nuglord wrote:3222 online 604 in frontier


thats 20% of the population in a pvp game, how many are exping and dont want to ?

i sure would log right in to RVR if i could.

pls buff exp blue and i will <3 you forever

i dont care about dragon or SI or anything else.

You'd be surprised how little that % actually changes, if at all. It was the same when we had 200 people online or 1000 or 5000. I think it would make for a rather interesting study.

No need toa stuff. If you want toa bonuses and rewards, go play life.

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Warhammer had a good system with defense ticks for defending a keep afterwards, I liked it, despite it encouraging people standing around for 10-15m after a keep defense. It encourage people to get out and defend what was theirs and also rewarded them for doing it successfully. The RPs are really the ward we are all looking for, but these static defense ticks were really good once you got high RR and your rp/kills continued to go down. Just my 2 cents!

An overarching incentive to encourage play in the various facets of the game would not hurt.

It's nice that GMs are keeping an open mind on certain issues / feedback. I often get the feeling they like to bash ideas down without intaking all aspects of the point, when they are not within the 1.65 patch range.

Blue wrote:

nuglord wrote:the amount of people RVRIing is very small

Thats incorrect. At the moment 608 players are in OF zones.

Did this number also include people in the portal keeps? I assume yes.

Tree wrote:

Vlalkor wrote:If people took and actually defended their keeps, lots of rps to be had... thing is people get bored and leave right after claiming instead of fortifying their keeps... user error imo.

Alright imagine you have 3-4 hours free time every evening for gaming. You take 1 hour for building up enough groups for keep raids and get all the rams and whatever, then you get to the keep (likely with no resistance at all, because the doors will fall just too fast) and then what? You sit the next 2-3 hours inside the keep hoping someone will come and raid it back? You know 90% of the time that won't happen until sometime the next day. Sounds like a lot of fun.

No, but people don't even bother to upgrade the doors to make it last longer when people do attack... upgrade the doors/keep level, that way when they do attack it you have time to get there and actually defend the keep instead of it going away so fast.

Abydos wrote:

nuglord wrote:3222 online 604 in frontier


thats 20% of the population in a pvp game, how many are exping and dont want to ?

i sure would log right in to RVR if i could.

pls buff exp blue and i will <3 you forever

i dont care about dragon or SI or anything else.

You'd be surprised how little that % actually changes, if at all. It was the same when we had 200 people online or 1000 or 5000. I think it would make for a rather interesting study.

now, that is interesting...would explain mythic's decision for toa

I'm not sure how rps for keeps would play out.

What is balancing the whole game so far is that it takes so long to xp to 50.

By design DAOC is a revolving door. New players come, old players go, people make alts, etc.

I do think increasing xp will allow new players or keep more players, ie double xp weekends.

I think double rp in bgs weekends or events would be good as well, to give people a taste of it.

Is there another motivator besides giving rps for taking keeps?

Why would xpers go into the frontier at all if they can xp safely outside frontier?

nuglord wrote:3222 online 604 in frontier


thats 20% of the population in a pvp game, how many are exping and dont want to ?

i sure would log right in to RVR if i could.

pls buff exp blue and i will <3 you forever

i dont care about dragon or SI or anything else.

Welcome back Cave Shaman. The 7th account you made?

In my opinion xp is much too fast here and the possible pushing alts with high levs sets a crown on it.

With longer time to xp many 2.-10. Alts stay in their stable and ppl focus on their mains.

With no option to push ppl we see more ppl who lfg XP or lf RvR.
The reality tells us:there will be in every setup a bunch of player who will focus on the pve side of daoc, u dont get them into rvr.

A big mass of players are half linked to the rvr scene and everyday they decide to play an alt/farm/craft/whatever or go into rvr. If rvr dont gives them positiv moments they tent to go more into pve.

Only a small % of ppl are in the "whole day rvr" class (maybe 10-20%?) And are good supported/connected with rvr ppl around them to have chances in 8v8 fights.

If we talk about what help rvr u have to specify what rvr u talking about.

If u wanna get more ppl to8v8: yes then keep incentives or other things like titles are not helpfull.

But the fact is: daoc is no 8v8 game (sad but true, i love it everytime) , it is designed as a battle of zergs for controll of keeps to make it possible to raid mighty artifacts.

And in this point i understand why we need something that gives ppl a reason to participate for this main goal.
U get bonuses for keeps?nice,but 9/10 ppl dont even know what is meant by it...they want something for "their" pocket.

So i think all of the tools to make rvr attractive should be avalible, so more ppl with different targets enter the rvr. I like a bunch of roses, but i more like a bunch of different flowers.

Helpfull things out of my view are (yes most mentioned above) :

- bonus xp in frontier,raising when at more dangerous spots

- rvr quests

- def/attack rps for keep raids

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Perhaps the bigger issue is what Abydos touched on in his reply. Maybe the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of players (80%, apparently) simply have no strong drive to participate in endgame RvR. Be it because they don't have enough time to ever get there, or know the game well enough to understand that they wouldn't be competitive or because they enjoy the mind-numbing monotony that is DAOC PVE.

Adding certain QoL features, or XP bonuses, might be able to shift those numbers a bit, but how much is anybody's guess. Imho if the motivation isn't there, no amount of incentives will change that (unless it becomes unreasonable^^). That aside, it would be very out-of-character for the staff to even entertain such ideas.

Lasastard wrote:Perhaps the bigger issue is what Abydos touched on in his reply. Maybe the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of players (80%, apparently) simply have no strong drive to participate in endgame RvR. Be it because they don't have enough time to ever get there, or know the game well enough to understand that they wouldn't be competitive or because they enjoy the mind-numbing monotony that is DAOC PVE.

Adding certain QoL features, or XP bonuses, might be able to shift those numbers a bit, but how much is anybody's guess. Imho if the motivation isn't there, no amount of incentives will change that (unless it becomes unreasonable^^). That aside, it would be very out-of-character for the staff to even entertain such ideas.

50 RvR is just a big time waste if you dont have a setup grp/known guildgrp. Sure you can Zerg and raid keeps for fun.
I bet there would be big battleground community out there with binding in BGs,xp/rp off etc and it would help alts for 50 rvr.

woopdiwoop wrote:

Lasastard wrote:Perhaps the bigger issue is what Abydos touched on in his reply. Maybe the simple fact of the matter is that a lot of players (80%, apparently) simply have no strong drive to participate in endgame RvR. Be it because they don't have enough time to ever get there, or know the game well enough to understand that they wouldn't be competitive or because they enjoy the mind-numbing monotony that is DAOC PVE.

Adding certain QoL features, or XP bonuses, might be able to shift those numbers a bit, but how much is anybody's guess. Imho if the motivation isn't there, no amount of incentives will change that (unless it becomes unreasonable^^). That aside, it would be very out-of-character for the staff to even entertain such ideas.

50 RvR is just a big time waste if you dont have a setup grp/known guildgrp. Sure you can Zerg and raid keeps for fun.
I bet there would be big battleground community out there with binding in BGs,xp/rp off etc and it would help alts for 50 rvr.

I kinda have to agree with this. I was able to get in a bunch of groups on saturday for RvR and had a great time. However, the rest of the weekend I didnt have much time to devote to RvR, so I pve'd. However when I did have time for RvR, I pretty much sat in DL LFG. After 30-60 mins of LFG, I just switched chars and PvE'd.

This can certainly kill some folks drive to RvR when unable to get a group. not to mention that most pug groups will get rolled as soon as they leave any HPK or portal keep. Short of setting up a zerg, which seems like a good idea on paper, but most of the time will include a long wait of gathering enough ppl to make a run out for rps or keeps worthwhile.

I think from a Hib stand point, still need to wait for many to hit 50 but also with the dragons popping again (THANKS DEVS!!!!), people were busy getting those respec stones. So time will tell but certainly can get frustrating never being able to find a group or get into a guild group.

I think this has shown that a true classic server doesn't work. Whilst Live in current form does blow, there were huge strides taken to make this game more enjoyable for the masses. Currently, Uth is spot on for 8v8, it's brilliant. Anything else is falling by the wayside.

I do find a lot of people have given up on it, the realisation of what is required to get going on here has put people off, myself included.

Hopefully there will be some QoL changes in the future to help benefit the more casual player, as it stands, it's a nice idea but the progress is slow that a good handful have gotten bored and drifted back to other games.

Everz1 wrote:I think this has shown that a true classic server doesn't work. Whilst Live in current form does blow, there were huge strides taken to make this game more enjoyable for the masses. Currently, Uth is spot on for 8v8, it's brilliant. Anything else is falling by the wayside.

I do find a lot of people have given up on it, the realisation of what is required to get going on here has put people off, myself included.

Hopefully there will be some QoL changes in the future to help benefit the more casual player, as it stands, it's a nice idea but the progress is slow that a good handful have gotten bored and drifted back to other games.

I'm sure it's true that a lot of folks have given up and moved on (or back) to another game. But that's not unique to Uthgard. Every MMO has that issue. People try a game for a few hours or days and then drift away. I recall a study that showed that a SUCESSFUL MMO would retain ~ 30% of it's players after the first month. So, it's to be expected that ~ 70% of those who try the game won't stay.

And yet, Uthgard needs a sizable population to be fun. Here, the other players are our targets. If we don't have enough targets we'll all stop playing. Is there any hope? Sure, new players keep starting the game. Some of them will like it and stay active for a while. As long as enough new players come in to replace those moving away, the game will do well.

Now, the question might be asked, 'What tweaks could the staff do to increase the player retention rate?'. Would some of the QoL changes to make the game more friendly to new players keep them playing longer? It MIGHT but too many changes to make the game easier will drive some of the hardcore players away. So, it isn't easy to know which QoL changes will retain more players than they drive away.