RonELuvv wrote:Satiah, get this straight: THE OLD SYSTEM DIDNT WORK!!! This also may not work, but its a change that MAY result in more casual RvR in Emain. You talk about these mythical people who were capping Thid and going out and being a part in Frontier 8 vs 8 fights at 4L2. Those players didn't exist.

They do and I count myself as one of them. But you got a point that there arent a lot of new players in RvR. But nobody cares to ask why. Instead lets just remove Thidranki, so they have to go into the Frontiers! That will solve it. Right.

So get this straight. They havent changed anything about the old system. Infact they just made it A LOT worse. But don't take my word for it. Let's just wait and see what happends. If I'm wrong, it can only be good for the server.

Edit: The only thing people think about is how to get people into the Frontiers. Not the trouble of how to get there and to be able to compete. If you can't, you'll just log or, reroll something else. You want new players and groups in there, go easy on them and let them have fun along the way. Give them an incentive to go there. Stop reminiscing about the past glory of DAoC and how this worked. Its bin too long and people got used to DAoC by now. Nor does Uthgard have the numbers.

A new guild group that comes here, faces high rr guild groups. Without any resources they hade on the live servers. Same goes for the new player. They WANT to RvR, but they face a terrible boring way to get there. THAT's what stopping them from going to the Frontiers. That's not an excuse. It's just not something they are willing todo in their free time, nor find any fun at all.

Satiah wrote:

Raggnar wrote:I've seen it happen. Anyway, from 4L2 to 5L, should have stated that. So for all the qqers, you can easily get from 3L to like 4L5 in one week just by keep taking and fighting there. Let's assume at least 50% of people that are currently populating thid and constantly re-rolling toons go to frontiers, action will pick up. And once they get to like 4l or 4L5 they can get their core abilities(most classes) and do RvR, everything else is just a ****** of excuses. I won't be competitive bla bla bla. There will be other groups of that realm rank out so it's a fair fight, even if they're slightly higher. Most of people that complain how endgame rvr will suck for them with no 4L2 thid don't even have a rr5 toon and are hardly ever seen in the frontiers. Also, you don't need to ZERG. You do /realm or check herald, see which keeps are claimed and go hit them. If you get wiped by more people than you brought or higher rr, bring a few more, make a nice fight. If that's not your cup of tea, fine...you can still do this for 1-2 weeks(would be no different in thid anyway) until you get some core abilities and then switch to 8v8. I really don't see the problem with this. Thidranki is 99% of the time an idiotic zerg fest with no coordination anyway, why on earth would people want to constantly reroll toons there is beyond me.

You mean they first need to lvl from 42 to 50 and then do the fulltime keeptasking for a week (make that a month or two). Completely forgetting the point that Pbuck made about quality 8vs8 RvR. You asume that taking keeps will generate action. Not only doesn't it serve any goal (except for opening df), why would people defend them? Also it's still 300.000 rps you are talking about doin tasking.

Not only will there be other groups of the "same" realm rank, the high rr groups will be farming these low pugs with a smile on their faces. Then you say bring more. Again ignoring the point about quality 8vs8 RvR. Leave alone that you need another group willing to keep task.

And last but not least. You constantly point at building zergs but, in your last sentence you say:

Thidranki is 99% of the time an idiotic zerg fest with no coordination anyway, why on earth would people want to constantly reroll toons there is beyond me.

An idiotic zerg fest with no coordination.

I give up.

Quality 8v8 comes in time, that's all. Groups got rolled on low rr even with thid 4l2 cap, but after few weeks they were good or were looking for challenges elsewhere until they get decent rr. Excuses, excuses, excuses...that's all. If you want to do 8v8, you will endure the period where you will lose more than win, and after you get some rr's, it will be ok. And yes, thidranki is ****** retarded...you can't get a fair solo fight unless you are playing around 4 AM Euro time, and you can't get fair group fights cause even the fairest of players zerg like hell there just to cap it fast.

Raggnar wrote:Quality 8v8 comes in time, that's all. Groups got rolled on low rr even with thid 4l2 cap, but after few weeks they were good or were looking for challenges elsewhere until they get decent rr. Excuses, excuses, excuses...that's all. If you want to do 8v8, you will endure the period where you will lose more than win, and after you get some rr's, it will be ok. And yes, thidranki is ****** retarded...you can't get a fair solo fight unless you are playing around 4 AM Euro time, and you can't get fair group fights cause even the fairest of players zerg like hell there just to cap it fast.

Well time is fine. But people need to enjoy that time spend. If not, it stops there. Simple.

Edit: Also you need to adapt if the zergs are out. DAoC manual, chapter 1.1.

Double post 4tehloose.

Thats all quite possible, and I'm not even saying you are wrong. All I know is this, when I started here there was TONS of custom stuff that did all of what is being asked here. There was simple stuff to gain to use in templates (Taj), there were places to farm easy money (Taj), there were easy ways to gain XP (DF, Frontier Dungeon, Mile Gate Zones), there were custom BG's that allowed for higher RR's (4L2 current system), and on top of all that we had things like barrells/xp off/hastners and all sorts of other random custom changes that made making a toon lvl 50, 4L2, and fully capped super easy. All of that got is to where we are right now. TONS of BG toons, and very little Frontier RvR action.

Now players see all these things and say, "Well how are we supposed to compete now that its so much harder to get new players to higher RR." My question is why were these players not taking full advantage of the situation that allowed for this to happen to begin with? Maybe, and I cant stress 'maybe' enough here, the answer was to go the opposite way and make it more difficult. Now players will NEED to go out to Frontier RvR if they want to get to 50 quickly and if they want to gain a RR above 2L9.

I hate to agree with Zarkor, but if they could make more camps out there for lvl 43-49 and increased loot a bit it would get alot more people out. Look at how much action happened around the Ellyls in Alb frontier when they were bugged and dropped massive amounts of loot. People on Alb would get ganked all the time, but always came back. The reward was worth the risk. I'm not saying you need to make a spot that is that bugged on loot, but a spot that can earn good money in each realm's frontier is a sure fire way to get some lower level people out. Especially later at night when the population really drops.

RonELuvv wrote:Now players see all these things and say, "Well how are we supposed to compete now that its so much harder to get new players to higher RR." My question is why were these players not taking full advantage of the situation that allowed for this to happen to begin with? Maybe, and I cant stress 'maybe' enough here, the answer was to go the opposite way and make it more difficult. Now players will NEED to go out to Frontier RvR if they want to get to 50 quickly and if they want to gain a RR above 2L9.

No they where not (taking full advantage). Remember that you're talking about the casual player here. Lot's of them solo without a (proper) guild aswell. Just because some people are able to get rr12, that doesnt mean everyone hade the chance todo it. It's all a matter of time. Lot's of very good players want to enjoy DAoC, but have gotten 10+ years older now. They don't have the time nor do they want to go through the works again to get there (like they did in 2003). Which has nothing todo with an excusses (which some people keep hammering about), it's just how it is. They just log in to see whats out there, if nothing, log again.

Personally I can't wait todo some serious 8vs8. But I need 7 more people (with a setup and TS) todo this with. Currently all I can do is wait at DL and spam lfg. And if I do happen to get a group, just hope we dont run into the (high rr) midzerg. If we do, people will just log because its pointless to go out again and blaiming the low rr unknown player for his skills no doubt.

So Ill try some solo action on my NS or Ranger. But I haven't got the gear (even after 4 years) with the charges that buff me (leave alone the rr). So pointless again.

Time to log on something else or craft. It's bin like that for years.

Now after Thidranki is gone, nothing changed for me when it comes to the Frontiers. But I've lost Thidranki aswell, so no RvR at all. Only thing that remains is to craft or PvE.

And that's just me. With the cash and crafters to gear up my low level toons. Nevermind the new players.

Satiah wrote:

RonELuvv wrote:Personally I can't wait todo some serious 8vs8. But I need 7 more people (with a setup and TS) todo this with. Currently all I can do is wait at DL and spam lfg. And if I do happen to get a group, just hope we dont run into the (high rr) midzerg. If we do, people will just log because its pointless to go out again and blaiming the low rr unknown player for his skills no doubt.

So why don't you make a zerg to fight the midzerg?
Why don't you start getting 7 other people to make your own 8 man?
Uthgard has it's own TS server too btw.

I already know your answer, here is a quote:

"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty" - Teddy Roosevelt

This means, if you want a consistent 8 man, you must put in the effort.

If you want a zerg to rely on to make RPs, you must put in the effort (or ride coattails off someone elses work).

It's very hard, maybe even impossible to make a consistent zerg, or easily find 7 other reliable people for 8vs8 at lvl 50 right now, I understand but...this stuff happens in thid right now, no reason it can't happen in emain once thid is gone.

Top wrote:So why don't you make a zerg to fight the midzerg?

Make a zerg. Well, this requires a lot of people willing todo so. Usually with a goal too (to make it worth the time and effort).

Why don't you start getting 7 other people to make your own 8 man?

Have and will keep on trying. Still takes the same amount of time as spamming lfg. As the random guy looking for players wont attract the same (amount of) players as the established ones do.

Uthgard has it's own TS server too btw.

I know. What's your point? That everyone can get onto TS? Sure, but not everybody wants too.

"Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty" - Teddy Roosevelt

Yes, quoting Teddy Roosevelt has a meaning when it comes to Uthgard. As I said before, I couldn't care less about Teddy Roosevelts quotes when it comes to DAoC (the pain, the effort, the difficulty). I want some fun when it comes to online gaming (so nevermind Teddy). Perhaps ill put some effort in it too once in a whiled. If Uthgard doesn't provide, I'll just log and you can keep on playing with your hardcore buddies. It's as simple as that. I can tell from experiance that it will get pretty boring (die'ing servers) soon though.

This means, if you want a consistent 8 man, you must put in the effort.

Like I said before. I don't have the time, the players, nor the will todo so. Read it as an excus all you want. It doesn't change my opinion, nor my will to play (more) at all. I'm pretty sure this goes for a lot of casual players. Consistent means appointments. If you ever played in a guild group, you know this is something that's a pain even with a large guild. Nor can I, or want to commit to this.

A nice casual pug (like Thidranki) that's all i'm asking for (even without the serious 8vs8). With a chance to do some decent RvR without getting rolled (by a midzerg (or adds)) or the usual high rr guild group. It's the pug I join on live when I'm bored. Which is just not happening here. Why? I've answered that question already (established players).

If you want a zerg to rely on to make RPs, you must put in the effort (or ride coattails off someone elses work).

I don't. A zerg happends. If there is a zerg (with a bg up) and I'm alone I might spam lfg there too. If no invite, no bard (or speed class). So it's pointless yet again (hello OF).This is another thing that people fail to recognize when it comes to OF vs NF (hello hastner).

It's very hard, maybe even impossible to make a consistent zerg, or easily find 7 other reliable people for 8vs8 at lvl 50 right now, I understand but...this stuff happens in thid right now, no reason it can't happen in emain once thid is gone.

Thidranki is an instant port back, rebuff and go out. So who cares if you get rolled. There is hardly any realm rank difference. Someone has to leave the group? Take the next guy. No (well hardly any) guild groups that permanently farm pugs. Guild groups do run around but, the pugs still have a good chance to win if they play well. Aswell as they (the guild groups) will cap out soon enough, so goodbye to them.

Perhaps this wont change for albs and mids (2 min port back to emain), but for hibs this is a whole different story. Enjoy your 2 realm RvR.


The sum it up. All I read is you telling me to get "hardcore". And my answer to that is, I don't want too (for whatever reason). I just want to enjoy the game. Your (amongst others) responce to this is that you read this as an excuse. It's not, it's just the way it is.

This is Uthgard. You have to know, things are not easy here. That is why it has the population it does, because if it were easy, it would mean nothing and you'd have the population of the insta 50 servers. This is not new thinking and applies to everything, not just a video game.

I've spent most of my time on Uthgard in Emain feeding RPs to the high RR groups. Sorry if I have no sympathy for someone who complains about that. I'm not hardcore, and neither are most of my friends I play with. We just understand what the server is and take the bad (losing because of RAs) with the good (a nicer level 50 RvR environment than live).

If everyone else did the same, we'd have a healthy population in the frontier and there would be plenty of action for all player types.

Daoc has never been a casual game. If you want casual make you a LGM crafter. The problem with the server is all you cry babies not willing to take the lumps to get where you 'need' (want) to be.

People complain that lvl 49 capped Thid players keep re-rolling toons and don't go to rvr in the frontiers, yet seem to think that making the BG cap 42 will solve this "problem"?

Surely you understand, to the people who enjoy BG's its not the level of your character that is important but the fun you have?

Dropping the cap to 42 will just mean the re-rollers will re-roll at 42 instead of 49.5.

For those of us casuals who don't want to go into frontiers, taking away our toys isn't going to force a change of mind, that's just what playground bullies do and expect.

Asapp wrote:Daoc has never been a casual game. If you want casual make you a LGM crafter. The problem with the server is all you cry babies not willing to take the lumps to get where you 'need' (want) to be.

Or perhaps it's all the people complaining about the 'cry babies' and telling them to go do some PvE/Crafting because they're casual, when the discussion is about RvR.

Top wrote:I've spent most of my time on Uthgard in Emain feeding RPs to the high RR groups. Sorry if I have no sympathy for someone who complains about that. I'm not hardcore, and neither are most of my friends I play with.

If everyone else did the same, we'd have a healthy population in the frontier and there would be plenty of action for all player types.

Unfortunately not everyone may have the time you do, as many people to group with as you, both friend or PuG or the patience to feed enemies like you. I'm sure most of us realize that isn't any other players or the staffs problem. This has always been the case with DAoC, but when DAoC and thus Uthgard's main player base is 10+ years older, it's nonconstructive and detrimental to zealously stick to outdated gameplay mechanics and ideology that was designed for a much, much larger server population.

Top wrote:So why don't you make a zerg to fight the midzerg?
If you want a zerg to rely on to make RPs, you must put in the effort (or ride coattails off someone elses work).

It's very hard, maybe even impossible to make a consistent zerg, or easily find 7 other reliable people for 8vs8 at lvl 50 right now, I understand but...this stuff happens in thid right now, no reason it can't happen in emain once thid is gone.

This only works if there's a large enough player pool on the realm you're playing on. Last night on Hib for example (and actually, most nights since the BG announcement), even in Thid where everyone wants to get as much RP's as possible, there wasn't more than 2fg hib throughout, and both groups running solo trying to meet other groups and avoid the large Mid/Alb zergs. It's much easier said than done when you're under the illusion every realm has the same active population as live in 2002, and you think the other realms have the same amount of people as you do. I still had fun - but I have the time to waste 6+ hours of my time being rolled by zergs on /stick when there's only fg's facing them atm with it being the holidays.

Are you Tophat by any chance?

borog wrote:Surely you understand, to the people who enjoy BG's its not the level of your character that is important but the fun you have?

They they don't have enough easy inc in the Frontiers

But at the same time there should be a system in place to encourage players to have fun in the Frontiers instead of BG's, - the endgame and final progression point of DAoC's original design, it's just unfortunate people want to strictly stick to what live was like at a certain patchlevel~ when the playerbase isn't there, for nostalgia's sake: CC - all the people that say 'that's not what classic/live was like'.

There's obviously something not fun in endgame if more players are RvR'ing in sub 50 battlegrounds than progressing their characters at endgame. But then any discussion or suggestions on ideas towards fixing this, and encouraging more players into the Frontiers are instantly dismissed.

Top wrote:This is Uthgard. You have to know, things are not easy here. That is why it has the population it does, because if it were easy, it would mean nothing and you'd have the population of the insta 50 servers. This is not new thinking and applies to everything, not just a video game.

That's just fine and you can keep feeding of eachother no problem at all. You want a hardcore base with a 6 year advantage vs the new player. You've got it. You feel to recognize that people want to enjoy the game. And that it IS a game, a free game. If I want to get hardcore I'll just go back to the live servers. With all the goodies and nice latency to go with it.

There's a difference between the i50 servers and Uthgard. It's not the hardcore RvR. It's that you need to xp before you can RvR. Amongst some other things.

I've spent most of my time on Uthgard in Emain feeding RPs to the high RR groups. Sorry if I have no sympathy for someone who complains about that. I'm not hardcore, and neither are most of my friends I play with. We just understand what the server is and take the bad (losing because of RAs) with the good (a nicer level 50 RvR environment than live).

If everyone else did the same, we'd have a healthy population in the frontier and there would be plenty of action for all player types.

You fail to read what I said earlier. Again with the complaints and excuses. You read it as an complaining, it's not. It's the way it is. If I don't enjoy the game, I will stop playing it. Yet you persist that I should keep on playing against my will and complain that the Frontiers need a new influx of players.

Satiah wrote:If I don't enjoy the game, I will stop playing it.

Will you stop posting then, too?

Snigel wrote:

Satiah wrote:If I don't enjoy the game, I will stop playing it.

Will you stop posting then, too?

Sure.