Braxis wrote:
Since labels seem to confuze you all, how about we just call every other hybrid a unique tank and give them det acess and be done with it?

if by that you mean access to NF equivalent det in OF at OF cost, then ya, I think most people would agree on that. the chances of staff implementing are small I would guess.

I'd put the chance of hybrids getting full OF det at -0- but who knows

Since labels seem to confuze you all, how about we just call every other hybrid a unique tank and give them det acess and be done with it?

Who's confused exactly?

EternitySphere wrote:Who's confused exactly?

Ppl who dont realize that a savage is for all intended purposes a melee hybrid.

hopscotsch wrote:Braxis reminds me a bit of Toblerone.

The hib hybrids groupability should be better than the other realms thanks to group purge. Im not saying they will be good, just relatively better than the other realms hybrids in groups.

You can't expect druids to blow GP just cause the one champ in grp is rooted.
It's flawed, stuff like this is just a small patch on a big wound.

Ppl who dont realize that a savage is for all intended purposes a melee hybrid.

The following determines a light tank:
1. Ability to duel wield.
2. Wears the 2nd to last armor (RF, Studded, Chain)
3. Does NOT have a mana pool.

Hybrid
1. Can not duel wield.
2. Wear 2nd to last OR last armor.
3. Has a mana pool.

I suppose the TL's and light tank community are also "confuzed" as to what a savage is since they were included in our discussions on the old light tank forums as well. I do appreciate you clarifying for us who's confused though.

Edit - For clarification, in case you aren't understanding this thread, it's meant to try to come to a compromise FOR hybrids (meaning, help) so the mods can see our point. As Zarkor stated, the chances of Hybrids getting full out light tank version of Det + discounted RA's is a pipedream.

EternitySphere wrote:

Ppl who dont realize that a savage is for all intended purposes a melee hybrid.

The following determines a light tank:
1. Ability to duel wield.
2. Wears the 2nd to last armor (RF, Studded, Chain)
3. Does NOT have a mana pool.

Hybrid
1. Can not duel wield.
2. Wear 2nd to last OR last armor.
3. Has a mana pool.

I suppose the TL's and light tank community are also "confuzed" as to what a savage is since they were included in our discussions on the old light tank forums as well. I do appreciate you clarifying for us who's confused though.

Edit - For clarification, in case you aren't understanding this thread, it's meant to try to come to a compromise FOR hybrids (meaning, help) so the mods can see our point. As Zarkor stated, the chances of Hybrids getting full out light tank version of Det + discounted RA's is a pipedream.

Thank you for putting that straight. I'm glad there's more souls on this forum who know what they're talking about.

Savages ARE light tanks (even though they aren't actual dual wielders i reality, but let's not bicker about mechanics), there's no denying it.

Savagery is a Savage's Zerk Mode/Triple Wield/Dirty Tricks, it's more valuable than the free abilties the other light tanks recieve, but it comes at a way higher cost aswell, not only does it drain HP, it also drains spec points. Taunt is their 'ranged rupt' like a short bow and their melee is also their ONLY way of making a difference, just like any other fully melee orientated class. That is why they are a tank more than anything and deserve Det just like any other real tank.

So let's end this savage discussion right here. If you insist on arguing nonetheless, please, by all means make a thread about it or find one more suitable. This is not the place to do so, this thread is about REAL hybrids. Which means, not the ones who aren't, or who are believed to be by only a few...



On-topic then: I agree that I was wrong putting Minstrels and Skalds in that list.

The one thing that strikes me though is how the vast majority of those who've participated in this thread almost completely agree on how to solve the Old RA's biggest issue. I guess that's good to know.


Though, if anyone still has something constructive to add, don't hesitate.

Let's really put it straight then.

Savages do not dual wield. They also have not one "ability" like light tanks, but several of them, and in this game those are called "self buffs". They also had an insta-Taunt spell, just like many hybrids, which was nerfed only later. Or was the class itself perhaps nerfed into light tanks? The official Beginners Guide also calls Savages hybrids. There are many fluff descriptions in that guide, but the word "hybrid" is clearly defined in bold letters, and then used to describe savages.

Furthermore, Valewalkers wear cloth, and Friars wear leather. I could probably find much more exceptions to that ludicrous list, but I don't have the time now.

The point here isn't whether Savages were treated as light tanks by Mythic and the TLs - everyone knows they were. Why the hell would the TLs argue about Mythics *naming* of all things? The point is what they *really* are, and that is hybrids. Their class defining ability are their self buffs. Calling Savages light tanks just because Mythic treated them so is totally absurd when coming from the mouths (keyboards?) of people who, for all intents and purposes escaped from Mythics way of running this game. It's literally the same as calling a Necromancer - a hybrid.

Thank you, and good night.

Nymeros wrote:The point is what they *really* are, and that is hybrids.

What they really are is that they are EXACTLY as useless as ANY OF Det tank in CC. THAT is why they receive Det AND require Det to perform decently, period.


I know I'm not going to convince you with this because you're too stubborn to listen to other people's arguments, let alone come to the conclusion that you could possibly be wrong about ... well basicly about any possible subject.

That's also why there is no point in arguing with you at all, about anything. Which is why I'll try to stop bothering replying to your endless rants, even though I can't really stand someone preaching 'the truth' even though he woulnd't accept the real truth if there was no denying it.


Anyway, enough with this, I told you to NOT to continue this discussion here, yet you just couldn't resist.

Fine then, do what you please, but I urge everyone who's not as stubborn as he is to let it go or find another thread to talk about it.




...in fact, I guess this thread can even be closed. We've came up with a solution for the problem that seems to be backed up by the majority of the players (judging from the random sample that is the people who participated in this thread), so there's really no need for further discussion.

I'll update my Original post so you can lock this thread to prevent further useless off-topicness.

Well, it's not only mine but even (if I'm not mistaken) your belief that even hybrids require Det to perform decently. It may even be the subject of this topic. I also never said I'm against Savages getting higher tank-like Det, but hey, who really READS anymore, right?

But thank you for that very... odd post, and for sharing your conclusions with us.

personally i would like to see the of ra implimented as classically as possible.

Astealoth wrote:personally i would like to see the of ra implimented as classically as possible.

Fair enough, though the people that acknowledge and would prefer having a solution to the Hybrid issue generally back up what's now in the OP.

That's all this thread is about. ^^

Furthermore, Valewalkers wear cloth, and Friars wear leather. I could probably find much more exceptions to that ludicrous list, but I don't have the time now.

I was waiting for you to mention VW's, I left you room to reply. It's a silly reason, but Mythic felt to keep with Hib's style (magical realm, yada yada) to make a caster hybdrid which falls into it's own catagory. A hybrid in it's own right, but still melee, it's a hybrid but not in the classic sense. And...friars? Are you serious? Friars are no more a hybrid then a warden is. They serve the same, niche role with a few twists to make the classes individual. Base buffs, resists, while one has pbt, the other can dish out a little more melee dps.

The point here isn't whether Savages were treated as light tanks by Mythic and the TLs - everyone knows they were.

Actually that's the point. Seems Im having to explain their reasoning behind why THEY assigned them the role of a light tank, and the general outline of what a light tank is. At the same time, trying to defend that I think hybrids deserve a lesser form of the light tank's version of det.

We can go back and forth for 20 pages, and the only thing you'll accomplish is increasing your post count. It won't really address the issue of "Hybdrids and Det". Not whether or not you feel a class does or does not deserve to be classified as such, were going by what Mythic devs/TL's classified them as, afaik.

You're welcome to debate it with Mythic, shrug.

all this discussion is pointless

You guys really think the GMs will give a ******? they haven't done anything for hybrids thus far.....champs/vws/friars/thanes still suck.

They don't even want to implement a cure NS AT ALL...so there is no way they will help hybrids.

Sorry but I'm a realist lol

Dont forget that each archer has Det in NF RA's. Why should they be left out of these custom change request. Maybe if we do this change, we should do other issue fixes, like stealth issues. The problem with making custom changes is, who gets to decide who gets rewarded with them.

Should the classes that get played the most get these changes ?
Should those who are the staff favs get custom changes ?
Should those who QQ about a change get that change ?

When it truely comes down to it, everyone will have something they will want changed, but there is no way everyone will get what they want. So some bias will be presented in the custom changes. For some but not all. That is why custom changes isnt a good idea, because if you do one for a class or classes, then who says they shouldnt do others for those who play diffrent classes.

Only considerations i could consider is if mythic made adjustments to some RA or game feature in the future, that wasnt influenced by current Expansions or other things of such. Example is that more had gained Det in New RAs. At the same time, the stealth system was changed for balance reasons, and nether ToA or other issues had influenecd that. If there is any custom changes, it should be based on later patches, that where not influence by expansions.

But it all comes down to if the staff wants to open that can of worms.

Panchos wrote:all this discussion is pointless

You guys really think the GMs will give a [I am a little bunny and like flowers]? they haven't done anything for hybrids thus far.....champs/vws/friars/thanes still suck.

They don't even want to implement a cure NS AT ALL...so there is no way they will help hybrids.

Sorry but I'm a realist lol

Not to mention that this is just one of the many problems that won't get addressed. Can't wait.