Still waiting for Hunters to be fixed

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shade
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Postby shade » Mar 21, 2012 16:09

Cjasca wrote:there are many many more mosbots...u just dont notice them...( cuz they are on your side maybe? ) :wall:


No, it's because I avoid amg :D And still, there are not too many RR11 mosbots that rely on their buddys to kill their "prey". :)
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Runental
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Postby Runental » Mar 21, 2012 16:56

shade wrote:No, it's because I avoid amg :D

LIE!

Ok, was non peaktime 3 days ago <3 :)
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shade
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Postby shade » Mar 21, 2012 17:55

Yeah and I was on the phone**... at some point i realized I was at amg :)




**I really should stop playing and doing phone calls at the same time. Usually it's annoying for both the dialogue partner ("Hello - you still there?" ... "Ah, yeah, sure, go on... :)") and in-game results :D
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Seyha
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Postby Seyha » May 15, 2012 09:05

The Hunter class has two major disadvantages unique to Uthgard:

1. Lack of a defense penetration mechanic. This hurts both the Hunter and the Scout by increasing the defense of their common enemies relative to their own defense. The Hunter and Ranger each have Evade III, but in a 1v1 fight the Ranger will evade 2x as often as the Hunter due to the imbalance created by this missing mechanic. I have written entire essays explaining why this problem merits a custom fix, since a live-like defense formula is likely IMPOSSIBLE to develop. We have known about this problem for YEARS and nothing has been done.

2. Incorrect mob damage. The Hunter, more than any other pet class, suffers for Uthgard's low mob damage. I found combat logs from 2003 showing the Hunter pet dealing 60-70 damage to a full-buffed and templated level 50 Ranger. Increasing Hunter pet damage by 200% would not only help the Hunter in melee. It would make the Hunter the supreme kiting archer. Imagine: the Hunter actually being the best at something, as opposed to being an ultra-gimped version of the Ranger.
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Blue
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Postby Blue » May 15, 2012 12:35

Your two points are absolutely valid and have heavy weight on overall server balance. Also buffs / debuffs on mobs nearly non-effective factors into the problem of low damage. Its still in the upper priorities.

I would estimate progress of the damage fixes at 85% but there is one missing peace that blocked the implementation.
It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
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Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard"
Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand"

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Magicco
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Postby Magicco » May 15, 2012 12:43

Blue wrote:I would estimate progress of the damage fixes at 85% but there is one missing peace that blocked the implementation.


maybe tell us what and the community will help you ;)

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Postby Blue » May 15, 2012 12:46

Magicco wrote:
Blue wrote:I would estimate progress of the damage fixes at 85% but there is one missing peace that blocked the implementation.


maybe tell us what and the community will help you ;)

I have noticed that missrate influences damage. Thats a big factor for damage against boss mobs and attacker count. If I would change damage right now I guess a lot of boss mobs would be too hard or too easy depending how large that missrate modulation factor (by changing attacker count) gets. Not sure if there can be help or interest in researching this. I've also noticed that Mythic makes a huge difference in Mobs >= level 70. It even seems that they switch some formulas.
Oh and then there is that oddity that pet vs mob has different damage as pet vs player if everything is brought into equation. It seems that pet vs mob does 10% less damage than pet vs player which does not fit right.

Thats the internal story ;)
It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later.

"It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something
is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure."


Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard"
Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand"

[Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????"
BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

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Orihiime
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Postby Orihiime » May 15, 2012 14:46

Blue wrote:
Magicco wrote:
Blue wrote:I would estimate progress of the damage fixes at 85% but there is one missing peace that blocked the implementation.


maybe tell us what and the community will help you ;)

I have noticed that missrate influences damage. Thats a big factor for damage against boss mobs and attacker count. If I would change damage right now I guess a lot of boss mobs would be too hard or too easy depending how large that missrate modulation factor (by changing attacker count) gets. Not sure if there can be help or interest in researching this. I've also noticed that Mythic makes a huge difference in Mobs >= level 70. It even seems that they switch some formulas.
Oh and then there is that oddity that pet vs mob has different damage as pet vs player if everything is brought into equation. It seems that pet vs mob does 10% less damage than pet vs player which does not fit right.

Thats the internal story ;)

And what about defense penetration
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Blue
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Postby Blue » May 15, 2012 15:25

Orihiime wrote:And what about defense penetration

What about it? Theres a thread in Research forum about this. Progress there seems stalled.
It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later.

"It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something
is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure."


Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard"
Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand"

[Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????"
BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

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borog
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Postby borog » May 15, 2012 16:20

I know you advocate "do it once and do it right" but would it not be preferable and take a leaf out of other mmo publishers books and provide small tweaks to improve overall game play?

Can you not increase the Mob damage based on the projected formulas you have now and then apply the final boss mob fixes when the problem has been identified?

Having to wait for the once fix to rule them all is what is causing people to lose faith.

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Fabulabelle
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Postby Fabulabelle » May 15, 2012 17:00

borog wrote:I know you advocate "do it once and do it right" but would it not be preferable and take a leaf out of other mmo publishers books and provide small tweaks to improve overall game play?

Can you not increase the Mob damage based on the projected formulas you have now and then apply the final boss mob fixes when the problem has been identified?

Having to wait for the once fix to rule them all is what is causing people to lose faith.


Sometimes it's better to do quality instead of quantity ^^ i'm pretty sure that if they process like you are suggesting, there will be many more QQ.
btw, it's good to know that the system is studed and on the way to be fixed ;)

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Blue
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Postby Blue » May 15, 2012 19:13

borog wrote:but would it not be preferable and take a leaf out of other mmo publishers books and provide small tweaks to improve overall game play?

Can you not increase the Mob damage based on the projected formulas you have now and then apply the final boss mob fixes when the problem has been identified?

Honestly I would but this is Uthgard and changing things on a customized base will always get a lot of QQ where the changes can't be defended by pointing to research results. Changing the game by guesses or free will opens Pandora's box so to say ;)
It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later.

"It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something
is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure."


Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard"
Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand"

[Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????"
BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..."

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Skarz
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Postby Skarz » May 17, 2012 12:07

LMFAO rlllllllly u think its not to late for that ? :D taj1 taj2, modified drop rates and respawns on classic mobs, other class already have fix's and tweaks, explain how rangers buff value is 125% and hunters are 75%. 2h dmg dnt work proberly. the only 2 fix's to make a hunter playable needed.

open your eyes stop changing stuff people already find acceptable and mybe focus on fixing the things that players on ur server find an annoyance on a daily basis. same thread on forums day after day, same problems, same whine, start there.

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Trishin
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Postby Trishin » May 17, 2012 12:40

Skarz wrote:LMFAO rlllllllly u think its not to late for that ? :D taj1 taj2, modified drop rates and respawns on classic mobs, other class already have fix's and tweaks, explain how rangers buff value is 125% and hunters are 75%. 2h dmg dnt work proberly. the only 2 fix's to make a hunter playable needed.

open your eyes stop changing stuff people already find acceptable and mybe focus on fixing the things that players on ur server find an annoyance on a daily basis. same thread on forums day after day, same problems, same whine, start there.


Blue has 99,99% whine resistance.

By the way, I don't believe hunters have 75% value buffs and rangers have 125%? I would like to see a bugreport on this issue if this is the case.
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Caemma
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Postby Caemma » May 17, 2012 14:50

Fabulabelle wrote:Sometimes it's better to do quality instead of quantity ^^ i'm pretty sure that if they process like you are suggesting, there will be many more QQ.

And sometimes not..

That's why:
borog wrote:Having to wait for the once fix to rule them all is what is causing people to lose faith.


And that is what is going to be here

There are lot of things that can improve the "uthgard experience", but start from things that really help to revive the gameplay instead of move some mobs or enchantment prices :p
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