The TRUE state of RvR on Uthgard
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Yes I hold on to those two statements with which he contradicted himself. I mean it's understandable that people with lack of attention contradict themselves in the same post when that post is a huge wall of text, but he did it 2 lines below his original statement so it caught my eye, sue me for pointing out the obvious.
My mental state is none of your business, but I like how you present yourself as a world class psychologist who decides that people are mentally ill by reading their forum posts. Judging by your english comprehension and writing skills tho, I would sooner say that it's just a defensive mechanism that you use when you don't understand something. And yes, I am an evil mastermind with a secret agenda, you got me, hands down to you sir. I am completely guilty of wanting to play daoc with functioning RvR.
Nothing is different except population. Also RvR system was so awesome on live that they decided to change the whole system. WOW HOW DUMB WERE THEY??? I AM WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE I AM ANGRY AND YELLING AT MY MONITOR USUALLY ENDS DISCUSSIONS IN MY FAVOR.
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Hmmm, how long have you played here for Bloodwyne? For you and Bawww to take anything I post and saying how it show's that I dont know what I'm talking about, you have alot of balls making a comment like that. It is posted EVERYWHERE, that this is Blues server trying to emulate what his version of Classic was pre ToA. Yes, we have all pointed out that it is not true "classic" but Uthgard 2012 is based on live pre ToA. So now that we have that clear, I will ask again, what is different between Uthgard Frontiers and Live Frontiers from the current patch settings? If it worked on live, which according to all of you was the best thing ever, then why does it not work here? Besides the RA problem, which is being addressed, the only other difference is population. How do you get more people out to RvR as a PLAYER AND NOT A GM? You encourage people to come out and lead by example. That is all we can do. You guys can claim I dont know what I'm talking about all you want, but so far your rants and posts on the forums have got you nowhere on changes. Last edited by RonELuvv on Dec 06, 2011 00:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Lol, I liked that last post Bawwww, lets take it down a notch tho. I do like having debates and I think this is a good one to have.
Also, I could not agree more with you on your statement about "the RvR system was so awesome on live that they decided to change the whole system." However, once again, this is not our server. We just play here. Blue made this, and he does not want New frontiers. He doesnt want New RA's. Me and you showing how and why these things need to happen will not work. This is what we have to play with, and there are other servers that use the new RA system instead of classic, but they have nobody on them either. So lets not act like a change back to New frontiers will be a magical fix. Long story short, the system is what it is. If you think that posting over and over again these things that you think will make the server better you are just going to get more and more frustrated. The thing I personally find frustrating, is the people that constantly trash on these forums a great free server. For people that are new to RvR and new to the server that read these type of posts, I'm sure these dont help encrouage them to come out. |
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Oh bitter irony. It is the state of RvR on Uthgard that puts most players off. If end RvR would be attractive enough to make at least half of the new players stay compared to maybe a meager 10-20% (surely it can't be much more, new players join Uthgard every day, yet new RvR players are seldomly staying around long enough for people that RvR regularly to notice them), Uthgard would have been having to increase the population cap and probably the hardware capacity with it. Think about that for a change, instead of claiming things would be better with more players. Even if we hit 1,5k players for some magical reason, the trend will not change and the situation will be as poorly as it is now. @RonELuvv: Maybe you should pose a question a bit more distinguished before going all capslock on our asses. If you really want the answer I'll try to give you one... Different? Let's see: - Population: 3,000 vs 900 - BGs: 15-35 vs 30ish-49 - Old RAs vs New RAs. - The game was new to everyone. People started on equal footing when it came to general game and metagame knowledge. Most remaining in the state of not knowing for years, proving easier targets to those who did get to know a substantial amount of vital knowledge. ==> The "elite" was a natural minority, not a majority as it is on Uthgard. ==> Many players RvRed because they had ****** of fun doing so, regardless of the RP or XP reward and their own objective chances of beating their opponent (level, gear). The experience was fresh, new and exciting. A factor that has completely vanished over the years of DAoC's existance. (which explains why a lot of players here frown deeply when it comes to repeating mistakes that have become clear over the years. The mindset is vastly different now as it was back in the Classic times, the time Uthgard is struggling to revive.) That's all I can think of now that matters to an extent. The most important factor is though that back then, casuals had other casuals to fight, instead of getting raped by "elitists" 24/7. This is the most important, ignored and avoided difference Uthgard has from live. The only way to deal with it is to A) accept that the players and their knowledge of the game has evolved B) act accordingly to maintain the Spirit of Classic DAoC, yet avoid the mistakes that make Classic DAoC fail today. In other words, take custom measures to make the Uthgard experience resemble the vibe of Classic DAoC, rather than a copy of what was a flawed first attempt at making the best PvP (RvR) game ever. In defense of truth-to-experience.
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Zark, these are the posts that I enjoy reading from you. You get to the point and its a very good post. All the stuff you put before it was answering my question directly, and I would agree with most of it. The population was one that everyone can point to as a problem, but not one we have much control over. The BG's is one you have posted many times on here, and I will admit the the logic behind it does make sense, but I will admit that I HATED BG's on live because of the level range. Alltho it did make a person want to go out and do big boy RvR. Old RA's vs New RA's was also pointed out, and it was acknowledged by Blue himself as a problem they are working on. I know, its taking forever, but it is being worked on so we can check that one off. All the other stuff you mentioned is right, but it is as much about things being new as having the proper attitude. The comment about the "elite" being a minority on live is right to a degree, but only because there was so many people playing. The "elite" on live outnumbered the "elite" on Uthgard by a ton, but when you have so many more casuals to play they kind of get drowned out. I guess ratio wise the "elite" on Uthgard are a greater voice for RvR the on live. When I first started doing RvR I grouped up as a stealther all the time and added in every fight that I could, because that was honestly the way we played on Iseult on Live. It wasnt until I got the 300th nasty PM in game that I realised that this server does not have the same mind set. Like you said, the player base has evolved over time and made the game alot more difficult for new players. However, the only way those new players will get bettter in RvR is by going out and learning. Even playing an OP'd class that I played on live for 2-3 years it took me a long time on this server to start doing well. Last edited by RonELuvv on Dec 06, 2011 01:01, edited 3 times in total.
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** Sorry about the cap's on occasion- I do it to emphasize a statement or word, not out of frustration.
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ok bawww first fish got the bait... i wasnt refering to you personally on that hole paragraph but in a team of persons that do only bad to the server and offer nothing else than their negative spirit on everything.
I am opposing to all you behavior becouse it just solve nothing. And if you think that you can insult someonefor his english .. think again ... its not my mother language so its normal that its not perfect. And yes i think that you are simple minded and look only in 1 direction and not all directions. Thats my opinion . |
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You speak english better then I speak any other language besides english
 3 years of German in highschool and all I can say is things like: Der haus is blau. Das hund is rot. Every once in awhile when I'm grouped with German players I will throw out the occaisonal: Meine schlange ist lange. That one always made us in laugh in class. Nothing like being dirty with perfectly clean words. |
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And again you misunderstood what I said. The only one insulting around here is you. What does "look only in 1 direction and not all directions" even mean? @RonELuvv I think Zarkor covered most of it. What I would like to stress out to you again is that getting those people who don't rvr to rvr is not the responsibility of players. Your, mine or any other players example will not get them to RvR. They have systematically refused to RvR in the frontiers for years, you setting an "example" will not get them to RvR. Players can not, and should not be expected to, get those people to RvR. So like I already said, that is the responsibility of the staff who have to either get those people to RvR by giving them some inscentive, or adjust the RvR system according to the actual RvR population (like every freeshard with old frontiers did). Unless staff doesn't want to make RvR better (which is not true according to the announcements), but then what is the point? And please, stop repeating that it is Blue's server and that he does with it what he wants everyone knows that, no one is holding a gun to his head to make changes he doesn't want to make.
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I'm glad you're getting closer to realising what is wrong with our current situation. However, your conclusion as to a solution requires a leap of faith that is beyond reality. If more people would RvR, the problem of a majority of "elitists" would fade away and things would turn healthy yet again... In theory this may sound correct, but in reality it will never happen without a change in the setting that marks Uthgard endRvR. The core of the problem is that a majority of elites dictate the tone for every other player. Be it a Zubasa or a lvl 42 random in DF gear. Both of them will have to bring out their very best, in every aspect, to stand a chance against what is already out there because there are no other enemies to stand a chance against without doing so. So, if more players would come to RvR, they would all be forced to match the current level of optimised playstyle or drown in discouragement and frustration due to stacking up losses and thus waste of time over and over again. Our current situation does not allow for casuals to play the game casually, it punishes them for it and it is only those who are willing to give up their way of RvRing, trading it for the optimised playstyle, that manage to make their time in end RvR remotely worthwhile in the long run. Every single player who does not intend to spend that much time and effort into changing the way they enjoy playing a game will chose more satisfactionary ways to spend their free time. For good fcking reason. The situation on Uthgard has dragged on for so long now that most players left to play end RvR regularly have their ways of securing their fun, with most of them reaching Realm Ranks easily over RR8, further increasing the polarisation. It is because the situation is so dire, that actions need to be equally drastic. In my opinion, the only way to turn this situation around would be to overhaul the setting in such a way that all the known flaws are addressed and the necessary precautions taken so that the situation may yet again restore itself. Yes, restore itself, so that it is not the players forcing themselves to enjoy something they do not, but the players being attracted to something that is highly enjoyable. There has to be a turnaround so vast that the current elite is overwhelmed by a critical mass of "casual" -meaning non optimised- players in such a way that these new players have the opportunity to fight enemies on equal terms. Preferably more often than having to seek for measures to combat far stronger opponents, since that situation is the healthiest DAoC has ever seen. In other words, that is how Classic DAoC is remembered. In defense of truth-to-experience.
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OH this discussion again - eventho we know that the GMs will not change anything ^^
For what it's worth - I think the problem with RvR on Uthgard is two-fold, more or less. 1) Time moves on This has two consequences - a) veteran players will more often than not want to play competitively to keep the game fresh and challenging, b) the mindset that created the RvR in the old days is gone (ok, these two points sort of depend on each other). People went out in zergs and took keeps because it was fun for them to do so and noone had figured out other ways to play the game. While a more casual 'zerg' RvR could theoretically exist on Uthgard, it lacks a few leading figures to organize it and keep it going. And this is partially because zerg is pretty boring without anything to drive it (see below). 2) Lack of incentive Why would anyone want to zerg? I think we can agree that running in a zerg is generally not very demanding and will get boring quickly. Unless - there is something interesting to do for a zerg. Most simply, this would be fighting other zergs. But there is no zerg to fight if no zergs form, and zergs dont form without zergs to fight - a bit of a circular argument, I guess. Other reasons for zergs to form would be relic- or keep raids, maybe even RvR-type events. Now, since raiding a relic has little benefit for the non-competitive crowd, I can see how it is not very motivating to go through the trouble on a regular basis. And Blue et al. have stated that they won't be thinking about other ways to bring out the non 8vs8 players. I guess the assumption is that this will happen eventually (or not, whatever). I believe that this is wishful thinking, because you can not re-create the mindset, even if you manage to reverse engineer all the conditions of vanilla DAoC. Instead, they should be thinking about their own solution to bring the masses into the RvR zones - but I have yet to see any signs of that happening.  |
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First of all, the "we just need zerg leaders and its fixed" has been refuted before. You can not solve a problem by demanding players to spend their time doing something that just isn't fun! It doesn't work! It's barely a tiny patch on a wound that needs proper stitching... Also, it has got nothing to do with "reverse engineering the conditions of vanilla DAoC", whatever that may be exactly.  It's about analysing the cause of Uthgard's problem and acting according to it in order to solve it fundamentally, just as you would tackle any problem if you intend to do so seriously. The fact that you claim they should "be thinking about their own solution" baffles me. As if anything the community says is wrong because it comes from the community and "solutions" only are legitimate if they're invented purely by the staff. In other words, every solution the community mentions gets scrapped as a viable option because it didn't come from the right person. What the f*ck dude? In defense of truth-to-experience.
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if you would come out in emain.. you can easily see its not dead.. wth?!?
- Honey Badgers
- Winkz |
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Stop blabla ! Go RvR
 Speak here Uthgard never change, it is so. This is the harsh reality of RvR and what makes it so unique. |
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I’m one of these elusive people you’re asking about, I have 3 characters in their mid 40s and I’m in no rush to get to 50. I dislike PvE and I’d say I spend the majority of my time doing RvR, but it’s all in the battlegrounds.
I’ve been to emain once with my wife, we were xping in the hib frontiers and decided to suicide in emain rather than run back. We made it past AMG so went to suicide on APK and an inf unstealthed and ran after us. We turned round to fight him and he hid again, at which point he got popped by a ranger and we ran up to kill him. We were genuinely excited, it was our first experience in ‘proper’ RvR. The inf died and I sent the ranger a message saying ‘thanks for saving us’ and I got a reply saying ‘fu, leechers’. You think I’m going to grind to 50, farm loads of plat so I can get a decent template, drag my sorry ass to RR5+ to be competitive – just so I can spend more time around people like that? I’d rather put that time into re-rolling another class and playing it in the battlegrounds where the notion of RvR (rather than 8v8 or 1v1) seems to still exist. Now I’m sure there are many things the staff could do to improve RvR, I’ve not been around long enough to really comment – but you’re kidding yourself if you think that is the only reason that Uthgard is how it is. |
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