Stormha wrote:Just a question , if mid melees are so op ; why Albs and hibs guild group loose only against Mids casters groups or Hybrids groups?

Unfortunately its not just about mid melee.
Its about class/grp utility...
Alb just sucks in that.
And hib is just screwed in coming to emain.

Those are just a few reasons mid is op in this setting.

roflman wrote:
and people shouldnt have to make an ogre or firby to do good damage...tbh Celt should be first call or even Shar...as they both evadealot more than any firbby would...another thing tht cluelessness has brought about, people who only care for damage and not gracefulness,

Not sure you should be calling anyone clueless, having more evades as a tank isn't the most important thing you need to be worrying about in a group fight. It's all about spike dps. Now in solo, yeah evade, parry, block are very useful but in 8man the tank trains are goiing after support squishies not beating on other tanks that have defenses and are being healed.

roflman wrote:
some of you claim to have played DAoC from the very beggining....if this is the case why is everyone so fixated on being fully SCed and buffed etc etc, SC shouldnt even be on the server it is classic after all......clearly the server doesnt know if it wants to go past 1.80 or not....

This doesn't make any sense. What does someone playing a long time, wanting to play at their best and this servers ruleset have to do with each other? Any competition is going to make people want to be the best they can to compete, what else would they do, suck? BTW, SCing was in long long before 1.80.

Braxis wrote:That will be its downfall, if OF RAs ever get implemented here.
Just look at volley.

How so? If OF has prequisites and NF does not.
The only thing OF RAs have to offer is more gamebraking imbalances.

Stop looking at all those grps that roll over you and try looking at this from another perspective.
In this setting mid is op.
No abount of changing RAs will make those high rr ppl easily killable.

Volley is hopefully being fixed, and was not implemented by those who would be implementing OF RAs to my knowledge so it isn't a great example. Custom NF changes would suffer from more issues than any custom implementation of OF anyway.


Pre-reqs don't make things necessarily cost more than they do in NF, for example, MoC3 is more points than MoC from OF, even with all the pre-reqs.

I don't know how, as someone who plays mid, analyzing the Skald class in an NF versus OF comparison would have anything to do with, "the groups that roll you over"...not even sure what you mean by that. I'm objectively analyzing the RR gap between NF and OF. Taking specific classes as examples which illustrate the point better, but you can take any class.


In fact you can just look at how the RAs themselves scale. In NF the latter levels of passives scale up, meaning going from AD4 to AD5 is more dex than going from AD1 to AD2. But in OF things were linear. So that meant that the best bang for the buck was achieved at lower levels, making the best passives available to the lower RR and higher RR alike. When the higher RR spent more points on higher levels of passives they received LESS of a bonus than when doing so in NF. Very easy to see this.


It is WAY easier to roll a high RR group when they have to worry about 30 minute timers. When purge is on a 5 minute timer, it means you get to purge every fight. You put it back on a 30 minute timer, and you blanket mezz actually means something. Blanket mezz a high RR group now and its just purge...purge...purge...

On top of that OF RAs balanced tanks v. casters better than NF did in this setting. MoA, 100% MoC, no charge...etc...when tank v caster is better balanced it means mid v hib v alb is better balanced since each realm relies on their casters v tanks in differing degrees.

Braxis wrote:

Stormha wrote:Just a question , if mid melees are so op ; why Albs and hibs guild group loose only against Mids casters groups or Hybrids groups?

Unfortunately its not just about mid melee.
Its about class/grp utility...
Alb just sucks in that.
And hib is just screwed in coming to emain.

Those are just a few reasons mid is op in this setting.

explain why alb and hib casters are inferior to mid casters?

I understand that tank groups dominate, but when mids are running 2-3 casters I don't see the same advantage.

Stormha wrote:Just a question , if mid melees are so op ; why Albs and hibs guild group loose only against Mids casters groups or Hybrids groups?

Because mid tanks are retarded and AT on a reaver guarded by a paladin (yes hi hello, your group from last night that we wiped easily 3 times ).

Glacius wrote:

bawww wrote:

Glacius wrote:For your info, i see only Jump taking Zerk/savages as main target and kiling em with slash dmg ... one of the few, on live smart grp had a setup on tanks for albion what to hit and how to use dirty tricks VS the other AT so they can fumble and do crap dmg on the other grp 's suporters....but who to use it.. me?:P
Hibs with Bm s using triple wield and having Mopain deal more dmg then a zerker in 50% of the cases(zerker crit goes from 0 to 100%) , i rarely see Bm only grp, they always mix with 2 more casters who got no permaguard and die like rats in a sewer...

I know what u r saying, that alb and hib cant make a full use of their caster dmg properly( lacking of the melee dmg how u QQed) , well TOA helped em alot indeed, but guess what!, mid casters cant do shiet either , when tank grps from alb/hib will think with their heads instead of their "you know what" we ll talk again.

PS To all those merc/bm s who swap shield for slam in a fight , they loose dps x time ..they should do dmg not slaming ppl around , no wonder mids win because they stay DW .

There is no hope for you, I keep telling you this is not live and you keep talking about live tactics, the bit about blademasters dealing more damage than zerkers is particulary amusing. You can continue spamming doublefrost and stop talking about balance, kthx.

I told you to bring me arguments why this is not live like, things like TOA had this and that dont help because we dont have toa here, so casters got no favoritism on this server how they had with TOA, i m glad we agree on that.

Now as for the melee dmg,i told you some facts that i see:

- blademasters who only spec pierce hiting our chain suporters well while on zerk,savages doing 150 dmg at max fully bufed, but they got slam !! wow , how many pierce /slash spec Bm/mercs are out there ?
-anytimers on alb at least have 0.60% growth rate = ametist slash , doublefrost in mid has 0.75% and is high end ..waw colosal diference, i m prety sure anytimers on hib have somewhere around 0.58% growth too .
-you got anytime sidestun on ur Bm s yet i see em coming and slaming loosing dps/ time in a fight because of switching shield , who s fault is that?
- last but not least mouse Bm s made of celts who come and tickle us wiht their dmg , same goes for alb with brit mercs , make ur dmg clases out of firbolg /half ogre for god sake if u wana hit ,yes +30/40 to str helps and then come complain.

You contradict yourself in the same post. I explained it to you like 5 times in this topic yet you refuse to understand.

Is it fun when you do this:

Toblerone wrote:

Stormha wrote:Just a question , if mid melees are so op ; why Albs and hibs guild group loose only against Mids casters groups or Hybrids groups?

Because mid tanks are retarded and AT on a reaver guarded by a paladin (yes hi hello, your group from last night that we wiped easily 3 times ).

Not only , we lost too because really bad shaman and pac healer ( cant win a mezz with sos ).
And if you want speak about strategic errors, think about 2 merc and 1 pal ( chain snare ) who follow a dark runemaster overextended .
Sorry its your group (100% time )against hybrid compo mids Toblerone .

Flaming about Mids errors , but look about yours errors ; maybe it learns you to play better

Don't say mid tanks are weak then blame it on pac healer and shaman. Try making some sense for a change, plx.

Force wrote:Volley is hopefully being fixed, and was not implemented by those who would be implementing OF RAs to my knowledge so it isn't a great example.

So who will implement them if not the staff?

Force wrote:Custom NF changes would suffer from more issues than any custom implementation of OF anyway.

Just not true.
OF RAs are untestable and therefore totally custom.

Force wrote:Pre-reqs don't make things necessarily cost more than they do in NF, for example, MoC3 is more points than MoC from OF, even with all the pre-reqs.

Yes they do, becasue some of them are useless for some classes.
Moc is expensive because it is a very powerful ability, unlike in OF where the cost to benefit ratio is just not balanced.

Force wrote:In fact you can just look at how the RAs themselves scale. In NF the latter levels of passives scale up, meaning going from AD4 to AD5 is more dex than going from AD1 to AD2. But in OF things were linear. So that meant that the best bang for the buck was achieved at lower levels, making the best passives available to the lower RR and higher RR alike. When the higher RR spent more points on higher levels of passives they received LESS of a bonus than when doing so in NF. Very easy to see this.

Again, cost to benefit ratio is better balanced in NF RAs.

Force wrote:On top of that OF RAs balanced tanks v. casters better than NF did in this setting. MoA, 100% MoC, no charge...etc...when tank v caster is better balanced it means mid v hib v alb is better balanced since each realm relies on their casters v tanks in differing degrees.

This is somewhat true, but on the other hand there is no mof in OF RA.
And knowing uthgards dubious ressist rate it would not be ok to have OF ras without mof for casters here.

Force wrote:explain why alb and hib casters are inferior to mid casters?

I understand that tank groups dominate, but when mids are running 2-3 casters I don't see the same advantage.

Alb casters are inferior because alb suffers from a lack of grp utility which was somewhat fixed in later patches.

And hibs just dont want to travel to emain which is understandable...

nixian wrote:

roflman wrote:No Braxis, we will have realm balance when people start pulling their fingers from eachothers asses and get down to changing this complete and utter mess of a so called "Classic" (withSCWTF?!) RvR server....

so mids are OP, people change realm bcos of it...if this was live they would implement exp bonuses for under population but they wont do that here cos they dont care. its THIER OWN server, not the communtiy, the word Community shouldnt even be used.

why is it you have such a negative attitude?

yes this is the staffs server - but why the f.. would they not want people to play on it and have the most fun they can? would be insane for the staff to want to ruin the server on purpose.. try get some common sense and then give a valid reason to why you don't think staff wants the best for the server

ok, i dont think the staff want the best for the server bcos they are doing nothing to change things that people want changed, posts about mids bein OP and x class bein OP and y class bein OP and certain RA's that shouldnt be etc etc(cud list hundreds of things but not guna waste my time) these posts have been going on for the best part of a year...and nothing has been done.

Therefor Nixian, it leads me to believe they dnt give 2 fks about their server being the best, it alrdy beats all other freeshards...but it needs that little bit more, Uthgard needs to either make staff changes, or actually get staff who want to help change it how the community want it. simple.

there are between 200-1000 people who want to play on the server, soon that number will just drop and drop, then u will be left with 500 zerkers/bms/mercs and ofc PD5 rangers....(best rvr EVAH!) aye

and my negative attitude is from years of DAoC being ruind by people who dnt have a fkin clue....just like GOA, one thing special about the uthgard team is you dnt even have to TRY to ruin DAoC it has been ruined before...and ur just going in the same direction cos u dnt listen u just talk, good day.

and Nixian,u may feel i always direct my anger at you, it is for a valid reason, your the uthgard forum moderator are you not?

less making porn videos using DAoC footage, play hib less and start concetrating on filtering this information towards the devs, bcos if they dont know whats wrong then no1 rly does, eh.

and yeh you might have been here on uthgard for a while, so what....it doesnt mean u kno more than anyone else here.

roflman wrote:

nixian wrote:

roflman wrote:No Braxis, we will have realm balance when people start pulling their fingers from eachothers asses and get down to changing this complete and utter mess of a so called "Classic" (withSCWTF?!) RvR server....

so mids are OP, people change realm bcos of it...if this was live they would implement exp bonuses for under population but they wont do that here cos they dont care. its THIER OWN server, not the communtiy, the word Community shouldnt even be used.

why is it you have such a negative attitude?

yes this is the staffs server - but why the f.. would they not want people to play on it and have the most fun they can? would be insane for the staff to want to ruin the server on purpose.. try get some common sense and then give a valid reason to why you don't think staff wants the best for the server

ok, i dont think the staff want the best for the server bcos they are doing nothing to change things that people want changed, posts about mids bein OP and x class bein OP and y class bein OP and certain RA's that shouldnt be etc etc(cud list hundreds of things but not guna waste my time) these posts have been going on for the best part of a year...and nothing has been done.

Therefor Nixian, it leads me to believe they dnt give 2 fks about their server being the best, it alrdy beats all other freeshards...but it needs that little bit more, Uthgard needs to either make staff changes, or actually get staff who want to help change it how the community want it. simple.

there are between 200-1000 people who want to play on the server, soon that number will just drop and drop, then u will be left with 500 zerkers/bms/mercs and ofc PD5 rangers....(best rvr EVAH!) aye

and my negative attitude is from years of DAoC being ruind by people who dnt have a fkin clue....just like GOA, one thing special about the uthgard team is you dnt even have to TRY to ruin DAoC it has been ruined before...and ur just going in the same direction cos u dnt listen u just talk, good day.

and Nixian,u may feel i always direct my anger at you, it is for a valid reason, your the uthgard forum moderator are you not?

less making porn videos using DAoC footage, play hib less and start concetrating on filtering this information towards the devs, bcos if they dont know whats wrong then no1 rly does, eh.

and yeh you might have been here on uthgard for a while, so what....it doesnt mean u kno more than anyone else here.

Ill just quote this post of yours.

You, roflman, are the stupidest poster I have ever seen in any forum ever.

I dont like flaming but seriously that was needed. Your posts are worthless and add nothing.

Braxis wrote:So who will implement them if not the staff?

Just not true.
OF RAs are untestable and therefore totally custom.

Yes they do, becasue some of them are useless for some classes.
Moc is expensive because it is a very powerful ability, unlike in OF where the cost to benefit ratio is just not balanced.

Again, cost to benefit ratio is better balanced in NF RAs.

This is somewhat true, but on the other hand there is no mof in OF RA.
And knowing uthgards dubious ressist rate it would not be ok to have OF ras without mof for casters here.



Alb casters are inferior because alb suffers from a lack of grp utility which was somewhat fixed in later patches.

And hibs just dont want to travel to emain which is understandable...

The current staff, which was a different staff than those who implemented volley, hence different people, different results.


Custom NF RAs are untestable, and have nothing toward which you can customize. OF RAs may need to be implemented in a custom fashion, but the end goal is something created my mythic, not pulled from thin air.


MoC in OF was balanced through its timer and duration, coupled with a lack of TOA bonuses, in this setting it is balanced. I can't remember the last time I was moced on by a caster that was a threat. Pick any class, and compare what it can have in OF versus NF, in every instance you will see NF being more favorable to the high RR than OF. Give specific examples where this is not the case if you don't believe it is so.

Cost to benegit ratio isn't "better" in NF, it is more favorable to those with more RSPs, hence, OF closes the RR gap, which is the point. Whether that is "better" depends on your perspective. I don't care about the subjective, I am looking at the difference between NF and OF objectively, in that regard, OF has a smaller RR gap.

One of the few things I would include with OF RAs, would be MoF and det4 for hybrids, both of which are testable.

You've not explained in any way why alb/hib caster groups suffer compared to mid. Having to run from ligen is not a reason, our mid group roams all the way to ligen and back all the time.

Toblerone wrote:Don't say mid tanks are weak then blame it on pac healer and shaman. Try making some sense for a change, plx.

learn to read correctly

Force wrote:

Braxis wrote:So who will implement them if not the staff?

Just not true.
OF RAs are untestable and therefore totally custom.

Yes they do, becasue some of them are useless for some classes.
Moc is expensive because it is a very powerful ability, unlike in OF where the cost to benefit ratio is just not balanced.

Again, cost to benefit ratio is better balanced in NF RAs.

This is somewhat true, but on the other hand there is no mof in OF RA.
And knowing uthgards dubious ressist rate it would not be ok to have OF ras without mof for casters here.



Alb casters are inferior because alb suffers from a lack of grp utility which was somewhat fixed in later patches.

And hibs just dont want to travel to emain which is understandable...

The current staff, which was a different staff than those who implemented volley, hence different people, different results.


Custom NF RAs are untestable, and have nothing toward which you can customize. OF RAs may need to be implemented in a custom fashion, but the end goal is something created my mythic, not pulled from thin air.


MoC in OF was balanced through its timer and duration, coupled with a lack of TOA bonuses, in this setting it is balanced. I can't remember the last time I was moced on by a caster that was a threat. Pick any class, and compare what it can have in OF versus NF, in every instance you will see NF being more favorable to the high RR than OF. Give specific examples where this is not the case if you don't believe it is so.

Cost to benegit ratio isn't "better" in NF, it is more favorable to those with more RSPs, hence, OF closes the RR gap, which is the point. Whether that is "better" depends on your perspective. I don't care about the subjective, I am looking at the difference between NF and OF objectively, in that regard, OF has a smaller RR gap.

One of the few things I would include with OF RAs, would be MoF and det4 for hybrids, both of which are testable.

You've not explained in any way why alb/hib caster groups suffer compared to mid. Having to run from ligen is not a reason, our mid group roams all the way to ligen and back all the time.

Well its obvious that old ras wont be implemented in a month or two (i doubt they will ever be on this server). There is also no clear deicision made yet so what this server needs its a blanace introduced quickly without waiting for things which may never happen. So lets exclude old ras from the discussion and focus on more realistic solutions?

okay roflman let me tell you a few things then:

ok, i dont think the staff want the best for the server bcos they are doing nothing to change things that people want changed, posts about mids bein OP and x class bein OP and y class bein OP and certain RA's that shouldnt be etc etc(cud list hundreds of things but not guna waste my time) these posts have been going on for the best part of a year...and nothing has been done.

If staff truely would to listen to every single QQ / flame / rant about class X or RA Y being OP / not good enough - do you REALLY and honestly believe the server would be better?

every single day (or close to) we (the staff) gets tons of requests for things to implement / nerf / make better..

if they were to listen to all of them.. where would we be? nowhere.. because every single player has his perspective on things and they will always be influenced by what class they play and what classes they face in rvr .. listening 100% to the community / players will NEVER and I repeat: NEVER, be a viable solution - as much as the community would love it.. (some would not though - I am one of those who would rather see Uth staff worry about current bugs than to worry about balancing off class Y or X cuz some punk got owned in rvr just 1 too many times)

Uthgard needs to either make staff changes, or actually get staff who want to help change it how the community want it. simple.

Staff changes are needed - yes.. HOWEVER .. the changes needed are not their mentality because I can assure you that ALL staff members lives and breathes for the Uthgard project and for making the best DAoC server EVER made.. believe me when I say so!

the staff change that is needed is simple:

MORE STAFF..

there are between 200-1000 people who want to play on the server, soon that number will just drop and drop, then u will be left with 500 zerkers/bms/mercs and ofc PD5 rangers....(best rvr EVAH!) aye

Simply doubt that will ever happen..

there is NO evidence showing that the server population is going to drop any time soon - rather the opposit..

and my negative attitude is from years of DAoC being ruind by people who dnt have a fkin clue....just like GOA, one thing special about the uthgard team is you dnt even have to TRY to ruin DAoC it has been ruined before...and ur just going in the same direction cos u dnt listen u just talk, good day.

Reason for us spending 90% of our time talking is due to the massive amount of requests from players who want clarifications on things - like you here.. When staff spends time explaining stuff - maybe you for once should start listening instead of talking..

now - to the real issue your trying to point out (the omfg staff hates us and don't wanna listen to us)..

This is simply a big mistake from your side.. the staff listens A LOT to the community compared to live servers..

example:

Bug is found that a certain alb bracer is bugged and needs a fix - this fix however screws up 90% of all alb templates.. so what do the staff do? they listen to the community and understand how much of an issue this is and implements a special npc that in return of changing stats on the bracer gives full cleaning of SC on all armor and weapons.. would mythic / goa EVER have done anything like this for their community?

example2:

Players complain about auctioneer being full all the time

staff respond: they start working heavily on CMs and housing issues to make this a valid way of trading / selling stuff

and Nixian,u may feel i always direct my anger at you, it is for a valid reason, your the uthgard forum moderator are you not?

I am A forum mod - I am not THE forum mod.. but yes..

less making porn videos using DAoC footage, play hib less and start concetrating on filtering this information towards the devs, bcos if they dont know whats wrong then no1 rly does, eh.

When did I start getting payed for my free work I do for the community and for Uthgard? when I do start getting paid you are in your full right to tell me to do my job instead of surfing, playing, etc.. until then.. go away and let me do my work when: I WANT TO!

and yeh you might have been here on uthgard for a while, so what....it doesnt mean u kno more than anyone else here.

I might not - however I am 99% sure I know a lot more than the average Uth player - esp. when it comes to the staff, their opinions and what they think about stuff..

if you chose not to care for that knowledge, that is not my issue - I just try to do my job here.. (which I do in my spare time)


ps. this message took about 20 mins to write - if you feel you want to pay me for that work go and donate whatever amount you think im worth to the server so we can ensure this server is kept up and running - it sure as hell wont go to me - and it shouldn't ever...

Shav wrote:Well its obvious that old ras wont be implemented in a month or two (i doubt they will ever be on this server). There is also no clear deicision made yet so what this server needs its a blanace introduced quickly without waiting for things which may never happen. So lets exclude old ras from the discussion and focus on more realistic solutions?

I think old RAs are probably the most realistic solution at the moment. The staff doesn't seem interested in custom changes, and I can't blame them. Who is to decide what custom change would bring balance?