thats my far the utmost idiotic statement ever. i guess you know the flaw in your statement. and again, your final statement just aims at some redesign reward. i would be happy to hear your suggestion, how to improve rvr participation. or do you go along with blue, thinking that the statistical numbers prove that there is enough action? or just make a clear statement, that you are not interested in improving the situation. that would be fine as well. but destroying suggestions by telling people it will be available in pve withouth suggesting alternative solution is just a poor way to end discussions.

Of coarse not every one will be able to get it, becuase they dont put the time to be out in emain and RvR. Like not every one will get SI gear becuase they wont put the effort to get it. Just like in life there will be losers and winners and its usally based on who commits to something and those who dont.

How would any of such idea improve RvR? Its not about some unreachable reward. Its about having a chance to kill some enemies and not be the victim 100% of the time.

Problems remain the same even if you offer fancy rewards.

_Oglop_ wrote:The incoming SI items are going to devalue my Epic Reskinned Vest!

It's not fair! I won that at an Xmas Event last year.

I lost my uba Cloak witch i won in a 1on1 event years ago

Thats also not fair, because it had 5 resists + 11% !

Blue wrote:How would any of such idea improve RvR? Its not about some unreachable reward. Its about having a chance to kill some enemies and not be the victim 100% of the time.

Will what is unreachable? I havent heard any suggestions on prices. To be fair this will be unreachable to some people. Because they wont invest the time, and effort to be effective in RvR. However for some people RvR doesnt intrest them that much, Etc. So they wont get it. Just like people that want to RvR only and not PvE they wont be able to get the SI gear. Seems pretty fair.

Yes RvR is to kill people but there should be rewards for it to encourge people. Like the RP bonus that you put in your self to help get more action in RvR.

Blue wrote:Problems remain the same even if you offer fancy rewards.

Yes that is true, there will never be a perfect server to make every one happy. But this will help raise the population for RvR.

I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

Blue wrote:I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

Yes I am sure that will happen, but putting in a system like this can help stop that pattern from repeating. Its not going to keep every one in RvR, but some it will. This is just a creative idea that does not effect the game in anyway and does not give people any advantage just something to help encourge more RvR.

Blue wrote:How would any of such idea improve RvR? Its not about some unreachable reward. Its about having a chance to kill some enemies and not be the victim 100% of the time.

Problems remain the same even if you offer fancy rewards.

That

I've already suggested some thing to avoid this "critical endgame rvr situation", but i dont know if the staff is interested on find a solution of this disease that is lowering rvr population (especially it cant grow up..).

What i've suggested?
- More rvr variance, to give a chance to "Play and have fun" to all kind of players

How can do it?
Well, it's not easy but possible:
There are zones for end game fg vs fg like Emain.
There are hot zones for stealthers war Amg/mmg.

And who dont have a fg? or isnt' a stealther? Cant do anything, or just get bored after 1 hour spamming Lfg or chain release vs gank/guild of enemy in end game rvr.
Last chance for the most "motivated" is to make group task....... but hey, how fun are them? Better tajendi at this point. And cya rvr.

So, an "idea" (like the title of this thread) was to make more importants the frontier keeps, spreading the action on all zones (not only at amg..) and give a change on bad setup groups or just small ranks pugs to fight each other where the end game ganks shouldnt be, but also make some experience of rvr.

And a way to make that, is to add missions for groups to conquer a specific keep random, before XX mins, and an opposed mission for the realm owner of this keep to defend the keep for XX mins.
Giving some bonus or rps for combat near keeps will also make ppl more interested to do always both side of the "mission" (defend), and make xping ppl happy for the continue change of DF (so all realm will have df, and not stucked on 1 realm since days..)

So, end game groups will continue fight each others on emain, stealther will continue fight at hot spots like amg (and who knows, maybe helping who attack keeps climbing walls!), and small man or low rr pugs will get involved on keeps mission untill they can go to endgame rvr ^^

I think that this could revive a lost key part of daoc rvr, and make more happy a lot of players that would love partecipate to rvr too..

EDIT:

Blue wrote:I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

Yes, that is horribly true.. bonus rps will help who get rps, not who dont, so who will die 7/10 will get only a small improvement, and still 0 fun. That's why i suggested this idea up ^

i think your thinking the wrong way blue. we dont want these people / pver's to compete in 8vs8. i would be perfectly fine if they try to run as an 16 slot, maybe realm events will form like dragonraids, just to gain these rewards. like the zerg event last time, maybe just in a smaller extend. and if i could fight some "random" 16 slot, that fight would be still challenging for both sides, and its realistisc for them to win.

also, these people can run smallman during non-pt hours. they can always win by pure numbers. which is totally fine and even wanted by you (issnt it? epic fights and stuff?).

why do you think these people dont have a chance? no one expects them to participate in 8vs8. they can just team up and try to get their rewards to buy fancy glowing weapons

please explain your attitude.

(oh and if u think that everyone should be able to beat everyone in 8vs8 - thats nonsense, better players will always win in a skill-based game, otherwise youll lead the game ad adsurdum. daoc was always skill-based)

Blue wrote:I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

Most probably . However, I do think people on this server should have a bit easier access to legendary weapons or custom dyes . Believe it or not, lot of people only have tajendi items cause of nice skins. Tbh, I would be the first to sell all my tajendi items if I could get a legendary MP weapon. In my opinion, it's only a cosmetic change, it does not affect RvR, it's not unbalanced or anything like that, it does not kill the spirit of this game...just makes a player a bit happier in his/her own skin . Also, BP rewards are not the way to go(at least in my opinion). If you need fancy thingies to encourage someone to RvR, that does not mean he loves or enjoys RvR, just that he wants the stuff. Also, lot of people like to rage after one time they get rolled over, which is lame. That's when rerolling happens xD. I got a guy in my guild who is an awesome player, but if not in good group he quits and goes to play another realm or Eden.

For effective and attractive RvR we need a bit more balance, we need some good manners(more players who enjoy fair fights or a challenge, less RPS whores who will kill anything, even lvl 37 group leveling in a frontier dungeon), we need to make a player friendly surrounding that allows each type of player or any class to enjoy the game to the fullest. Btw, I don't mean fair fights like strict 8v8 or 1v1 mentality, but being a mindless zerger or an RPS whore is also not the answer .

The idea that cosmetic changes that don't affect balance are desired is heard. I am not convinced this is the right approach to increase RVR though.

Well, the point and idea have been made. The GM's have heard it and have responded and allthough I differ in oppinion about whether it would have an effect or not I at least appreciate the response. I understand the comments by the GM's.

They are essentially saying the problem is at the core that players dont RvR because of numerous issues (no success, hard to find groups, dont want to roll a stealther, lack of action, etc..) and that this change would in their minds not fix any of those issues. I agree, that it would not fix most of those problems, but that is why the GM's are making the changes they are. To fix some of these problems. As another pointed out earlier, we dont know when these changes will be done. It may take a few months, or over a year.

I cant argue against that, but I do stand behind my original statement that if you offer a cosmetic reward for participation in RvR activities that it will indeed bring more people into RvR. This is not an assumption, it is a fact. How many or how much this truly fixxes the problem is unknown and always will be unless we ever decided to try it out.

Thank you for the response and at least consideration. Much appreciated.

Blue wrote:I doubt it tbh. Players who see no chance to compete will stay in bg's or reroll (a stealther)

lemmie give you some more food for thought here:

yday an alb group was logging. quote: "either there is no action or we cant handle the groups out. since you wont merge with us, we will just call it a day".

now, this group was not competetive at all, but wassnt able to form a 16 slot either. simply because of the lack of players! give these people some more players to base a battlegroup on, and these people may just have develop soemthing as fun in rvr. lets face it - they arent any random pugs running. its all guild/setgroups. noone can compete here if they dont team up. but u havent considered this thought yet enough i think!

@ abydos: it is at least SOME approach to increase rvr. all your approaches in the past have decreased rvr action. of course there are better points to start from, they can be read all over the forum - old ras for instance, that would actually help non competetive groups to be more competetive overall (that means, u might lose a fight due to ras of a higher rr group, on the other side, they are now down for 30minutes. instead of losing twice, u might just win on the second attempt). but thats another topic!

the reward idea is imho a nice approach to at least try to improve rvr participation. i believe to add some glowing effects and make them available by joining rvr is simple and probably will help a little bit. we are not talking big numbers. but just 1 more group that can team up with the other group that constantly would get farmed would be simply nice.

RonELuvv wrote:I cant argue against that, but I do stand behind my original statement that if you offer a cosmetic reward for participation in RvR activities that it will indeed bring more people into RvR. This is not an assumption, it is a fact. How many or how much this truly fixxes the problem is unknown and always will be unless we ever decided to try it out.

I completely agree - especially with the 'fact'! - and want to repeat:
Since it would be only a cosmetical benefit for the players, it could not harm the economy (provided it's not tradeable) and i can see no negative sideeffects. So i'd say: just give it a shot.

Cosmetical benefits have a worth. That can be seriously high. Its nothing a casual gamer can reach easily. There will be no easy reachable reskins.