Sorry, but I find that extremely hard to believe.

I was there for days during primetime and not a single killspam was from Odins (except mine). And just like I told Nixian, I have NEVER since OF was introduced met 10+ solo people in Odins within an hour. I wasn't there yesterday, but I can ask some people I knew were camping. When where you there exactly?

i dont know exactly when, but its been somewhere inbetween 5 and 8 pm gtm+1 in the area nottmor faste, amg and hmg

Satz wrote:i dont know exactly when, but its been somewhere inbetween 5 and 8 pm gtm+1 in the area nottmor faste, amg and hmg

same here.. around same hours

Nymeros wrote:No you can't, I've been there for HOURS for several days. I saw only a few grays passing by and maybe 1 or 2 incs at best. I repeat, hours.

Zarkor
Yes, really.

The Battleground system was concieved as an alternative to RvR. You can claim they're free to level, but they are NOT free to RvR, and that's the whole point. And they wouldn't encounter a solo lvl 50, not in OF.

And no, it wouldn't increase smallman and solo action. I am a Thid player becouse of OF (hated it back in NF). We would just quit.

All the other changes should be able endgame RvR to coexist with the Battleground system. If they can't do that, then it's the system's fault, and not the fault of alternatives.

Once again, removing Thid is simply against common sense. It's just a single step away from removing DF for the same misguided reasons.

If you really can't fix OF without actually TAKING PARTS OF THE GAME OUT, then it really is completely flawed.

Well, everything I suggested without touching the BGs (maybe replacing them by classic maps and split Braemar up but nothing more than that) will still improve RvR and especially solo/smallman RvR.

I think you're going over this a bit too stubborn though since you say you would quit if Thid got removed even if smallman got fixed...


Anyway I think I've pressed on the removal of those BGs too much since you clearly didn't get that I'm still all about fixing end RvR. The BG removal is just a part of that, which is focussing on creating a new mindset in end RvR. Again, without touching BGs, my suggestions will effectively solve the problems OF is encountering now (and don't give me that "oh dude it's all fine and dandy, just zerg up and it's fun"-sh*t because it's just not) besides changing the mentality (if that's even considered as a real problem).

Just ignore the "rework BGs part" and you have it.

Removing the battlegrounds as they are now would only make ppl who enjoy them quit, rather then go to places like OF which they avoid by going to thid in the first place...

Try a non destructive solution to our problem.
Ruining someones fun just so you can have yours is not a constructive solution but a destructive one.

EDIT: changing the mentality is a question of having the right incentive to do something else.
Not removing what you're currently doing, but showing that something else is better.

Braxis wrote:Removing the battlegrounds as they are now would only make ppl who enjoy them quit, rather then go to places like OF which they avoid by going to thid in the first place...

Try a non destructive solution to our problem.
Ruining someones fun just so you can have yours is not a constructive solution but a destructive one.

EDIT: changing the mentality is a question of having the right incentive to do something else.
Not removing what you're currently doing, but showing that something else is better.

Well, like I said, READ only the parts that do not require the reforms of BGs.


Even though I don't agree with you, if you so insist on choosing BG RvR (even though the removal of wilton and thid would create a situation which would allow the BG type of gameplay IN old frontiers, making the entire reason to pick BGs instead of OF obsolete) you can still go to thid, murdaighean, caledonia, nobody is stopping you.

It seems like people can't grasp the fact that a drastic change does not only mean negative consequences but also positive ones (such as offering the possibility for a BG like playstyle in OF).

Zarkor wrote:Even though I don't agree with you, if you so insist on choosing BG RvR you can still go to thid, murdaighean, caledonia, nobody is stopping you.

Yes, but that are not the same BGs as the ones we have now.

Zarkor wrote:It seems like people can't grasp the fact that a drastic change does not only mean negative consequences but also positive ones (such as offering the possibility for a BG like playstyle in OF).

I now, with lvl50, fully temp and rr4 with a FG get rollde by a mid FG without even killing a single mid.
Do you think that would change for a lvl36 rr2 zerg?
I don't think so.
All that would change is the player population.

Braxis wrote:Yes, but that are not the same BGs as the ones we have now.

That's not of any relevance is it? They play BGs simply because of the possibility to stick with their playstyle without having to spend hours to get the same amount of action they would get in 30 minutes in BGs.

If you manage to get that same possibility in OF, then you succesfully remove that need to play BGs instead of end RvR and especially removing the need to get as close to end RvR situations as possible while staying inside those BGs.

Braxis wrote:I now, with lvl50, fully temp and rr4 with a FG get rollde by a mid FG without even killing a single mid.
Do you think that would change for a lvl36 rr2 zerg?
I don't think so.
All that would change is the player population.

Well first of all that's just 1 group of Mids. Currently that seems like a rather large part of the RvR population but with 12 enemy FGs or 10slot grps running instead of 5 it's not going to be that bad when you get run over by that one group since the chances of that happening again next run are considerably smaller and the amount of fun you get inbetween considerably bigger.

Not to mention lower RR grps will tend to add those nasty higher RR groups and being with like 4 low RR grps vs 1 high RR grp will only increase the chance on getting added, making that high RR grp getting tired of the situation aswell, seeking new and cleaner fights elsewhere such as Hadrians.


Second, nobody would be silly enough to think removing BGs makes lvl 36 2L5 players able to kill a lvl 50 grp with even the double amount of players, therefore they WON'T be heading out to Emain first thing after leveling out of Caledonia. What happens is they look for good xp spots in the frontiers because of the bonus. They will find either other xpers (battle for the spot is rewarded by great xp, rps and great xp because you won the spot) or solos or smallmans. Even though solos or smallman will be able to kill most xp grps in a pull, these xp groups will also be a place for friendly solos and smallman to roam around since they will want to kill whoever wants to kill their xping allies.

It will simply spicen up the (currently inexistant) solo and smallman action a way similar to what we had in NF where there were decent XP bonusses in NF near Agra and Agra itself. The only difference would be that by granting an RP bonus for players under level 50 and RR4 and a massive XP bonus you will give an incentive for those level 40-49 (mabey even 36-40 aswell if really courageous or foolish ) 40-49 players to not just go out in OF to find an XP spot and hope nobody comes to kill you but to actually go out and hunt smallmans/solos and even do this as a viable way to get RPs ASWELL as XPs, making it the ultimate way to improve their character, succesfully bringing low RR and low level players into the smallman and solo RvR action zone.

Again, they would have to be simply foolish or 'too courageous' to try and do this in Emain since they would just get rolled by 50s.

However once they hit 50, they won't be bothered "by the zomg you can't run in a bigger than 8 group because that makes you suck" policy that's currently in place because they're used to using superior numbers to counter superior strength.


All in all, all this can also be a possibility WITHOUT removing the BGs and just grant all these bonusses in OF so that it's till optional whether you chose to level and xp the exciting way in OF or chose the slower (since the xp bonus for killing enemy players should be drasticly higher in OF) and less challenging BG way.

I just think that by removing those BGs, the guidance towards a new mindset for those players is stronger and will have more chance on succesfully making the end smallman and solo RvR flourish since there just won't be a possibility to divide the action.


Either way though, I think making XPing through PvP in OF a more viable option than doing so in BGs or even the only option in general would be a serious improvement to the current RvR system aswell as RvR mentality.

That being said, these are probably the last words I've spent to the entire topic and with that my drive to make this server exploit it's full potential. The harder I try the less they listen and the more I waste my time making me look like a frustrated no-lifer.

Yes, I'm letting it rest for now, even though I will still check forums regularly.

Good luck chaps! Thanks for listening. /wave

Just removing Thidranki would be a bad idea, agreed. It should really be about moving Thidranki into the frontiers. I mean, noone will seriously dispute that there's more than enough room out there. So what else would it take to make players want to be out there before lv50 ?

Pre-agramon on Uthgard, emain level spots were well used, despite the risk of gankers. During OF on lifeservers, there were always people out leveling, ganking levelers, and hunting gankers. Actually, the situation in Uthgard's DF is very similar already. The same kind of action in the frontiers would even have the advantage of players being able to much more quickly join some keep defense or reraid when the opportunity arises, to break the monotony of pure leveling.

Anything to kickstart this kind of action on Uthgard would probably make current Thidranki almost obsolete without removing it. But what changes, lifelike or custom, would be necessary ?

Improved frontier exp bonus ?
Big exp rewards for taking keeps ?
DF seals dropping from frontier mobs ?
Special bindstones/hasteners/porters for sub lv50s ?
Auto-promotion to 4l2 or even 5l0 at lv50 ?
Buffbot NPC for sub lv50s, working only in the frontiers ?

There surely are several sets of changes that could achieve the goal. The discussion wether moving Thid is a good idea or not should really center around if a vialble set of such changes exists that is acceptable for implementation on Uthgard.

Better spots for exping in OF would be very nice.

Exping action in hadrians/odins will lead to ganking action which may attract even more action.

I dont get how xp bonus will change anything. Uthgard is grinding, true, but the problem isnt xp, thus noone will join end RvR just for having faster ups (while having at the same time sukky stuff that falls way behind the lvl), if it doesnt pay off over time. The problems are connections, supply, rps. Luring just with xp is a lame trick to get meat to end RvR. Even if there were counter zergs, xping is finished at that moment, whilst rp would defintelty still suck with all that adding.

Yes thats right. XP bonus is not a solution. Remember your gold income is lowered by faster XP too so your equipment falls behind.

Blue wrote:Yes thats right. XP bonus is not a solution. Remember your gold income is lowered by faster XP too so your equipment falls behind.

Not if you combine an increase in cash reward to that increase in XP... and besides, it's still players and probably tough players you need to be killing to make it worthwhile. You can't take this for granted like you can with mobs.

Hobbes wrote:I dont get how xp bonus will change anything. Uthgard is grinding, true, but the problem isnt xp, thus noone will join end RvR just for having faster ups (while having at the same time sukky stuff that falls way behind the lvl), if it doesnt pay off over time. The problems are connections, supply, rps.Luring just with xp is a lame trick to get meat to end RvR. Even if there were counter zergs, xping is finished at that moment, whilst rp would defintelty still suck with all that adding.

Like I said, they would avoid going Emain but prefer smallman and solo zones.

If they encounter an enemy low level FG there then it would just be the same situation as in Thid only with higher rewards.


As I also said, xp isn't the issue, it's the attraction of players to OF. Getting better xp by killing enemies than grinding mobs will attract them to OF. The fact that it's better and more fun matters, not that xp sucks. People will go where xp is best, which would be OF in that case.




Bleh like I said, noone seems to listen anyway, I can't even seem to listen to myelf. What am I even doing here still?

Weia is one of the few people actually getting it. /hug

zarkor its still the same thing we had with agra^^

as a low level you are practically FORCED to level in the rvr zones since "the exp bonus is so much better". as long as agra existed, the fins, which are the definitive best place to level past 40 in hib, was dead. completly dead.

ppl where so attracted to the big exp bonus in agra that they didnt even understand that by leveling there, they actually made less xp due to getting raped constantly while feeding rp to the high RR that roamed the area.

and yes, a lvl 40 group WILL get wiped by a single lvl 50.

if the exp is good, the spots are big and the spawn is fast, they WILL pull to the limit of what they can handle.

all a lvl 50 has to do is killing 1 or 2 key group members.

he could attack and kill the maintank that holds all the aggro.
chances are good that he will succeed with the mobs hitting him and the healers barely coping.
if the maintank dies with 5 strong mobs, the next ones to get aggro are the healers, which includes the crowdcontrol.

you could take out the druid too and the group will just fall to pieces.

and so, even if you are a non det no purge class without any form of CC, what are they supposed to do when you show up? they can mezz you, thats about it. they cant just say to the mobs, hold on a minute please, we are right back.

agragmon meant big exp for a very limited time.
fins means fast, stable basecap exp without downtime.

and what you suggest ist exactly what we had with agramon, just i a different placement.

sure go for it.
but bet the live of your low toons that i WILL roam the good level spots and wipe every single player i encounter, just i was trying to make some exp in agra.


the benefit for the 50 is much much higher then the benefit for the low lvls.

and that will attract more solo/small grp combinations to farm the level groups.

even with 200% exp bonus, i wouldnt set foot out there if i cant be 100% sure that i can make use of it for more then 5 minutes^^

if the ppl dont wanna get out as lvl 50 with rr4 due to being overpowered, lvl 40 rr2 wont go out in the first place.
i rather mindlessly grind from 36 to 50 then to go out there as an even easier target.


try an experiment - when there are 2+ fgs mids and/or albs around, take your sg and ask a pug to come along rather then running alone against 1 vs 2-4 odds.
see how that plays out.