Uthgard • View topic - Unofficial Uthgard RP Leaderboards

Unofficial Uthgard RP Leaderboards

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seanbud Myrmidon Posts: 166 Joined: Apr 12, 2009 00:00	Reply with quote by seanbud » Mar 01, 2017 11:44 to some extend thats true but not rly. no1 was really good during original classic era. everyone played the game wrong. TOA pretty much exposed all the bad players that were somewhat decent during classic cos the game suddenly demanded ALOT more skill. this was even more true when NF came and fights were less depending on RA´s cos most of the time both groups would have everything up or atleast close to everything. however i do agree that some of those early-mid TOA groups had overall more potential than most groups you see these days and they would probably smash 99% of the current groups if they kept playing and followed the meta over the last decade and kept the same level of professionalism and dedication they had in their prime which however is unlikely cos lets be honest who actually goes full tryhard in an almost 20 year old nonfactor game its definitaly true the competition on uthgard is non existent. there is literally like 2-3 groups total on this server that know how to play the game. rest is just random scrubs that have never been good at it and most likely belong to the crowd that quit when TOA came cos they couldnt compete anymore. lol Last edited by seanbud on Mar 01, 2017 23:13, edited 1 time in total.

Borabora Warder Posts: 45 Joined: Jul 24, 2010 00:00	Reply with quote by Borabora » Mar 01, 2017 12:01 XiaN^^ wrote: Castra wrote:Arrogance. You don't need to know who I am, you just need to know that there are people out there who are more experienced and skilled than you. where have they been the last 15 years? cos we have been dominating every server we ever played on since. i think thats just a pipedream of yours. however stay mad pls mr random #9434 its quite amusing So you never played on Bossiney, right?

Borabora Warder Posts: 45 Joined: Jul 24, 2010 00:00	Reply with quote by Borabora » Mar 01, 2017 12:06 ----------------- Last edited by Borabora on Mar 01, 2017 12:07, edited 1 time in total.

Borabora Warder Posts: 45 Joined: Jul 24, 2010 00:00	Reply with quote by Borabora » Mar 01, 2017 12:06 Syntax wrote: XiaN^^ wrote: Castra wrote:Arrogance. You don't need to know who I am, you just need to know that there are people out there who are more experienced and skilled than you. where have they been the last 15 years? cos we have been dominating every server we ever played on since. i think thats just a pipedream of yours. however stay mad pls mr random #9434 its quite amusing Some of those older groups would smash every single group on this server. Uthgard is like the leftovers of old daoc who got all leet when the good groups moved on from the game. Happens every MMO. Haha, yeah sure. Dream on.

Ayuro Warder Posts: 26 Joined: Feb 10, 2017 17:11	Reply with quote by Ayuro » Mar 01, 2017 14:44 Love this post, FreeShard players trying to know who has the biggest D. Best post ever!!!! Keep it on

Caemma Phoenix Knight Posts: 1358 Joined: Oct 14, 2011 21:15 Location: Unknown	Reply with quote by Caemma » Mar 01, 2017 14:55 Ayuro wrote:Love this post, FreeShard players trying to know who has the biggest D. There was a time when Uthgard 1.0 existed and maaaany toons and arrpees arose... but now:

Outphaze Myrmidon Posts: 157 Joined: Jan 24, 2011 23:17	Reply with quote by Outphaze » Mar 01, 2017 16:00 Syntax wrote:Some of those older groups would smash every single group on this server. Uthgard is like the leftovers of old daoc who got all leet when the good groups moved on from the game. Happens every MMO. Lol. Hear people saying this on every server as if it actually means something. I don't buy it for a few reasons: 1. Typically people get better the longer they play as they gain experience and practice. A lot of the 8v8 crowd on shards have been playing for over a decade. This isn't rocket science big guy. 2. I see no reason why all of the "good groups" would decide to quit playing while only the "leftovers" continue playing on shards. Why would you think that? Typically when you're good at something you keep doing it. The total number of high quality players probably decreased but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the players themselves - there are just fewer players... 3. In reality you have absolutely no idea how old groups would do versus groups here. You're just assuming the groups here suck because you can't stand some players having an ego. 4. Even if the groups here aren't as good as some of the elite groups back in the day, I'd bet money it's because it's harder to find 8 skilled players that can all play together NOW compared to how it was back then (rather than the players here being less skilled individually) - there are fewer players on shards, so it's harder to find a solid group of consistent guildies. Not impossible, just harder. But even so, it doesn't really matter because every group here has the same problem with finding good players in a small pool of players - so being the best here is no different from being the best on live in its hayday. The competition is the same. Finally, why do you care so much? The fact that you actually get upset with people when they get cocky for doing well just shines light on your own insecurity. "I suck but you aren't really that good either, groups from 2003 would've pwn3d u!" It's just a sad defense mechanism honestly. I mean if that's what you have to do to sleep at night by all means keep saying stupid sht like that. If you want to shut down their ego then beat them at their own game - start killing them. But talking sh* just feeds into their ego and makes you look like an idiot. Cheers, Sailor ---

Castra Warder Posts: 39 Joined: Feb 21, 2017 15:50	Reply with quote by Castra » Mar 01, 2017 16:33 Outphaze wrote: Syntax wrote:Some of those older groups would smash every single group on this server. Uthgard is like the leftovers of old daoc who got all leet when the good groups moved on from the game. Happens every MMO. Lol. Hear people saying this on every server as if it actually means something. I don't buy it for a few reasons: 1. Typically people get better the longer they play as they gain experience and practice. A lot of the 8v8 crowd on shards have been playing for over a decade. This isn't rocket science big guy. 2. I see no reason why all of the "good groups" would decide to quit playing while only the "leftovers" continue playing on shards. Why would you think that? Typically when you're good at something you keep doing it. The total number of high quality players probably decreased but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the players themselves - there are just fewer players... 3. In reality you have absolutely no idea how old groups would do versus groups here. You're just assuming the groups here suck because you can't stand some players having an ego. 4. Even if the groups here aren't as good as some of the elite groups back in the day, I'd bet money it's because it's harder to find 8 skilled players that can all play together NOW compared to how it was back then (rather than the players here being less skilled individually) - there are fewer players on shards, so it's harder to find a solid group of consistent guildies. Not impossible, just harder. But even so, it doesn't really matter because every group here has the same problem with finding good players in a small pool of players - so being the best here is no different from being the best on live in its hayday. The competition is the same. Finally, why do you care so much? The fact that you actually get upset with people when they get cocky for doing well just shines light on your own insecurity. "I suck but you aren't really that good either, groups from 2003 would've pwn3d u!" It's just a sad defense mechanism honestly. I mean if that's what you have to do to sleep at night by all means keep saying stupid sh*t like that. Even though this is the general logic towards this situation, it's actually incorrect. I've played Quake 2 since 1998, and one thing I have learnt over the year is that even though the game evolves, the players do not. Quake 2 is a small community compared to it's former glory, just like DAoC. Over time, players leave games, and with them so does the talent pool. A lot of people mistake experience for talent but they are two separate factors which constitute a player's ability. On Uthgard, the game is actually played very similar to how it was on classic servers, such as Excalibur (I know because I was there). However, the way it is played has evolved and been refined over the years. You don't give the players of old enough credit, when it is actually them who lay the foundations of how most people play today. It's a common ignorance and naivety that people exude, similar to how people think mankind was incapable of building the Pyramids or Stonehenge. Also, people do quit games. I've seen people come and go from DAoC, Quake 2, and other games for two decades now, despite being good at them or not. People get old and have commitments, or just get bored. It's difficult to say whether the players or guilds of old could compete now, but I'm almost certain that if the guilds of today were playing back in 2002/2003, they wouldn't stand a chance. At the end of the day, DAoC is very much an opportunist's game: you need to be in a specific environment to compete: templated with a well structured eightman composed of experienced and talented players, otherwise you can't really do anything besides roll a sneak.

Ayuro Warder Posts: 26 Joined: Feb 10, 2017 17:11	Reply with quote by Ayuro » Mar 01, 2017 17:11 Just saying, a lot of "top 8mans" of Uthgard are actually groups who were pretty good in Live

Outphaze Myrmidon Posts: 157 Joined: Jan 24, 2011 23:17	Reply with quote by Outphaze » Mar 01, 2017 17:37 Castra wrote:Over time, players leave games, and with them so does the talent pool. Yes I said that. But do you think talented/skilled players are more likely to leave than casuals? Castra wrote:A lot of people mistake experience for talent but they are two separate factors which constitute a player's ability. I agree practice can only make up for so much. There are definitely some innate qualities that contribute to someone's skill. But this is irrelevant to my post. Castra wrote:On Uthgard, the game is actually played very similar to how it was on classic servers, such as Excalibur (I know because I was there). However, the way it is played has evolved and been refined over the years. You don't give the players of old enough credit, when it is actually them who lay the foundations of how most people play today. It's a common ignorance and naivety that people exude, similar to how people think mankind was incapable of building the Pyramids or Stonehenge. Yeah none of this is even remotely relevant to anything in my post. Castra wrote:Also, people do quit games. Wow. Scintillating insight! Castra wrote:It's difficult to say whether the players or guilds of old could compete now No, it's impossible. Castra wrote:but I'm almost certain that if the guilds of today were playing back in 2002/2003, they wouldn't stand a chance. Yeah that's your opinion but in reality it doesn't mean anything because it's just guesswork. Cheers, Sailor ---

Castra Warder Posts: 39 Joined: Feb 21, 2017 15:50	Reply with quote by Castra » Mar 01, 2017 18:21 Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:Over time, players leave games, and with them so does the talent pool. Yes I said that. But do you think talented/skilled players are more likely to leave than casuals? Unless they're getting paid to play, I think real life takes priority no matter how good you are. The talent pool is obviously going to be a lower ratio, but reasons for leaving are consistent for anyone. Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:A lot of people mistake experience for talent but they are two separate factors which constitute a player's ability. I agree practice can only make up for so much. There are definitely some innate qualities that contribute to someone's skill. But this is irrelevant to my post. Well considering the whole subject is about comparing the old school to the new school, I would say it's very relevant. Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:On Uthgard, the game is actually played very similar to how it was on classic servers, such as Excalibur (I know because I was there). However, the way it is played has evolved and been refined over the years. You don't give the players of old enough credit, when it is actually them who lay the foundations of how most people play today. It's a common ignorance and naivety that people exude, similar to how people think mankind was incapable of building the Pyramids or Stonehenge. Yeah none of this is even remotely relevant to anything in my post. Actually, it's an explanation of how the older generation of players established and contributed to the meta. The game, in essence, is played the same as it was pre-TOA. However, the methods used in RvR have evolved, and by that I mean they have become more complex, efficient, and clean, but fundamental the same. When comparing an older generation to a newer generation you have to take into account of what constitutes as skill and talent. But first and foremost, you need to understand that talent can be measured. Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:Also, people do quit games. Wow. Scintillating insight! Thanks! Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:It's difficult to say whether the players or guilds of old could compete now No, it's impossible. I started Quake 2 in 1998 which was basically within six months of its release, but even after about two years of playing it, I would get totally owned by some people. Now, eighteen years on, I'm one of the best Quake 2 players on the planet; but why couldn't I be back in 2000? The answer is simple: some people were just better than me. Could those people beat me now? Probably not. Even though I had some talent, back then the talent pool was so big that it was like climbing Everest compared to a sandcastle. Sometimes these players return to Quake 2, and you can feel the raw talent exuding from them, how they're able to pick up the game after years and show resistance even to veterans like myself. So, yes, actually, it is very possible to determine whether they could. Outphaze wrote: Castra wrote:but I'm almost certain that if the guilds of today were playing back in 2002/2003, they wouldn't stand a chance. Yeah that's your opinion but in reality it doesn't mean anything because it's just guesswork. It is an opinion, I can't deny that. But it's opinion based on logic and experience.

Outphaze Myrmidon Posts: 157 Joined: Jan 24, 2011 23:17	Reply with quote by Outphaze » Mar 01, 2017 19:28 Castra wrote:Unless they're getting paid to play, I think real life takes priority no matter how good you are. The talent pool is obviously going to be a lower ratio, but reasons for leaving are consistent for anyone. Well considering the whole subject is about comparing the old school to the new school, I would say it's very relevant. Lower ratio? Again, why do you think talented players are less likely to return to DAOC shards than the casual player? A fewer total number of talent =/= "lower ratio." You're basically saying if 5% of the pop back in 2003 was talented now it's <5%. Why would you assume that? Castra wrote:Actually, it's an explanation of how the older generation of players established and contributed to the meta. The game, in essence, is played the same as it was pre-TOA. However, the methods used in RvR have evolved, and by that I mean they have become more complex, efficient, and clean, but fundamental the same. When comparing an older generation to a newer generation you have to take into account of what constitutes as skill and talent. But first and foremost, you need to understand that talent can be measured. Who cares who contributed to the "meta"? Of course the first players built the foundation, big deal. This isn't a conversation about who contributed more to RVR, it's about who would win in a fight. Again this boils down to whether or not you think talented players are less likely to play now vs then. Outphaze wrote:I started Quake 2 in 1998 which was basically within six months of its release, but even after about two years of playing it, I would get totally owned by some people. Now, eighteen years on, I'm one of the best Quake 2 players on the planet; but why couldn't I be back in 2000? The answer is simple: some people were just better than me. Could those people beat me now? Probably not. Even though I had some talent, back then the talent pool was so big that it was like climbing Everest compared to a sandcastle. Sometimes these players return to Quake 2, and you can feel the raw talent exuding from them, how they're able to pick up the game after years and show resistance even to veterans like myself. So, yes, actually, it is very possible to determine whether they could. Doom is a bad example for a few reasons. 1. It's a FPS, which relies a little more on hand-eye coordination and reaction time than the qualities that are important in DAOC (which relies heavily on strategy, teamwork, multi-tasking, and making split-second decisions/adaptations mid fight). Don't get me wrong, hand-eye/reaction time is very important in DAOC it's just not everything like it is in FPS. You can have the fastest reflexes in the world but if you can't work well as a team you'll lose. Plus, lots of players on these shards have been playing together for years, a big advantage that classic DAOC players didn't have. Hell, some guilds didn't even use TS. (You might say it's not fair to compare groups back then with now due to players today having these advantages - but then you can't compare them at all.) 2. There are many more FPS games than rvr - the FPS crowd moves around more. DAOC is pretty unique in its style of play, so you see a disproportionately large number of veterans that return after 15+ years. I agree it's easier to be the best group on a small server. That's obvious. Less competition = easier to be the best. But that doesn't say anything about how good a group is. The best group on a 2000 pop server is probably more likely to be better than the best group on a 500 pop server, but you 100% can't say so for sure. Plus, I've played with a handful of people on these shards that were in the top 8v8 guilds on their server back in the day. You also seem to keep trying to change this discussion to something revolving around talent rather than who would win a fight. Your conclusion goes something like: "If the best groups back in the day continued playing all of these years, they'd be better than the best group here, even though the new group here is better today than they were in 2003." It's really a futile point to make because: a) Lots of us were too young to even compete back then. The best players in these games are usually late teens/early 20s. So just because some people here weren't in their prime/top of their server on classic doesn't automatically mean they sucked. b) People have more time to commit to games at different points in their lives. Just because some people went to school in 2003 and couldn't devote tons of time to DAOC every day doesn't mean they're not talented. c) You have no reason to believe people were more talented back in 2003 than 2017. It's just dumb to compare then to now. Cheers, Sailor ---

Borabora Warder Posts: 45 Joined: Jul 24, 2010 00:00	Reply with quote by Borabora » Mar 01, 2017 19:40 Daoc is not really a skill based game. Not like Quake or - even better example - LoL. Where a single player can easily carry a whole team. Ofc some classes are harder to play/master than others, you need a better overview, faster reactions, more accurate click skills, consider more options etc. But Daoc in 8vs8 is all about team setup, communication, coordination, split second decisions. Something you build with team work, experience, self-confiedence, calm. And most important: moral. You wouldn't believe how bad ppl play after they lost 2-3 fights in a row. Instead of improving, they just play worse until they log or avoid fighting us. The reason I still play and enjoy Daoc is because you can play on a competitive level without the cpm rates of a 16-year-old.

Ayuro Warder Posts: 26 Joined: Feb 10, 2017 17:11	Reply with quote by Ayuro » Mar 01, 2017 19:50 Borabora wrote:Daoc is not really a skill based game. Not like Quake or - even better example - LoL. I stopped reading after this nonsense... comparing 3 differents game type, asking different skills... (Off topic, LoL isn't skilled anymore, Riot lower it's skill cap every year to get more ppl playing ).

Castra Warder Posts: 39 Joined: Feb 21, 2017 15:50	Reply with quote by Castra » Mar 01, 2017 20:16 I think you're really missing the point, Sailor, but at least you're looking at the various factors which DO effect the competitive structure. I can't really be bothered getting into it any further because it's going to get complicated which will result is huge time consuming posts that will flood the thread (if that hasn't happened already). Let's just agree to disagree. Oh, and Borabora ... comparing LoL to Quake 2 is like comparing Hungry Hippos to Chess.