with a melee attack and will start nuking as soon as you start spring ting. I think that's the main difference.