mos2 PD5


thats 4L8


id take that over mos2 viper3 anytime

mm, I was gonna stay outta this but I can't help myself, lol.

I've played an inf on live (since before SI) and have the most experience with it outta all the other classes in Alb.

1) I can assure you that you have always been able to re-poison your enemies with weapons sitting in your inventory without a timer.

2)

devilsfury wrote:
Literally get in one PA and run away and you can win most fights versus people who dont have IP.... Its already bad enough that most stealthers can almost 1 shot the vast majority of classes not including poison damage.
.

Show me. Please.

3)

Cespx wrote:If only of you fellow assassins looked at it objectively you would see Lifebane dmg doesnt totaly go with Uthgard settings.

Lifebane is not the issue.. Viper 3 is. I'll agree that Viper 3 is a lot of dmg when keeping this into comparrison, so how about drop it to 75% increase in dmg instead of 100% or something along those lines?

4)

Cespx wrote:But it's not all. Not only gives them Viper3 100% more dmg but somehow (or something grants them additional bonus). Just check Eshe's screenshot:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/5770/rr5charge.jpg

140dmg gives exactly 133% dmg more.

Man... learn something about the game before you start making incorrect assumptions. Esh has Viper3 (120 dmg tick you see in the SS) and is using Dual Shadows (20-24 dmg bleed you see). They are not one in the same.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... I thought the point of this thread was about why there are not more Hunters and Scouts around and not "grab the pitch forks and torches, we're hunting for Shadowblades, Nightshades and Infiltrators tonight!".

This has been said before, and anyone who knows a thing about the impact of Realm Ranks has will understand that you can not complain about your class or any other class until you are over RR5... preferably RR6.

Regardless of your class, you will get rocked by higher RR's simply because they have a bonus to outright damage and defence, spec variables, RA choices and experience.

My inf had to CRAWL to get to rr5 and I died more often than not. I hated rangers, they could kick my ass without question (/shake fist at Ronia ). With IP and PD I didn't stand a chance and increasing the level of Viper was the only way to compete with them (at that realm rank). After I got RR6 the tables turned and now I do quite well for myself... but I had to put in a lot of time and effort and many hours of complaining in /gu that I died again. Hell, I still lose to lower RR (sub rr5) classes sometimes

My point is... please take the time to suffer through the lower realm ranks so that when you get to RR6 you can have a realistic outlook on your character vs others. That being said, some classes are designed to be weak vs others and maintain certain roles... you can't win everything (god knows). If you are higher RR and still can't solo/kill anything (over exaggeration) than perhaps you need to get better gear, rethink your spec, change your RA's or perhaps even accept that you are not a solo class.

To answer Fresa's question of why there aren't more Scouts and Hunters, I offer this: There aren't enough people who play those characters who are willing to get a high enough RR that they can compete with higher RR's and TALK to other people about it. No one will want to play a scout if all they hear is negative remarks, but the opposite will be true if there are scouts who like their class and become good at their roll.

Watch out for Fireants.

Ok then i will play until rr10 and in 2 years, i can post this again or what?

I have played since 2002 a rr3&rr6 scout on toa, rr9 ranger toa, rr6 ranger classic europe, rr5 scout classic US, rr5 inf classic europe, rr5 sb classic europe, rr5 inf classic US and now fresa with 5l3 here. I do know something about stealth classes, trust me.

There IS a balance issue here for archer classes and it is in the hp/dmg ratio against assasins and their poisons especially.
Most pressing issue is the poor state of archery though.

Honestly you cannot really believe, Koami, that it is just pure coincidence, that scouts and hunters are underplayed here on Uthgard.
Come on...

Fresa.

shadowblade was my first toon on the server here. was fun to play , just the lack of poison damage (wasn´t implemented correclty at that time, you had a huuuuge variance) took a bit away from the fun .
PA was mad overpowered at that time (dealing up to 700ish regardless of the opposing armor) so thats what ppl went for.
months passed by.

pa/bs got fixed . was a bit harder then , but still fun ( low population , other rvr zone , was one out of 5(!) active stealthers back then).took long time to find inc , but at least you got all the time in the world to fight (no adds).

then dots finally got fixed. i was like "whoopeee" and first thing i did was went to a dragonraid to get a ra respec. tried viper 3 ... and hell it was awesome. played stealthers for a while so i knew the drill (weapon swapping ,re-poison after purge).first 2 weeks after the fix was just madness.wasn´t even scared to jump groups of 3 anymore.

another week later i started to get lazy . didn´t use buff potions anymore - just wasn´t nessecary. later i stopped using charges (used 4 charges constantly ... pretty long time before others recognized the strenght of af/haste charges). it just wasn´t the same.

i remember killing a rr7 paladin with 2 hits (bs . let dot do its job - finish with pa). rr7 at that time was like rr11 today - maaad high rr. then i started getting really lazy. didn´t even bother anymore with reactionary styles .....

was just no challenge anymore. not at all.rolled a runemaster after that as my new solo toon and just played the sb occasionally.nobody played the class so i wanted to give it a shot - thats another story.

2 years have passed since then. a lot of time. and latly there are is a lot more action going on in agramon ... and a TON more stealthers with that.

long story short : viper IS too strong for the uthgard setup. after i re-discovered the lame way of daoc it just wasn´t the same anymore.the once challenging class became an absolute lame-nobrainer class.

i don´t regret deleting the char at all.

salbei wrote:shadowblade was my first toon on the server here. was fun to play , just the lack of poison damage (wasn´t implemented correclty at that time, you had a huuuuge variance) took a bit away from the fun .
PA was mad overpowered at that time (dealing up to 700ish regardless of the opposing armor) so thats what ppl went for.
months passed by.

pa/bs got fixed . was a bit harder then , but still fun ( low population , other rvr zone , was one out of 5(!) active stealthers back then).took long time to find inc , but at least you got all the time in the world to fight (no adds).

then dots finally got fixed. i was like "whoopeee" and first thing i did was went to a dragonraid to get a ra respec. tried viper 3 ... and hell it was awesome. played stealthers for a while so i knew the drill (weapon swapping ,re-poison after purge).first 2 weeks after the fix was just madness.wasn´t even scared to jump groups of 3 anymore.

another week later i started to get lazy . didn´t use buff potions anymore - just wasn´t nessecary. later i stopped using charges (used 4 charges constantly ... pretty long time before others recognized the strenght of af/haste charges). it just wasn´t the same.

i remember killing a rr7 paladin with 2 hits (bs . let dot do its job - finish with pa). rr7 at that time was like rr11 today - maaad high rr. then i started getting really lazy. didn´t even bother anymore with reactionary styles .....

was just no challenge anymore. not at all.rolled a runemaster after that as my new solo toon and just played the sb occasionally.nobody played the class so i wanted to give it a shot - thats another story.

2 years have passed since then. a lot of time. and latly there are is a lot more action going on in agramon ... and a TON more stealthers with that.

long story short : viper IS too strong for the uthgard setup. after i re-discovered the lame way of daoc it just wasn´t the same anymore.the once challenging class became an absolute lame-nobrainer class.

i don´t regret deleting the char at all.

i think at the begining stealthers needed some skill and were fun. now anybody can play it. archers still need some skill. And the players that are skilled will prefere a lot a char that can do more with the skill you put in it and that can be grouped... the unskilled players will keep a stealther. i am just curious that somebody name a player that usually play a stealther and that is good with a group char. the few players that got high rank stealther that i met on classic char were totaly noob and some were even not able to play it for leveling ^^

<---- isnt bad bard / druid

Demoreg wrote:accept that you are not a solo class.

They can't, they just cant understand that ANY other class but stealther classes are meant to be GROUP char, that DAoC was built to have GROUP setups with your tanks/caster/whatever, and few understand that any other classes BUT assasins/archers are NOT meant to solo.

@ cespx, right, how about the PD timer? if viper should have a timer why not PD too? like OLD ra's?

Or do you think that a rr9 shadowblade, with 1200 WS, strcon pot, str pot, aug str2, that does 40(-60) dmg on a PD5 ranger with anytimer its normal?

Fresa wrote:Ok then i will play until rr10 and in 2 years, i can post this again or what?

I have played since 2002 a rr3&rr6 scout on toa, rr9 ranger toa, rr6 ranger classic europe, rr5 scout classic US, rr5 inf classic europe, rr5 sb classic europe, rr5 inf classic US and now fresa with 5l3 here. I do know something about stealth classes, trust me.

There IS a balance issue here for archer classes and it is in the hp/dmg ratio against assasins and their poisons especially.
Most pressing issue is the poor state of archery though.

Honestly you cannot really believe, Koami, that it is just pure coincidence, that scouts and hunters are underplayed here on Uthgard.
Come on...

Fresa.

Man, I'm not questioning that you have played higher rr toons/stealthers before. This is not live, though, and the situation is different here.. so, the rules that apply on live are not necessarily applicable here. I'm simply saying that on Uthgard, everyone (not just you) needs to play their character (regardless of class) long enough before they really know it's weaknesses and strengths.

Honestly, I believe that a lot of people THINK that playing stealth is easy and fun. Truth is that it's a pain in the ass a lot of the time and there are few times whe you get fair, fun fights (less often than you'd think) without adds. Ask Runis how much fun it is to kill low RR guys or guys without skill... it's not much fun. You do it because you can, but the fights you really enjoy are the ones that take a bit of skill and time. I only really get thse fights vs Shadowblades... about the only class that I really enjoy fighting.

I honestly believe that Scout/Hunter classes have a stigma attached to them and that is a HUGE deterrent. Obviously, the class needs some help... I'm not saying that it doesn't. You can't deny that the stigma I mentioned wouldn't effect a lot of people from playing the class to 50 and then REALLY giving it a shot in Agra.

I will admit to having rolled a scout on Uthgard and eventually deleting him. I understand the frustrations and I'd love to see nothing more than a bump to the Bow classes.

@ pana & salbei:

There has been a remarkable increase in the number of infs (not sure about SB/NS) in agra over the last few weeks... it's actually kinda annoying from my perspective. Most can barely play their class because they think it's pretty easy and don't take the time to learn the details of the class... they are a waste of space imo. There are a few that I respec and they know who they are. Guess I dislike people who roll a class because its the FOTM.

Oh, and I play my paladin, cleric and sorcerer quite well, I think. I actually love to play my cleric when there isn't any action in Agra... I

This reminds me of the thread a hero started saying OMGZZ I IZ A HERO AND SOEM INFI TOTALLY WTFPWNED ME, SURE I DIDN'T HAVE CHARGES UP AND MY RR SPEC WUZ DET5 BUT HOW CAN HE KEEL ME I IZ A HERO?

Anyone that is whining about stealthers you should consider this:

When you are rr5+ and when you are running with 3pots, 4-5 charges AND you have the right RA's, if you still get rolled by assassins regulary than and only than can you complain.


Sure archery is bad atm, not as bad as most people think, but it is not as it should be. That, however, is not the discussion for RvR forum it is the discussion for bugreport, and there are already a couple of threads about that as well as a report from zippity.

Demoreg wrote: I only really get thse fights vs Shadowblades... about the only class that I really enjoy fighting.

That is about to change just ask comet what he thinks of my new spec

So i read the topic now and looks like a QQ thread

I Think Viper has really big power, but a NS / Infi / SB most walks solo.

When you are solo and run without any Power to kill others it is worthless to play them. A assasin won´t come in grp´s, cause other players allways look 4 healer or DPS and a Assasin ist not really a healer or DMGdealer, and he is not a tank. Most time a Assasin got killed with 3 hits when is in a "normal" RVR grp.

A Timer which needs 30sec to repoison a enemy is very hard, cause most fights are really hard without posion.

I also play a Nightshade and will not say that viper isnt as strong as it is, but you ALLWAYS walk solo or in grp with rangers or other NS and you hase to look very long till you found 1 solo, most of the time there are 3-8man grp in agra and there a NS / SB / INFI couldn´t do anything without viper or with a repoisiontimer. It will not say that it is impossible to kill others with viper, but when the other uses IP in a fight a Assasin is death.

When Nerf Viper don´t make a Repoision timer cause the poison is a little helper 4 NS against a IP player, cause when i got my PA and then IP the PA was worthless and the poison could help a bit to win the 1vs1, but when there is a 30sec timer it would be impossible to kill most chars.


Maybe Viper could be nerfed in other form, like something that only the first 2 tick DMGed with Viper and all other ticks (include the repoisoned) tick without Viper. so there would be at a 1vs1 ONLY 2 ticks witch Viper and the other all without.

Or make a resistant after Purge Viper to get only the normal poison DMG and absorb the Power of viper then.


(sry 4 my bad english ;D i hop you understood me )

Years of brainwashing following VN-board-style discussions have led some ppl to think labeling something as QQing would be an argument.
Please learn how something is discussed on a factual basis (It could also help you in your future career to learn some basic logic and discussion skills).
Discuss the facts, the numbers, that i gave in my initial post or introduce new facts, that make a point for your case.

@Zarakis: I use all the pots and charges i can and i am rr5, thanks zarakis for another enriching comment to this discussion. And i said it reapeatedly before: i can hold my own as a ranger once RAs are up, but i cannot imagine how scouts and hunters would do that.

Scouts and Hunters are underplayed. This is a plain fact. Go check statistics like i did and stop calling someone's arguments QQing.

Of course i am not satisfied with the fact, that a single ordinary blow from the poisoned blades of an opponent costs me about 60%+ of my healthpoints.

Fresa.

P.s.: PD5 is a bad choice for any Archer imo, when you can skill tough5 instead. Just do the math and factor in, that tough5 augments ip2 also by another 200 hps and is at the same time good against magic dmg.

And don't start to tell me, that i could have both along with the basics like mos, purge, ip, when rr13.....

i have an awsome idea , dont play a stealther class if u dont like it , u knew that is nerfed, and still u lvl'd it to 50 and + no nixian , no , we dont need more soloers , we need more grps , cos the current status of uth dosent allow this srv to be 200 stealthers , 300 pve'ers and 10 ppl in agra cos its JUST SAD SAD SAD SAD been running the other day for 5 whole hours , only 1 grp of albs and 1 grp of hibs ... WTF?

i mean dude , /who shadowblade >> any other class population on mid atm . so wtf.... srly

Fresa i have other question. If viper3 is really strong and all assasins are realy kill machins, why there are only 3-4 active ns in agramon and 20 rangers?
Here sb is strongest than hunter, and infi strongest than scout. This is cause that there aren´t scouts and hunters in agrmon.

imo:
just fix the archery damage, that's all.

don't mess around with nerfing poison damage, viper or changing repoison mechanics. if something should be changed, then it's changing to the old ra in general. assassins loose viper and vanish then, but archers will loose mos and pd. volley was an ra too (not sure on this one). then there's the ra 'see hidden' and 'true sight'. i don't know if archers are better off then.

and i have a hunter and a sb, both RR4. for my hunter i just want to have the right archery damage to play him again. of course, there are other minor issues (like pet damage, pet los, melee spec useless, etc.), but these don't hold me off from playing him, archery damage is.