Llithium wrote:Take a runemaster/eld and your problem is nullified.
Just because people like Holsten are addicted to stick'n'hit and press alot of active RA's to win it doesn't mean the theurg is overpowered, because their healers can't simply press their spread heal button to survive anymore.
Same for the hibs who run the full tank groups as well.

Alb can't affort this luxury easy way of grouping. Ever since alb is disadvantaged with building effective setups, because the utility is far spread towards the different classses (just to list the unique things alb can't combine due to a lack of space in 8man groups):
sorc, cleric, cleric for the base cc and buffs (3)
pala (enduchant) (4)
caba (NS and disease) (5)
theurg (bt, haste and dmgadd for tanks) (6)
minstrel (speed 5, sos) (7)
friar (elemental resists, base buffs) (8)
And here you see the perfect 8man utility alb group without any source of serious dd.

Hib needs Bard, Druid, Druid, Warden, Eld / Mid needs Skald, Healer, Healer, Shaman, Rune for the exact same utility and can easily add the dmg as they prefer.

So more tears about the theurg pets which overpower the albion realm so hard please, go!
It 's not enough, that Wizard, Friar, Armsman and Minstrel are like handicaps for alb groups, because their impact is too low for the endgame RvR. Especially since the high RR mid/hib setgroups roll towards the lands to farm more RP.

True, alb group is not as easy to builld, but DAOC is pure alb love game. First of all, every albion tank is hard to drop. They all have shields and at least chain armor. Your clerics have superior rr5 compared to druid/healer. Also, even if a mid group runs with 2x RM, that's still a ****** more work for warrior than paladin ever has, since mid/hib casters mostly get trained on uthgard, while you mostly must split on albs and be a rupt bot. Even against an alb group that has minimum number of casters, it's very hard to assist train, since there are at least 2 high priority targets that need to be perma controlled. Your mercs hit harder than zerks, have good rr5, better armor, ****** evade(wow, big deal), access to all 3 types of attack and have dirty tricks and flurry + of course slam.

If we are following some common sense, midgard should have best tanks, hibernia best casters, and albion should be in the middle of everything. Although albion has various abilities spread over many classes(which makes it hard to build a group, as you've stated before), you still have best tanks and best casters. Sure, Eldritch is amazing, both in utility and damage, but combination of alb casters is still sick. Since the mob damage change, yellow and blue mobs hit for decent amount of damage(so it's not just rupts). Sorc and cabby(especially rr5) pets cause a lot of problems for any group, and on top of that you have a theurg. Reaver is a class that for sure does not belong here, with det 5 and leviathans. Even on live they figured that ****** is overpowered, so it's a part of a chain now. Here on uthgard, with little practice, good reavers can use levi as anytime style, it's a joke. Dishing out 2K dmg after a slam in only few secs is op compared to power pools and power regen on this server, not to mention that idiotic class has det5 and a large shield.

Person who made sorcerer was probably not even interested in giving other cc classes some edge. Sure, sorc lacks instant cc, but he has a very defined job(unlike bard and healer that have to do other ****** as well). Also, it's the only cc class that actually gets dex per level and can have 25-30 more starting dex than healer or 20 more than bard. Best mezz range, best mezz radius, ability to quick cast, yellow pet and a brutal rr5 ability + mezz dampener. Also, your clerics mostly don't have a tank assigned to them, purely because you have other high priority targets and at least one of them is free to shear and do what he wants.

So yeah, theurg is a very strong class, but what amplifies his strength is the other alb classes you need to focus on. Also, if theurg dies, he can still do his job effectively after he is rezzed. I mean, of course that team play and skill come first, but albion has many classes that are simply better if compared with class with the same role on another realm + they are even stronger in synergy. Btw, I've seen many fights where theurg used moc and won a lost fight. That one ability on that class often has a bigger impact than any skald that dumps 3 abilities at once.

First of all, every albion tank is hard to drop. They all have shields and at least chain armor. Your clerics have superior rr5 compared to druid/healer.

Both wrong, Druid RR5 > Cleri RR5. Blademaster is even with Studded Armor the hardest tank to drop because of 360° Evade3, Slam and a really nice RR5.

Also, even if a mid group runs with 2x RM, that's still a [I am a little bunny and like flowers] more work for warrior than paladin ever has, since mid/hib casters mostly get trained on uthgard, while you mostly must split on albs and be a rupt bot.

Warri also has the possibility to KILL his target unlike the Paladin And i dont know which game you are playing but except for Requiem almost all Tank heavy groups in mid and hib train casters on alb, since some ppl actually realized u dont necessarily need a tank to rupt

Your mercs hit harder than zerks,

Here on uthgard, with little practice, good reavers can use levi as anytime style, it's a joke

With "a little" practice u can avoid being anytime hit by Levi.

Best mezz range, best mezz radius, ability to quick cast, yellow pet and a brutal rr5 ability + mezz dampener.

compared to atleast 3 CC classes in every basic hib mid setup, with alot of instant spells as u mentioned

Also, your clerics mostly don't have a tank assigned to them, purely because you have other high priority targets and at least one of them is free to shear and do what he wants.

So your saying shaman always has a tank assigned to him? Also hes the only supporter who can effort to use moc1 only and shear and desease the crap out of every group in 30 seconds (which is time enough) One druid is usually free to do shears aswell

This is totally offtopic now guys, back to the Topic please !

We can discuss this in another Thread and i would love too, tbh!

Bloodwyne wrote:

First of all, every albion tank is hard to drop. They all have shields and at least chain armor. Your clerics have superior rr5 compared to druid/healer.

Both wrong, Druid RR5 > Cleri RR5. Blademaster is even with Studded Armor the hardest tank to drop because of 360° Evade3, Slam and a really nice RR5.

Also, even if a mid group runs with 2x RM, that's still a [I am a little bunny and like flowers] more work for warrior than paladin ever has, since mid/hib casters mostly get trained on uthgard, while you mostly must split on albs and be a rupt bot.

Warri also has the possibility to KILL his target unlike the Paladin And i dont know which game you are playing but except for Requiem almost all Tank heavy groups in mid and hib train casters on alb, since some ppl actually realized u dont necessarily need a tank to rupt

Your mercs hit harder than zerks,

Here on uthgard, with little practice, good reavers can use levi as anytime style, it's a joke

With "a little" practice u can avoid being anytime hit by Levi.

Best mezz range, best mezz radius, ability to quick cast, yellow pet and a brutal rr5 ability + mezz dampener.

compared to atleast 3 CC classes in every basic hib mid setup, with alot of instant spells as u mentioned

Also, your clerics mostly don't have a tank assigned to them, purely because you have other high priority targets and at least one of them is free to shear and do what he wants.

So your saying shaman always has a tank assigned to him? Also hes the only supporter who can effort to use moc1 only and shear and desease the crap out of every group in 30 seconds (which is time enough) One druid is usually free to do shears aswell

Druid rr5 better than cleric? ? Every person that's not blind will see the druid use it and land maximum 1 hit, and after that call for slam....come on man. And no, shaman does not always have something assigned, but shaman is often in the middle of the action and can be easily rupted as well. He cant afford to lay back like cleric and shear from better range(although his shears are faster). And BM's are easy to drop with RM that can assist fast(or cabby+sorc in your case). Had 0 problems with BM tank trains, only put 1 zerker on their ass to assist. And yes, warrior can deal damage, but he is to busy to do it most of the time. Mid and hib only technically have 3x cc class, not in reality. They all have different roles and their position does not allow them to utilize all of that(remember, they need to heal too). And yeah, test merc damage, they hit harder than zerkers on this server. Zerk has an option to go vendo, but overall dmg mercs are better, not to mention they have access to faster offhand weapons. Zerkers have no flurry and shield skill, their overall dmg should be pure brutalization compared to mercs and BM's, even without vendo. But hell, it's not like that. Game designers loved alb, it's the truth . Again, I am not saying alb is stronger, because it comes down to team play and skill, but it's not easy to fight against many classes that are very strong + 4 million pets.

As far as training goes and rupting without tanks assigned to some of the casters, please build a group on mid and go play against btl full french setup or a similar group, let me know how it went .

Druid rr5 better than cleric? ? Every person that's not blind will see the druid use it and land maximum 1 hit,

that 1 hit is enough to function as an insta heal and give the other 2-3 supporters in the hib group a 5 second buffer to get some heals off the target.

And no, shaman does not always have something assigned, but shaman is often in the middle of the action and can be easily rupted as well. He cant afford to lay back like cleric and shear from better range(although his shears are faster)

.

to me it seems like you see albs perspective from a setup limited POV. Clerics cant always stay in the back both, not at all, maybe in the BTL setup u mention later they have to but in almost every other setup atleast one is supposed to position almost as a shaman is.

And BM's are easy to drop with RM that can assist fast(or cabby+sorc in your case). Had 0 problems with BM tank trains, only put 1 zerker on their ass to assist.

I wonder how it is harder to kill a Merc than a BM, especially from mid perspective. BM has Charge AND RR5 to not get slamed + elemental resis which albs usually lack.

And yes, warrior can deal damage, but he is to busy to do it most of the time.

How are you ever to Busy to kill a target if you get the chance?

Mid and hib only technically have 3x cc class, not in reality. They all have different roles and their position does not allow them to utilize all of that(remember, they need to heal too).

their positioning perfectly allows them to utilitce CC in front AND backlines while a sorc will face problems getting any CC off against kiting caster/hybrid groups backlines.

And yeah, test merc damage, they hit harder than zerkers on this server.

i wanna see that test please

Game designers loved alb, it's the truth .

jeah the landscape is beautiful have u ever been to Stonehenge?

As far as training goes and rupting without tanks assigned to some of the casters, please build a group on mid and go play against btl full french setup or a similar group, let me know how it went .

Okay, melees have to split against castergroups in midgard is that what u are saying. Do you really think its different for the other realms?

i remember on classic + si.... x2 stun pets = perma stun. and x3 was overkill.

holsten-knight wrote:still theurg has not many needed RA, so he can get pd 5 quite early. To kill a theurg in melee is so hard, quite all tank grps in mid went from "theurg first target" to "keep the theurg ruptet, it is impossible to kill him as first target"... if any caster does not need more defensive abilities it is the theurg

did anyone else laugh ?

Bloodwyne wrote:Druid rr5 better than cleric? ? Every person that's not blind will see the druid use it and land maximum 1 hit,

that 1 hit is enough to function as an insta heal and give the other 2-3 supporters in the hib group a 5 second buffer to get some heals off the target.

And no, shaman does not always have something assigned, but shaman is often in the middle of the action and can be easily rupted as well. He cant afford to lay back like cleric and shear from better range(although his shears are faster)

.

to me it seems like you see albs perspective from a setup limited POV. Clerics cant always stay in the back both, not at all, maybe in the BTL setup u mention later they have to but in almost every other setup atleast one is supposed to position almost as a shaman is.

And BM's are easy to drop with RM that can assist fast(or cabby+sorc in your case). Had 0 problems with BM tank trains, only put 1 zerker on their ass to assist.

I wonder how it is harder to kill a Merc than a BM, especially from mid perspective. BM has Charge AND RR5 to not get slamed + elemental resis which albs usually lack.

And yes, warrior can deal damage, but he is to busy to do it most of the time.

How are you ever to Busy to kill a target if you get the chance?

Mid and hib only technically have 3x cc class, not in reality. They all have different roles and their position does not allow them to utilize all of that(remember, they need to heal too).

their positioning perfectly allows them to utilitce CC in front AND backlines while a sorc will face problems getting any CC off against kiting caster/hybrid groups backlines.

And yeah, test merc damage, they hit harder than zerkers on this server.

i wanna see that test please

Game designers loved alb, it's the truth .

jeah the landscape is beautiful have u ever been to Stonehenge?

As far as training goes and rupting without tanks assigned to some of the casters, please build a group on mid and go play against btl full french setup or a similar group, let me know how it went .

Okay, melees have to split against castergroups in midgard is that what u are saying. Do you really think its different for the other realms?

As far as splitting goes, it's not a rule, but you are often forced to. And yes, it's for sure different for other realms, since their groups do not have 2 casters already as base of the group. To deal some dmg with warrior, you need at least 2 hits with slow wep. Even with celerity, that gives few sec to some light tank to harass one of the guys you need to guard. As for BM trains, if they don't kill anything during charge, usually zerk peels them fast. Couple of snowsqualls and they run home, but you need to have a good RM to assist fast, and he needs to be free. Problem is, both BMs and Mercs can slam the warrior, while zerkers can't really do that. And again, cleric has by far the best rr5 of all seer classes. Merc vs zerk dmg, go test it with same speed weapons and same strength/qui and same buffs with same growth rate styles and same spec. I never said both clerics can stay in the back, but they are not usually first targets for anything, unless someone lands a box mezz and decides to drop one. Anyhow, as I've said before, it comes down to skill and team play, but albion groups are in general tougher to drop than hib or mid groups. Even with 4 healing classes in a hib group, I've had easier time dropping a damn BMs than mercs or reavers. Also, as I have already mentioned, do you realize that theurg can be dead 5 times in one fight and still do his job efficiently? Anyhow, I did not say I am 100% right, this is my point of view. Like I said, theurg is not the most OP class in game(sorc is), but combined with pets from other alb classes and all the other crap, he is a menace.

Skarz wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:still theurg has not many needed RA, so he can get pd 5 quite early. To kill a theurg in melee is so hard, quite all tank grps in mid went from "theurg first target" to "keep the theurg ruptet, it is impossible to kill him as first target"... if any caster does not need more defensive abilities it is the theurg

did anyone else laugh ?

why should we? its kinda true - especially for hib offtanks with lower per hit damage, killing a pd theurg is nearly impossible, but hopefully the buged healproc will be fixed soon, so that the clerics have to heal at least sometimes

and to the zerker > merc thing, out of hib point of few:

I havent met a merc who does 800+ dmg hits without aog - and the possibility to get celerity - but i have met a zerker who does those hits on a regular basis - so, zerker might not have the slam, but for sure he has superior dps - at least vs hibs.

In general Berserkers have higher growth rates on their styles than Mercenaries.

Harkon wrote:

Skarz wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:still theurg has not many needed RA, so he can get pd 5 quite early. To kill a theurg in melee is so hard, quite all tank grps in mid went from "theurg first target" to "keep the theurg ruptet, it is impossible to kill him as first target"... if any caster does not need more defensive abilities it is the theurg

did anyone else laugh ?

why should we? its kinda true - especially for hib offtanks with lower per hit damage, killing a pd theurg is nearly impossible, but hopefully the buged healproc will be fixed soon, so that the clerics have to heal at least sometimes

and to the zerker > merc thing, out of hib point of few:

I havent met a merc who does 800+ dmg hits without aog - and the possibility to get celerity - but i have met a zerker who does those hits on a regular basis - so, zerker might not have the slam, but for sure he has superior dps - at least vs hibs.

Well, that's probably only Flump and if you were hit, I assume Spakkaossa hit you that hard(keep in mind that he is rr11, he had augstr5 for a long time, he is full axe and still has augstr4 because he doesn't like purge 3 and some aom), and once in a blue moon if he gets a lucky crit off in vendo. Overall anytime dmg I'd say merc is slightly better than zerk. Zerks can choose + dmg against hibs, while they can hit only neutral on most alb group classes. Sure, I've hit BM's for 700-800 dmg on my norse zerk, and once 2 shoted a bard, but that's very lucky, if you get lucky crits in vendo(and they forget to use triple wield)...happens once in a month maybe xD. I'm just saying, damn mercs hit too hard, considering they have chain armor and some utility.

Skarz wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:still theurg has not many needed RA, so he can get pd 5 quite early. To kill a theurg in melee is so hard, quite all tank grps in mid went from "theurg first target" to "keep the theurg ruptet, it is impossible to kill him as first target"... if any caster does not need more defensive abilities it is the theurg

did anyone else laugh ?

only albs have a melee class that can deal such an imba dmg and ignore pd like a reaver u know

Harkon wrote:why should we? its kinda true - especially for hib offtanks with lower per hit damage, killing a pd theurg is nearly impossible, but hopefully the buged healproc will be fixed soon, so that the clerics have to heal at least sometimes

and to the zerker > merc thing, out of hib point of few:

I havent met a merc who does 800+ dmg hits without aog - and the possibility to get celerity - but i have met a zerker who does those hits on a regular basis - so, zerker might not have the slam, but for sure he has superior dps - at least vs hibs.

QQ - i cant kill a Theurgist with my Ruptbot BM within 10 seconds - pls nerf Theurgist
QQ - Zerker make more Damage, need Nerf
QQ - Airpets are stunlock me, please nerf = Done
QQ - Cleric Healbuff procs so often and heal too much, please nerf = Nearly Done, Tracker activated

holsten-knight wrote:

Skarz wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:still theurg has not many needed RA, so he can get pd 5 quite early. To kill a theurg in melee is so hard, quite all tank grps in mid went from "theurg first target" to "keep the theurg ruptet, it is impossible to kill him as first target"... if any caster does not need more defensive abilities it is the theurg

did anyone else laugh ?

only albs have a melee class that can deal such an imba dmg and ignore pd like a reaver u know

Make cloth classes more vulnerable to the mid tanktrain with cele, because PD makes a theurg immune to dmg since he has so much hp and armor... impossible to kill!
Ever tried to rupt him and kill a cleric first? Or, sounds weird for mids, but, ever tried to take a Rune with NS and aoe dmg (and nukes, who just ignore the pd) to just totally counter the typical Alb group set? Same for an Eld.

So amusing to see people cry for the theurg now and the overpoweredness of Albion.
If your high RR tank train doesn't roll over everything easily the system has to be broken.

Tsimshian wrote:

Harkon wrote:why should we? its kinda true - especially for hib offtanks with lower per hit damage, killing a pd theurg is nearly impossible, but hopefully the buged healproc will be fixed soon, so that the clerics have to heal at least sometimes

and to the zerker > merc thing, out of hib point of few:

I havent met a merc who does 800+ dmg hits without aog - and the possibility to get celerity - but i have met a zerker who does those hits on a regular basis - so, zerker might not have the slam, but for sure he has superior dps - at least vs hibs.

QQ - i cant kill a Theurgist with my Ruptbot BM within 10 seconds - pls nerf Theurgist
QQ - Zerker make more Damage, need Nerf
QQ - Airpets are stunlock me, please nerf = Done
QQ - Cleric Healbuff procs so often and heal too much, please nerf = Nearly Done, Tracker activated

The only one who is constantly QQing is you. All "nerfs" are well researched and valid bugs in which the players and the admins invested a considerate amount of time to research/fix it.