Blue wrote:Zarkor, I think you overestimate the BG's. I give you some numbers from just now (00:40 german time), => 125/24/11/27/72

The last one is DF. The rest you can figure out yourself.

of/braemar/wilton/thid/df?

close?
what do i win? :)

2 wrong

Blue wrote:Zarkor, I think you overestimate the BG's. I give you some numbers from just now (00:40 german time), => 125/24/11/27/72

The last one is DF. The rest you can figure out yourself.

Well, not everyone who avoids end RvR necessarily goes to BGs. There's definately players who simply quit playing on Uthgard instead. (example: Ethiopia, leveled up to 50, realised end RvR was far from what it should be, disappeared from the server ever since, same goes for The Talandor and I'm sure many others have been through the same)

Now I'm not trying to be the ultimate pessimist here, but it's quite obvious that there's a lot of room for improvement.


Now just think with me here for a second. What is the main reason people don't do end RvR?

-> not finding a group since you can hardly do anything without having stealth or a decent setup.

What is the thing you can do best in BGs? Exactly, go out solo as a visible without any support or whatever or go out as a half-half setup. There will be targets who you can kill even though there might also be stronger groups out.


Now how do you make OF attractive for those smallman and solos again? Provide them with enemies. Other solos/smallman, fg xpers, questers, keepraiders, anything that goes into OF is good enough to provide action for the playstyle Uthgard is currently having a very very unrewarding setting for.


So how do you attract those players to enter OF? Either by simply improving OF, increasing xp bonusses and spawns/more mobs, implementing keep taking tasks, implementing OF player kill xp bonusses that are high enough to make lower level players take the risk to go out and hunt for lvl 50s, ... basicly everything I stated besides the BG reforms.

OR

you can multiply this effect by reducing BG RvR to the levels of 20-35 and merge the OF bonusses with the fact that that is the only place to get your RPs (besides a lucky DF kill) and a Great place to get your XPs aswell. What better way to xp is there than xping on enemy players? Yes, it's not killing enemies in BGs anymore, it's a lot tougher, but the reward should also be a lot sweeter.

This way players above level 36 will not be 'forced' or 'ment' to level and rvr their character to anywhere before joining end RvR, they will be attracted and rewarded for joining end RvR even though it's not necessary, creating an immense increase of smallman and solo action, which will only have a chain reaction on any other form of RvR.


I'm sure it won't be long before the players who used to take smallmans and soloers on with a fg will roam Emain with 12 at realm rank 3-4 at levels 45+ to 50, hunting fullgroups, creating a completely different mindset than there is now, where everyone 'HAS' to be in a fullgroup with the 'perfect' setup.
Voila, not only have you brought more people into end RvR who are enjoying their free time because they find decent action and can decently improve their character in a very entertaining way, but also is there a switch in attitude coming from the core on, coming from the newer players, which will succesfully make those new players stick to RvRing and playing on Uthgard and most likely have a positive influence on the existing players, which is probably what Uthgard currently struggles the most with: making players play and KEEP playing on Uthgard because they enjoy it.

I hope you see my point a bit more clearly now.



PS: Indeed, it was OF, Thid, Wilton, Brae, DF..

well i get the point, but you dont seem to get mine.
its all pretty and pink getting the new ones in rvr and if need be with a sledgehammer.
still, even 24 of those 45-50 rr1-4 will be wiped out seriously quick by whats already running. without the aid of the veterans you cant expect your recruits to live long.

BlackCougar wrote:well i get the point, but you dont seem to get mine.
its all pretty and pink getting the new ones in rvr and if need be with a sledgehammer.
still, even 24 of those 45-50 rr1-4 will be wiped out seriously quick by whats already running. without the aid of the veterans you cant expect your recruits to live long.

Yep, true that, but all this will make it more likely for Emain to become a zergfest, putting pressure on the more established fullgroups to go 8v8 in for instance Hadrians Wall instead of getting added by a 12slot every time they get an inc in Emain.

I did get your point, I simply didn't mention it yet since it's Blue I need to convince in the first place, my bad, sorry.


PS: Increasing crafting speed would be a very welcome helping hand for those XPers since they will need all the power they can get if they're gonna have to withstand assaults from RR9 soloers. (again, part of the complete package )

Xping and getting RRs in OF is simply awesome, foir the xpers aswell as for the smallman comunity, but having to get a fullcap lvl 51 SC template at level 40 simply isn't doable for a player without an established guild, a lot of cash and or access to all crafters, which is basicly every new player's situation. I can imagine getting very annoyed of getting 2 shotted simply because they can't get a hold of decent gear due to a lack of time/money. As a level 40 without BGs you're still trying to get to 50 preferably quicker than slower and not being able to enjoy that xp bonus, thrill and rp bonus for killing enemies in OF simply because of gear would just be frustrating and making you think more of WoW than DAoC.

Making crafting more worthwhile to do (both taking orders as making a crafter yourself) will make getting at least some form of crafted gear easier and more worthwhile, succesfully giving those xpers more chance vs the end RvR violence they will face by lowering the currently too high cost to actually get some decent gear.


In other words, increasing the crafting speed will definately NOT be an "unnecessary" change in that situation.

Removing Thid=worst idea ever, plain and simple.

Fixing the problems of the current RvR setting by making the game less diverse is the totally wrong approach.

Not to mention that NOTHING will balance endgame RvR for lvl 36 people. No bonuses, no XP bonuses, no nothing. You can't change the fact that a single lvl 50 person can kill your whole group.

if you where in rvr just now, or rather the last couple hours, you could see exactly what we need: unity!

albs and mids zerged, and we zerged them right back and gave em hell - and went for an relicraid (not succesful though) afterwards.

if we stick together every day like we did today, the other players will come by themselfs.
i just logged in for a quick hello before going to bed and ended up having fun in big scale rvr for 2 hours and staying till the end of the raid.

if those 2 and a half group wouldnt have joint up i would have logged right away siince they where a total of 7-9fgs around according to our rangers.

What about those players who don't enjoy mindless zerg fests?
I was there yesterday.

Did I get more rps then I would with a FG or definitely solo?
Sure I did.

Did I enjoy it?
Nope.

Other peoples play-styles are not getting enough respect around here.

Braxis wrote:What about those players who don't enjoy mindless zerg fests?
I was there yesterday.

Did I get more rps then I would with a FG or definitely solo?
Sure I did.

Did I enjoy it?
Nope.

Same here. Made a group the past two nights. First time we ran through an empty Emain for an hour as half the server was on the hib relics. Yesterday we got run over by mids two or three times our number and /quit.

Maidrion wrote:

Braxis wrote:What about those players who don't enjoy mindless zerg fests?
I was there yesterday.

Did I get more rps then I would with a FG or definitely solo?
Sure I did.

Did I enjoy it?
Nope.

Same here. Made a group the past two nights. First time we ran through an empty Emain for an hour as half the server was on the hib relics. Yesterday we got run over by mids two or three times our number and /quit.

go to hadrians

smack on a few guards and hope only 1 grp comes

after a while everyone who hates zerging goes with you

if there truely is so many of you, you should be able to pull some players away from the zerg (just as I personally have been able to drag some players out of emain and into odins to solo simply by deathspam / guardspam / talking about it on forums)

why is thid attractive?
it's a controlled enviroment:
all players are sced
all players have all their abilities
all players are 4L1 or below
most players use charges and pots

it's the place where the differences between the players are the smallest here on uthgard. in the other bg and of course in of, the gap is much bigger. of course, this isn't regarding the player skill which has a big gap where ever you go.

add the fact that you can have real solo and small group action for hours which is never the case (at least during my euro playtimes) in of.
and the fact that you find a group easily even if you're specced 'exotic' or play a not so group friendly class.

still: thid is not real rvr. imo real rvr is what we had on the last relic raid. i'll prefer this to thid anytime. let's hope it's going to happen more often in future...

Nymeros wrote:Removing Thid=worst idea ever, plain and simple.

Fixing the problems of the current RvR setting by making the game less diverse is the totally wrong approach.

Not to mention that NOTHING will balance endgame RvR for lvl 36 people. No bonuses, no XP bonuses, no nothing. You can't change the fact that a single lvl 50 person can kill your whole group.

Not really.

Those lvl 36 players will have all the peace on earth they need to get 40ish if they need to. Now you can claim whatever you want but any decent fg of lvl 40 players will rape a solo 50. That's just 4-5 levels after leaving Caledonia. Especially if 3-5 of them have some decent gear. That lvl 50 isn't less vulnerable to CC/enemy healing and he will still go down vs that many. Sure he can kill 2-3, maybe 4, but isn't that a good thing for him aswell?

Not to mention this would cause a serious change not only in player numbers in OF, it would drasticly increase smallman and solo action, it would drasticly increase the chance for lower level / RR / skill players to find a group and join in on the fun which is currently Emain's biggest problem.

Btw, it's not just Thidranki, Wilton would have to go too, and Braemar split up in 3.

The players who insist on sticking to BG RvR still will have the opportunity, simply not at a stage which is extremely close to lvl 50 and the full potential of their character. End RvR is ment for that, not BGs.


Oh and not to mention, change likes 5 minute port timer, horse routes, BP bonus for smallman/solo, keeptasks and the like would all be part of the reforms, which will on themselves fix a huge portion of the smallman and solo problems. Reworking the BGs is simply a change to switch the general action and mindset to remove the "why would I go to end RvR if I need a perfect setup there which I need 1 hour at leas to get only to run into a high RR set grp if I can simply do the same in Thid?" kind of RvR mentality OF offers at the moment.

You can have solo action in OF on all times! Just go Odins Gate and check out amg and hmg for, lets say 15 minutes each... should be enough for solos to spot and get you.

No you can't, I've been there for HOURS for several days. I saw only a few grays passing by and maybe 1 or 2 incs at best. I repeat, hours.

Zarkor
Yes, really.

The Battleground system was concieved as an alternative to RvR. You can claim they're free to level, but they are NOT free to RvR, and that's the whole point. And they wouldn't encounter a solo lvl 50, not in OF.

And no, it wouldn't increase smallman and solo action. I am a Thid player becouse of OF (hated it back in NF). We would just quit.

All the other changes should be able endgame RvR to coexist with the Battleground system. If they can't do that, then it's the system's fault, and not the fault of alternatives.

Once again, removing Thid is simply against common sense. It's just a single step away from removing DF for the same misguided reasons.

If you really can't fix OF without actually TAKING PARTS OF THE GAME OUT, then it really is completely flawed.

Interesting.... Ive been there yesterday and ive made 2 solomissions(about 13 kills in odins) within 1,5 hours.