Proclamation for Keep Upgrading
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Yes, on paper, obviously. But you should consider the following as well: - are the guards really an issue? not really. defenders are. Unless of course you have crazy-strong guards. but then: - having to raid many keeps *before* attacking the relic means that the realm to be attacked gets plenty of warning and can set up their defenses. So the biggest issue is getting enough people mobilized to get through three gates and take down the lord whilst being attacked by defenders. The more defenders, the bigger your zerg has to be. And the zerg-size on uthard at any given time is severely limited, to a point where essentially any 3-4 groups can successfully defend the relic. So all you do is giving them enough time to get set up inside the relic. To put that into perspective, relic raids on live where 100++ man strong; on Uthgard you can be happy if you get 60. Anything else is a huge exception. /edit: and that is one of the core issues with the OF design. It was made for massive player zergs and did not allow for a lot of tactics. With NF they introduced things like tower control, propper upgrades, destructable walls and all that jazz to perhaps not have people rely on massive numbers alone. can't really remember relic raids in NF, but I think keep control opened the gate to the relic and allowed people to march in and take it, which is a lot more elegant than the oF way. But that's just me. Now I don't want to be all negative (critical tho!) - but while implementing the guard system is great for the server goal, I don't see it getting to the root issue of relic raids on Uthgard and why they don't play the role that they perhaps should.  |
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Well i dont agree to all your arguments lasa.
I think you really underestimate guards! They help defenders a lot...even when theres about 60+ attackers and you def with maybe 3 FG´s you weren´t able to defend without guards, trust me. @Blue thx for the preview! ps. maybe you should create a preview Sticky-Post, and show there the upcoming points on your schedules, people see you "do" something and are more happy! And dont whine that nothing changes (only because most time they dont SEE what get changed). Last edited by Xacrag on Oct 02, 2012 14:56, edited 1 time in total.
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nice RvR changes Inc, thumbs up for that
Ok i lack memories, but was there a keep lord within our patch level. I dont remember sth like that on live. So if guard fix comes, and relict lord is gone, that would be nice  Anyway i remember raiding keeps simultaniously (w/o killing guards but there was no msg like: your keep gate was destroyed), so the defending realm has less time to respond to a relict raid, since it is quiet obvious whats going on if 5fg raiding keep by keep Last edited by pweet on Oct 02, 2012 14:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Unless there will be any other differences other than the guards, I don't see the point. Either you will have to raid all keeps before attacking the relic, thus giving defenders plenty of time time to set up shop or your wipe on guards. Either will, it will be harder. Would be neat if the loss of all home keeps just opens the relic keep gates. Then there would be a real incentive to defend every single keep rather then camping the relic and hoping to use the stupid OF keep layout to bottleneck and wipe the attackers. |
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Nananan Lasa!
So for example you start an "Relic-Raid" with 6 group and every group get 1 Keep at the same time, the defenders haven´t as much time to come to defend cause they see it in that moment when 6 Keep´s changed to other realm. You have options, people aren´t stupid...well when they raid keep by keep by keep than they are stupid yes  !But there are some options, get only 3 Keeps, get 4, get 2 ....! Remember you have to claim then keep also(+upgrade),so other realms get more RPS when taking it but you dont wanna loose it cause you are afraid when they get to much Kepps they go for relic, also you have an Bonus on RP´s when killing Enemeys near your Keep! All these things together maybe help to create more and more action! |
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I gotta agree with Lasastard, the time Relic guards belonged to a time where you could throw 5+ fg's on relic keep, and have 3 fg's roaming taking keeps. This just can't be done with the current population.
Of course, it would mean relic raids would be a full day affair, starting early morning with constantly taking/holding keeps, and then later on the day, when your enemy has given up, you could hit Relic keep. Albion and having fun
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Why you always think you have to take keep by keep with 5-6 fgs?
Take all Keeps @ same time as i said! |
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Still not clear how it will be 'easier' to raid relics, or make it more straight-forward and thus more frequent (which should be the goal). If anything, you need to be a lot more coordinated, and as you say should have several groups that need to run independently and open keeps.
It's also pointless to construct complex scenarios involving 4, 5 or 6 FG and intricate raid-schedules - because that almost NEVER happens on Uthghard. So let's say there are no tough guards at the relic - that is essentially the same situation as we have it now. Only that it takes longer, more planning and possibly more people to get to that stage, no? |
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Well, while I agree it might actually increase the incentive to take relics. As it is now, there's some relics which are very hard to defend, due to port and travel distance (Alb pwr relics for example), by the time you reach the relic keep with a BG, the first 2 gates will be down. So this would make taking relics harder, but also make it easier to defend them. Albion and having fun
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Well....its like 100 other points you can see it from several sides...i think(i hope) when that change is upp it creates Action! But like always we can discuss this or we wait and afterwards we flame GM`s why they changed
 .Nah really i think its a change in a good side how much it will help i can´t say atm. Even the point what i mean(lets go away from relic raid) is, people/guilds maybe get more motivated to claim and upgrade their keeps cause they don´t wanna get their Relics Ninjad!---> And that helps for the Action atleast or am i wrong? |
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sry i did not read all of the last posts a litte short on time, so maybe someone already said something similar.
it will not get easier to raid relics, in fact it gets harder. But it gets a lot more tactic involved. Open every keep both gates, take the keeps all at the same time, then rush to the relic was one of the most used tactics, and a reason why most keeps were claimed, to get warned of these... we will get a problem here with the herald, which gives not livelike informations about keeps under attack... but for the near future this will not get a problem And to be honest the most successful tactic was still to raid late in the night when no enemies are awake, but then you would have to take some keeps first at least The real reason why relics play not the role they should is that they give 2% bonus per relic in midgard atm... let this be the livelike 10% per relic and every realm would struggle to get the relics |
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True! But that would outbalancing more and Relic-Realm-Hoppers would be massively annoying. |
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10% per enemy relic would just make the relic hopping much more worse.  [3:10pm] <myrmidon^> You have to be a c*** to be awesome at daoc
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> that's what I learnt [3:11pm] <Frosty_> then why does austerim suck
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The additional guards per keep should go hand in hand with this important change:
- no more realm wide message when a relic is under siege. Only the extra guards of a keep give a message to the guild that claimed the keep. This makes raiding the relic a LOT easier, if the other realm does not care to claim their keeps. Without a message no enemies show up = relic raid is super easy. But with this change it becomes very important to claim all your keeps and have active guilds claim. And you can for example raid just 3 keeps, engage the remaining extra guards at the relic to delay the message to the enemies... it all becomes a lot more tactical and fun... and livelike |
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Well i like that! |
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