shintari wrote:
@ abydos: it is at least SOME approach to increase rvr. all your approaches in the past have decreased rvr action.

I was not aware that low port timer and RP bonus during low population hours decreased action.

Blue wrote:How would any of such idea improve RvR? Its not about some unreachable reward. Its about having a chance to kill some enemies and not be the victim 100% of the time.

Problems remain the same even if you offer fancy rewards.

I agree with Blue. This idea will only make the powerful more powerful. It does nothing to encourage players to leave the BGs where there is mostly pug vs pug which gives players with limited play time a chance of success in pvp.

It is strange that people seem to think that most of the players don't enjoy pvp and have to be lured out by rewards. It is not the case imo. I believe most players on Uthgard want to pvp and enjoy fights that are not totally one sided.

When I play in the bgs I hear so many players say they wish they could turn rps off so they could stay in whatever bg they are in. They say they are having fun in the bg and don't want to leave. Take a moment to consider that. These people would love to play in the bg with realm points turned off with basicly no reward for winning except the fun they are having.

IMO the problem is not that there is not enough reward for going to frontiers. The problem is the unfair fights caused by over powered gear, high rrs and high skilled dedicated 8v8 groups.

Other games with pvp understand this and have tiered pvp. The high ranked pvpers fight the high ranked pvpers and lower vs lower, etc...

I really think the creation of an 8v8 bg would be beneficial for the game. It could draw the extremely powerful players to an area where they could compete with others of their level. This would leave the frontiers to groups focused on taking keeps and participating in the rvr aspect the game was originally designed for.

Abydos wrote:The idea that cosmetic changes that don't affect balance are desired is heard. I am not convinced this is the right approach to increase RVR though.

Nah, I was just saying I would like cosmetic changes, not that they will increase RvR action ...if you were talking to me xD.

Zyviel wrote:IMO the problem is not that there is not enough reward for going to frontiers. The problem is the unfair fights caused by over powered gear, high rrs and high skilled dedicated 8v8 groups.

Other games with pvp understand this and have tiered pvp. The high ranked pvpers fight the high ranked pvpers and lower vs lower, etc...

I really think the creation of an 8v8 bg would be beneficial for the game. It could draw the extremely powerful players to an area where they could compete with others of their level. This would leave the frontiers to groups focused on taking keeps and participating in the rvr aspect the game was originally designed for.

Up.
And no need to make a dedicated zone for 8v8, there are lot of un used frontiers, leave 8v8 end game rvr where is now (emain), but give more incentive to these other aspects, like i said here, for who cant play endgame rvr.. maybe they will stop reroll bg characters or quit game after 2 month of "not-rvr".

Blue wrote:I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

I don't completely agree with this, although it is half true. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in the bg's or reroll UNLESS there is something they want that they can only get by finding a way to kill people in RvR. Yes I agree there are people who are casual and do not care what their realm rank is, or do care and cannot seem to get a high enough realm rank, and instead go to an alt when they view the situation as not winnable after one or two runs. But, if you dangle something like a reskin, effect scroll, or luster out in front of them, I guarantee that person will think twice before automatically running to their alt, and some will at least attempt to form enough people that they can actually win in RvR.

There are lots of examples of simple little rewards like these making a huge influence on people playing games. WoW is practically built on who gets the shiniest stuff, and people will go to the ends of the earth to get it. Gears of War for the Xbox had all kinds of weapon skins that were unlockable only by playing certain game modes. The modes themselves were terrible and never would have been played, except they were. Why? Because people wanted the shiny gear to put on themselves. To underestimate the power of shiny things to wear and the incentive it gives to players to do things is silly.

Again, as has been said before, I do not know exactly how many people this would bring out into RvR. But to say it wouldn't bring anyone is not true. Would the casual gamer be out there every night? No. But would the chances of them going out and at least giving it a good half hour to attempt to get some bounty points so they can make their toon look like they want it to increase? Hell yah it would. Would the veteran people who want that reskin salivate at the idea of a group, two groups, three groups, running around emain and spam broad for anything and everything that could help him build a force to tap into those potential bounty points? You bet.

That's what I have to say about this idea. Thanks for the time GMs. Your call on this, but at least you heard my side of the argument for this idea.

P.S. - I would use bounty points for this system and allow all of the people with spare bounty points to buy what cool stuff they could with it, because it would be a self-promotion for anyone on this server that ran across someone with cool reskins and such. New players would see what RvR gets them (after sending that person and asking how they got the armor or weapon of course) and try to get it themselves.

well thats exactly the point. people are just not participating, because why would they get farmed for nothing? give them something worth fighting for (haha, doesnt that sound epic) and these people will eventually try emain and team up as competetive 16slots.

but blues comment made me realize something: the staff is thinking that these players should have an actual chance to compete in rvr on their own. but that will never happen, and never happened before in daoc. all your attempts to make lowbies/casuals more competitive in rvr will not work unless they will improve in a) numbers or b) skill. even rr does not help as DG is proving every night. so they team up, which is perfectly reasonable if you cant compete on your own. but as i said, there are too few players in emain to give these people a chance to constantly team up.

i really don't think offering shiny new trinkets is giving newbies and casuals a realistic incentive to go to RVR.

Selling reskins for BP's only benefits those people who actually have any BP's.
In order to have BP's you have to win in RVR.
In order to win in RVR you need attempt to beat the set groups (or take it very slow and try small man only)
Most people wont win against the established set groups.
Most people wont win BP's
Most people wont get reskins

Where is the incentive?

Its easy to counter with "get in a pug", but how often do pugs win in RVR? not all that often (unless you play Mid apparently)

shintari wrote:but blues comment made me realize something: the staff is thinking that these players should have an actual chance to compete in rvr on their own. but that will never happen, and never happened before in daoc. all your attempts to make lowbies/casuals more competitive in rvr will not work unless they will improve in a) numbers or b) skill. even rr does not help as DG is proving every night. so they team up, which is perfectly reasonable if you cant compete on your own. but as i said, there are too few players in emain to give these people a chance to constantly team up.

Rofl so? Giving a item reskin with 20k bps these ppl will come to emain? Are you kidding me?

This thing could help to make estabilished ppl happy to customize their character with some nice effect/skin that differ them from new players, and i agree with that, BUT dont tell me that this will increase the rvr population ^^

---
Can i ask to Blue/Gms if what i said some post before could be a point to aim to help the rvr situation for new players?

I'm not the only one here that will appreciate that thig (btw was a key part of classic daoc..), i speak as many others player (at least on midgard where i play) that "try" to pug sometimes..

Waiting for responce,
Byez

we havent discussed yet how to implement such incentives. we were talking if such incentives could lure people to emain. we already said that BPs wont be an adequate way. but before discussing this point, we have to agree that rewards will attract more people to rvr if they are implemented correctly. if everyone agrees on this hypothesis, u can start discussion how these rewards can be best implemented. its wrong to make assumptions how these rewards will look like and disregard the whole idea based on assumptions.

borog wrote:i really don't think offering shiny new trinkets is giving newbies and casuals a realistic incentive to go to RVR.

Selling reskins for BP's only benefits those people who actually have any BP's.
In order to have BP's you have to win in RVR.
In order to win in RVR you need attempt to beat the set groups (or take it very slow and try small man only)
Most people wont win against the established set groups.
Most people wont win BP's
Most people wont get reskins

Where is the incentive?

Its easy to counter with "get in a pug", but how often do pugs win in RVR? not all that often (unless you play Mid apparently)

The way you beat set groups is by getting more people. People would have more of an incentive to build more than one group because all of sudden there is something out there they can't get except for RvRing. Right now everyone just logs to go PvE instead of getting more than an 8man together. It has been discussed in other threads, people quit on RvR way too easy on this server. There is something wrong when a fg can run around and more times than not have to suicide on a PK because nothing is out. They should be beaten down by 2fgs and forced to log, as that is the natural progression of RvR (solo to smallman to fg to zerg). That last step has been missing a lot more than it should.

The thought process should be:

"there is a fg out in emain? BOUNTY POINTS! How many people is needed to beat them... hmm... /lfg emain."
not
"there is a fg out in emain? We can't form a group to beat them, time to play an alt/task/pve anything else BUT go to emain."

Caemma wrote:Can i ask to Blue/Gms if what i said some post before could be a point to aim to help the rvr situation for new players?

I'm not the only one here that will appreciate that thig (btw was a key part of classic daoc..), i speak as many others player (at least on midgard where i play) that "try" to pug sometimes..

Waiting for responce,
Byez

Buuuumpt

BobtheSkelly wrote:The thought process should be:

"there is a fg out in emain? BOUNTY POINTS! How many people is needed to beat them... hmm... /lfg emain."
not
"there is a fg out in emain? We can't form a group to beat them, time to play an alt/task/pve anything else BUT go to emain."

there is a FG out in emain? ive been sat LFG for 20 minutes and we have found 4 people. We just need another 12 and we can comptete.

Nah, i'm bored of wasting gaming time looking at the chat screen im going to do something else.

Caemma wrote:

Caemma wrote:Can i ask to Blue/Gms if what i said some post before could be a point to aim to help the rvr situation for new players?

I'm not the only one here that will appreciate that thig (btw was a key part of classic daoc..), i speak as many others player (at least on midgard where i play) that "try" to pug sometimes..

Waiting for responce,
Byez

Buuuumpt

We already talked in length about this in other threads and it was said there will be changes. But it takes time. No need to bring up this again at the moment until we have implemented all ideas. Whether all this can help will be seen, as it was already hard to get it work in Agramon.

borog wrote:

BobtheSkelly wrote:The thought process should be:

"there is a fg out in emain? BOUNTY POINTS! How many people is needed to beat them... hmm... /lfg emain."
not
"there is a fg out in emain? We can't form a group to beat them, time to play an alt/task/pve anything else BUT go to emain."

there is a FG out in emain? ive been sat LFG for 20 minutes and we have found 4 people. We just need another 12 and we can comptete.

Nah, i'm bored of wasting gaming time looking at the chat screen im going to do something else.

You have to build a regular playerbase, and you will be rewarded. Even if you can not be competitive in emain, there are enough things you could do, but you have to climb the social ladder in your realm and get in touch with the active rvr players if you really want to compete. Get in contact with people, IRC is a good place for that for example. I reached a point where i can get rvr players almost instantly, simply because i know a lot of people.

I made friends without IRC!