Austerim wrote:

Arnooagi12 wrote:I recommend you go back and read the 2006 official Prima Guide to DAoC, or maybe wiki what Realm VS. Realm means, because clearly the concept and its complexity has over taken you. I'll give you a hint, organized 8v8 fights, chatting in IRC with your expected and known enemies, is not Realm VS. Realm, that is organized fighting/isolated RvR encounters.

And zerging a FG into logging off is RVR?

Runental wrote:Yes

Laughed at that, from someone that cried be zerged by ramboz for year

and?

I never sayd his playstyle is not an integral part of RvR

Krossfire wrote:

Austerim wrote:

Arnooagi12 wrote:I recommend you go back and read the 2006 official Prima Guide to DAoC, or maybe wiki what Realm VS. Realm means, because clearly the concept and its complexity has over taken you. I'll give you a hint, organized 8v8 fights, chatting in IRC with your expected and known enemies, is not Realm VS. Realm, that is organized fighting/isolated RvR encounters.

And zerging a FG into logging off is RVR?

and running around in a fg with rr9's and 10's vrs rr 4's = equal fights? you wiped one group.. then a second back to back... and so.. we did exactly what you did. and thats zerg. clearly your lack of understanding cannot fathom the concept of 8 vrs 8 isnt always fair fighting when your RR is so much higher. and tho we might not have such toys to play with, which comes from being high RR. we have friends. we also want to win a fight sometimes aswell. if we have to zerg because you guys form such elite groups that we simple pug americans cant defeat.. who is really to blame for making us zerg in the first place then?

i'll give you a hint, because i know how weak and close minded you are..... it isnt us.

there is a lot of truth is this post.

Krossfire wrote:what annoys me even more with people like this is after they beat Both groups back to back, i bet they were all like "Yea man we totally kicked their butt and stuff"

but tell me.. what then would happen if.. even tho we stood no chance, We didnt come back out, and we logged off? Would it not then be YOU who is doing the EXACT same thing you are complaining about?

but no, we didnt log. we did want RP's aswell, and we Took them in R v R

and a lot of truth here also.

top 8mans force people to log off or quit playing in Emain all the time and they think its fair. But if these low realm rank pugs that they love to farm zerg up and beat them its the most horrible thing that ever happened.

people like to win , that's human nature and if they cant win one way they will try another. you will never change this fact and all the complaining in the world wont help.

FG 10L vs 4L isnt zerggggh!!!!11one

Stop QQ!!

Anyway nice initiative

I dont think there is anything wrong with 1.5-2 fgs of low RR fighting a well established fg of high RR's in a set group. It makes perfect sense to me. However, I'm not for sure where Kross is getting his fg of RR10's unless he is talking about a different instance then what started the argument between him and Austerim. When Austerims group fought them I know for a fact that 75% of that group was under 6L0. So it wasnt like they were beating you guys because of RR. Then you guys came out with 2-3 fg's and killed em. Now yes, if you are out and see MB, DG, Requiem, or any of the other elite 8 man set groups then yes, I dont think there is anything wrong with trying to make the fight as fair as we can.

I would also like to point out that 2.5 years ago when I started on this server it was the Mids always QQ'ing about how Hibs and Albs were zerging everything and the Mid small man groups and solo's would get rolled over. Its funny how when its happening to you it gets a QQ but when doing it to others we all fall back on the "It's RvR not 8 vs 8..." or something similiar argument.

RonELuvv wrote:I dont think there is anything wrong with 1.5-2 fgs of low RR fighting a well established fg of high RR's in a set group. It makes perfect sense to me.

+1

the main problem about mids zerging is, they are not low RR pugs zerging, its (most of the time) Drachengarde with a RR 9++ grp and a second and THATS the boring thing. If we run with a decent guild grp, its really nice to fight against a 12-16man pug zerg but with 8 high RR ppl its just boring like hell.

you see, i can make enemies log off with an rr11 8vs8 grp as well as with a zerg... i am mighty

but seriously... its a game, log off whenever you want to, play the game as you like to play it.

RonELuvv wrote: Then you guys came out with 2-3 fg's and killed em. Now yes, if you are out and see MB, DG, Requiem, or any of the other elite 8 man set groups then yes, I dont think there is anything wrong with trying to make the fight as fair as we can.

And tbh, we dont' have any problem with that. The Blutrausch Zerg or whatever we gladly take on, makes for interesting fights if they keep it at 1,5-2FG. This I consider evening the odds. The problem starts if a group like DG with 6+ rr11 start zerging or adding the 16 Slots fighting a strong guild group. That is not helping the realm, that is ****** enemies off to a point where the log out our counter zerg with 2 8-men, and that usually doesn't end in interesting fights for either side.

Whatever happened to the PUG RvR in Odins? Seemed like a nice way for 'random' players to find some nice fights.

The pug rvr in odins has kind of slowed down due to summer and less people online right now.

Krossfire wrote:

Austerim wrote:

Arnooagi12 wrote:I recommend you go back and read the 2006 official Prima Guide to DAoC, or maybe wiki what Realm VS. Realm means, because clearly the concept and its complexity has over taken you. I'll give you a hint, organized 8v8 fights, chatting in IRC with your expected and known enemies, is not Realm VS. Realm, that is organized fighting/isolated RvR encounters.

And zerging a FG into logging off is RVR?

and running around in a fg with rr9's and 10's vrs rr 4's = equal fights? you wiped one group.. then a second back to back... and so.. we did exactly what you did. and thats zerg. clearly your lack of understanding cannot fathom the concept of 8 vrs 8 isnt always fair fighting when your RR is so much higher. and tho we might not have such toys to play with, which comes from being high RR. we have friends. we also want to win a fight sometimes aswell. if we have to zerg because you guys form such elite groups that we simple pug americans cant defeat.. who is really to blame for making us zerg in the first place then?

i'll give you a hint, because i know how weak and close minded you are..... it isnt us.

So where on the fence does this put you when I seen you 6 vs 1 Stonedome the other night? I guess that gives him the right to put together a 3 fg zerg to come kill your 6 man? Also, as I mentioned earlier Kross, what RR9 and 10's are you referring to here? They might have had 1 higher RR player but the rest were all well below 7L0 and most were under 6L0. Not exactly the high RR group you painted them out to be.

RonELuvv wrote:So where on the fence does this put you when I seen you 6 vs 1 Stonedome the other night? I guess that gives him the right to put together a 3 fg zerg to come kill your 6 man? Also, as I mentioned earlier Kross, what RR9 and 10's are you referring to here? They might have had 1 higher RR player but the rest were all well below 7L0 and most were under 6L0. Not exactly the high RR group you painted them out to be.

I don't think Kross literally meant a FG of RR10's ^^. But, in his defense, Soxx / Stonedome and some other RR8+ Druids i have seen (dont remember their names) are typically very hard for any of the pug mid groups I am ever in or see fighting.

Also, what Kross is hinting more at is the fact that on Midgard our pug groups are not ever as well coordinated as the hib groups it seems, especially due to the fact that we cant just grab a bard and a druid and then head out with whatever 6 other classes we want, which is what frustrates me personally about Midgard is how hard it is to get a balanced group going compared to Hibernia or Alb. So, we often have a hard time if you compare a Mid pug vs a Hib Pug, and sometimes Alb pugs (of which I hardly see).

Do you know how hard it is to find a Healer on Midgard at USA times? What about a Skald? They are soo hard to find.

In order to have what a bard has we need a skald + Shaman or Healer, in order for slam we need a Warrior/Thane, not our main dps zerker, unlike hib. I wont go on about this, but this is an unfortunate imbalance across the realms that frustrates me. Generally, just the ease variance across the realms in forming competitive RvR grps.

Maybe to be discussed a later day? ^^

Arnooagi12 wrote:
Do you know how hard it is to find a Healer on Midgard at USA times? What about a Skald? They are soo hard to find.

In order to have what a bard has we need a skald + Shaman or Healer, in order for slam we need a Warrior/Thane, not our main dps zerker, unlike hib. I wont go on about this, but this is an unfortunate imbalance across the realms that frustrates me. Generally, just the ease variance across the realms in forming competitive RvR grps.

Maybe to be discussed a later day? ^^

I don't think it will be any easier to find a good bard on hib, tbh. And to say that mid has it oh so hard to build a competitive group is, well...^^^^

Try playing alb. 2 clerics, sorc, theurgist, paladin, maybe minstrel...those are your must-haves, and you complain about 2 healers and a shaman (there are and have been groups on Uth that did well without a skald btw - it really only gives you SoS as a critical RA and that is not really all that needed in tank-heavy setups).

And in Hib your need 2 druids - so that's three chars; and that setup lacks inst stuns, only has one demezzer, no ichor, no disease, no celerity, no energy/spirit/body resists.

/edit: The point of this is not to list all the features on realm has access to , but rather to make you think not about what the other guys have, but what your realm and your group has access to and how that can be used to your advantage. The thing you are complaining about is exactly what keeps DAoCs RvR interesting after < 10 years on the market. For fully equivalent 'teams', see WAR, WoW and even GW2.

in general i prefer 8v8 too, as it's much more "skill-based" and not so much luck as to who's got more ppl and stuff...right now i prefer solo-play as my on-time is very irregular and i might have to force-ld all the time due to my RL-situation...

BUT: if you guys really wanna do 8v8, why don't u all go some remote spot, that nobody knows? u can say in irc (via pm so no1 else will know) - "we're roaming uppland for 20 mins then going 20 mins to snowdonia"...and if u only tell ppl u know make and prefer 8v8 as well 8v8 will happen where YOU want it to be...

the best thing:
- solo-players wont be killed by all those 8v8-grps in emain, only by the zerging ones
- pug-grps will have an easier life, as they won't be killed all the time when meeting 8v8 with the elite-grps
- 8v8-players wont be zerged by all the zerging players...ofc zergs may see killspam and think "omg lets go uppland"...but they will take some time and then you'll be in next zone already)

dunno if that really violates the "no planned duels"-rule, as u merely tell them where to find u...and not even very exactly...besides no1 can proof u having said any such thing...and its no rp-farming either, as u wont lose deliberately...

its just an idea and i'm sure 8v8-players will not do that anyway, as they might risk not having any inc at all (if they win 8v16 they dont complain about zerg oh wonder!), but its a solution approach rather then just crying "omg u zerg, u bad!"...

start changing things instead of just complaining...