Of course it shows that I havne't played on Yggdrasil. I haven't, I was never denying that :p. I think you refered to Yggdra because its a 'look this kind of worked' situation.

OF is not insanely well designed, I can't see how you can come to that conclusion -.- . OF had major issues, such issues that were just starting to be a problem at the time which is why they scrapped it and redid it. Agramon was a zone designed to resemble a classic setting, with a properly designed map setting. If you know the drive routes its much easier to avoid groups in agra than it was in old Emain. You talk about the NF zones being flat and similiar, why is that? because most rvr in OF took place in OF emain zone, which was flat... and people didn't like how hilly the old alb zones were ect. What good is it if each zone had its own unique feel if people didn't like to rvr in them.

OF is riddled with design and balance issues from top to bottom, which is why it was replaced. They created NF after they had a better grasp on things to adjust many of the major imbalances of OF that were just starting to be exploited. Yes, NF has balance issues as well but at least they're issues that aren't too difficult to overcome. OF was fun because people were bad, nobody knew much about the game and everyone played crappy specs. People ran shield tanks, hardly anyone ran with NS, you saw all kinds of awfully bad specs and gear ect, it simply would not be the same format today even if it was identical in mechanics [which would be impossible to completely replicate].

When I said alot of people were happy as is I was talking about people who I frequently rvr with, I play this game to rvr, if I say something, its usually in relation to how it affects rvr.

A larger map would require more of a population, if we didn't have agramon rvr would be impossible at anytime other than peak hours, and there are 3 extra zones people can branch out to if its too crowded at peak hours. If theres only 2 or 3 groups running it would be difficult to find each other in zones larger than agramon, the server rapidly fluctuating action and a larger zone wouldn't help when it dies down have to take that into consideration.

Zarkor wrote:

KXT wrote:
I do believe it's worthwile because 1 it would be a godsent to a LOT of the players and 2 because it would make Uthgard become even more popular thus increasing the action and enforcing the need for a bigger rvr zone such as OF.

That is sure , if we change map to Old frontier , a lot of people will join Uthgard

Noir wrote:

Zarkor wrote:

KXT wrote:
I do believe it's worthwile because 1 it would be a godsent to a LOT of the players and 2 because it would make Uthgard become even more popular thus increasing the action and enforcing the need for a bigger rvr zone such as OF.

That is sure , if we change map to Old frontier , a lot of people will join Uthgard

Change your avatar.

KXT wrote:OF is riddled with design and balance issues from top to bottom, which is why it was replaced. They created NF after they had a better grasp on things to adjust many of the major imbalances of OF that were just starting to be exploited. Yes, NF has balance issues as well but at least they're issues that aren't too difficult to overcome. OF was fun because people were bad, nobody knew much about the game and everyone played crappy specs. People ran shield tanks, hardly anyone ran with NS, you saw all kinds of awfully bad specs and gear ect, it simply would not be the same format today even if it was identical in mechanics [which would be impossible to completely replicate].

...

A larger map would require more of a population, if we didn't have agramon rvr would be impossible at anytime other than peak hours, and there are 3 extra zones people can branch out to if its too crowded at peak hours. If theres only 2 or 3 groups running it would be difficult to find each other in zones larger than agramon, the server rapidly fluctuating action and a larger zone wouldn't help when it dies down have to take that into consideration.

Just because some people were gimped it doesnt mean the map was better or more fun..
Ever since NF got implemented people wanted OF back, not because they wanted more gimps to butcher, but because lots of people just feel OF is a better RvR map. I'm sure there still were a lot of gimps around at the time they implemented NF. Imo this isn't a real argument. Oh and let's face it, Uthgard isn't populated by the best of the best is it?
Another thing, you make it sound like implementing OF is actually asking to travel back in time to the time live had OF, with the exact same settings. People want Uthgard as it is, and be able to RvR in Old Frontiers as Uthgard implements it, it doesn't matter whether it would have 'the same format' or not, just OF as it would be today would be more than enough.

About the population, I will say it again. If you bring OF back in the awesome classic setting Uthgard has, a LOT, and I mean a LOT of people would come to Uthgard, mainly because of 2 reasons: Origins is kind of cancelled, so say 70% of the people who wanted to play that are just trying to find smth as similar as possible, which would definately be Uthgard, if not even better than Origins. Second reason is because WAR is a failure aswell, a lot of people who played DAoC tried WAR and a lot of them are just not satisfied with the game mechanics and the way they handled the RvR. If they find a server like Uthgard and hear that it's got good old OF, I'm sure they'll at least try it out.
Not to mention that Agramon today has reached its peak. Due to the camps, 90% of the action is still in Agramon itself. When there's like 6 groups out there, which happens quite a lot, there really isn't room for more, it's getting very hard to avoid getting zerged or or added, which kinda destroys the grp RvR. This ends up in zergwars or raids, which is where a lot of people just call it a day because they want to RvR instead of zerg or bash some wood.

Herm666 wrote:

Noir wrote:

Zarkor wrote:

KXT wrote:
I do believe it's worthwile because 1 it would be a godsent to a LOT of the players and 2 because it would make Uthgard become even more popular thus increasing the action and enforcing the need for a bigger rvr zone such as OF.

That is sure , if we change map to Old frontier , a lot of people will join Uthgard

Change your avatar.

I think this is something we can all agree on!

You have nothing but speculation and opinion as a basis of 'more people will join Uth if we switch to OF'. Origins being cancelled is probably due to their polls showing there just wasn't enough people interested. No where near 70% of the people who wanted to play Origins would make their way to Uthgard, not everyone plays freeshards, most people are skeptical of them.

Perhaps agramon being overcrowded at peak action has more to do with the camps than the map itself [perhaps disable camp port during peak hours, I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of change to keep both peak hours and off hours a healthy rvr format]. With a larger map rvr would completely die anytime other than peak hours, its hard enough to get a fight during off-hours as is, a larger map would only make that worse.

OF era was not fun because people were 'gimp', my point was more so that in general fighting weaker characters and group setups was in general more fun in the pug environment, because everyone was a pug. Alot of people whined for OF back because they don't understand why NF was implemented in the first place. Implementing OF would be difficult because its a controversial issue, we don't have all of the information anymore, and there are some fairly huge balance issues [that were fixed in NF] that would need to be addressed. Addressing such issues isn't black and white, what one person believes to be the correct implementation another person would disagree with entirely.

KXT wrote:You have nothing but speculation and opinion as a basis of 'more people will join Uth if we switch to OF'. Origins being cancelled is probably due to their polls showing there just wasn't enough people interested. No where near 70% of the people who wanted to play Origins would make their way to Uthgard, not everyone plays freeshards, most people are skeptical of them.

Perhaps agramon being overcrowded at peak action has more to do with the camps than the map itself [perhaps disable camp port during peak hours, I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of change to keep both peak hours and off hours a healthy rvr format]. With a larger map rvr would completely die anytime other than peak hours, its hard enough to get a fight during off-hours as is, a larger map would only make that worse.

OF era was not fun because people were 'gimp', my point was more so that in general fighting weaker characters and group setups was in general more fun in the pug environment, because everyone was a pug. Alot of people whined for OF back because they don't understand why NF was implemented in the first place. Implementing OF would be difficult because its a controversial issue, we don't have all of the information anymore, and there are some fairly huge balance issues [that were fixed in NF] that would need to be addressed. Addressing such issues isn't black and white, what one person believes to be the correct implementation another person would disagree with entirely.

There were no balance issues caused by OF on Yggdrasil. Don't make it look worse than it is, because really, that's what you're doing here.

With a completely new larger RvR map, RvR would die yes, because nobody would know where to go to find action. Totally different story in OF tho, if you want action, go to emain, it's a known fact troughout every nonPvP DAoC server around back in the days, I'm sure people will find their way once more.
Again u're making OF look way worse than it would be.

I'm done discussing with you tbh, you just keep repeating urself .

I only repeat myself because you ignore my arguments and try to pass it off as 'making it look worse than it is'. OF is not the end all solution to every problem that you think it is.

KXT wrote:I only repeat myself because you ignore my arguments and try to pass it off as 'making it look worse than it is'. OF is not the end all solution to every problem that you think it is.

It's because you are mate, you're picturing 'fairly huge' issues that aren't even there.

the main problem would still be designing the stuff... yeah the zones still might be somewhere in the files but still:

- they need to be populated with mobs
- staff will have to figure out whether to set special teleport points, horse routes, all that stuff over again
- many people are actually happy with NF, just not with agramon

after all, its a decision staff has to make and to be honest: i think it's worth more if exisiting issues are getting fixed/improved (siege weapons, rp/sickness, MARKET SYSTEM...)

agreed and tbh I think this topic has been discussed - wont see any changes on this part unless staff decides they want a huge workload and a huge risk/chance redoing a big part of uthgard end game

I say, let's make a poll, just to know what the whole Uthgard population thinks about that (and let know your mates in the game, cause most people dont visit the forums).

Phileas wrote:- they need to be populated with mobs
- staff will have to figure out whether to set special teleport points, horse routes, all that stuff over again
- many people are actually happy with NF, just not with agramon

No special teleports, just open the Borderkeeps and let the pad teleporter port you to whatever foreign RvR zone you want.

No horse routes, no other stuff, it's OF.


Well I find a poll a good idea, however u need to do it INGAME, not on the forums, hardly I dno 20-30% of the active players even looks at these forums, let alone the english forum in specific.

Put up the poll ingame for about a week, maybe 2 and let everyone (IP) vote once and you should have a decent view.

A poll is senseless. Most players always vote for a change to see whether the outcome will be better. Don't forget with every change in such scale we have a LOT of work to do. For NF for example the whole work for NF/Keeps would be for the trash bin.

You cant argue with zarkor and those alike him, 50% of this topic posts are his, and he will always find ways to proove and try to convince everyone that his way is the best.

Dont be fooled by 4-5 forumers that post all day long trying to reach their goal.