Both, Alb and Hib have got the possibility to setup nice caster-groups and especially the implementation of pets and pet-abilities has caused an increase of casters. Yet, Albs and Hibs simply seem not even try to run castersetups in high-lvl RvR even though a few guilds have already shown that it is possible to run succesful caster-groups.

Force gave a good example on how to address charging tanks. It is all a matter of practice and as long as you try to become better with a certain group-setup, you most certainly will become so. The point is ... playing a caster in DAoC is by far more challenging, but if mastered they obviously rock

@Toblerone: TrippleWield using Firbolg BMs should be able to deal equal dmg. However, the dual-weapon specializations do not use the same mechanics and all three have it's pros and cons. But it's easier to whine, isn't it?

Neju wrote:

Force wrote:

Hedra wrote:They have better speed. And if the caster keeps running and let the zerks do backchains he's even more sure to die.

No they don't. And pre-kite means moving away before they are in melee range.

yes because bards never change to endurance in a fight


albs always run with a minstrel

We are talking about zerkers charging in on inc and wtf killing everyone in 15 seconds. If your bard is putting up endo before inc then you deserve to die.

Mids don't always run skalds. Most the groups I am in don't have one.

@ Hedra
Wardens are op in therms of block and parry,they should decrease cause of higher WS, and they block too much anyway for a class with no shield spec.

@ Toblerone
A zerker hiting for 200 mainh +190 crit in vendo mode is powerfull i know, but thats what berseker stands for.
Mid having celerity ..we talked before ,its the realm and if base dmg remains the same and style dmg is the only one that gets reduced under the effects of celerity ofc the diference of dmg will apear compared with other realms.
Two bm s will do the same now on live where hibs have celerity also yet is post patch 1.80 . If a zerker goes vendo mode he can still crit from 1% to 100% , a bm using triple wield and geting a high crit up to 50% can outdmg a zerker easily .

I laugh when i see albs and hibs complain about bm/merc dmg.. i laugh cause they spec 42 shield , 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon either slash /blads etc.. and they dont realize that you loose base dmg if u r not 50+16 slash/blades.Using cd/dw styles on spec 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon will give you max style dmg but u will have the base dmg of 51 composite weapon, beeing 50+16 dw/cd and 50+16 weapon blades/slash will give you best style dmg and highest base dmg you can have for rr6 .
You gimp yourselfes and then come qq ing.

Glacius wrote:
I laugh when i see albs and hibs complain about bm/merc dmg.. i laugh cause they spec 42 shield , 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon either slash /blads etc.. and they dont realize that you loose base dmg if u r not 50+16 slash/blades.Using cd/dw styles on spec 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon will give you max style dmg but u will have the base dmg of 51 composite weapon, beeing 50+16 dw/cd and 50+16 weapon blades/slash will give you best style dmg and highest base dmg you can have for rr6 .
You gimp yourselfes and then come qq ing.

damn it's too big to put into a sig as quote

Force wrote:

Hedra wrote:They have better speed. And if the caster keeps running and let the zerks do backchains he's even more sure to die.

No they don't. And pre-kite means moving away before they are in melee range.

I play alb and they have better speed. I know what is prekiting, but it doesn't work that well when enemies are faster than you.

I laugh when i see albs and hibs complain about bm/merc dmg.. i laugh cause they spec 42 shield , 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon either slash /blads etc.. and they dont realize that you loose base dmg if u r not 50+16 slash/blades.Using cd/dw styles on spec 50+ 16 dw/cd ,and 35+16 weapon will give you max style dmg but u will have the base dmg of 51 composite weapon, beeing 50+16 dw/cd and 50+16 weapon blades/slash will give you best style dmg and highest base dmg you can have for rr6 .
You gimp yourselfes and then come qq ing.

I don't complain about merc or bm damage. Their damage are allright imo, even with shield spec. But that won't change the stupidly high damage spikes zerks can do leading to freewin instantkill on some incs by simply using anytimers.

Hedra wrote:I play alb and they have better speed. I know what is prekiting, but it doesn't work that well when enemies are faster than you.

Is your sorc not pulling the other group out of speed on inc with bolt range mezz? Just because you never group with a minstrel does not mean alb doesn't have access to the exact same speed as mid. If you grouped a minstrel you'd also get SoS, which would mean even your sorc could pre-kite the charge tanks. But most the time they'll probably go straight for your thuergist. Seems like every thuergist I see has PD5, and his own person paladin guard bot. If you pre-kite on speed keeping 2K range for petting, PD, guard, BOF, DI, all combined with insta heals, heal love patch greater heals etc etc you really should be able to survive the easiest tank to kill in the game charging at your back lines. srsly.

mids just have more skill

Instants and greater heal indeed help a lot in some situations

Neju wrote:mids just have more skill

don't you get tired of the same old canned response?

Sethor wrote:Both, Alb and Hib have got the possibility to setup nice caster-groups and especially the implementation of pets and pet-abilities has caused an increase of casters. Yet, Albs and Hibs simply seem not even try to run castersetups in high-lvl RvR even though a few guilds have already shown that it is possible to run succesful caster-groups.

Force gave a good example on how to address charging tanks. It is all a matter of practice and as long as you try to become better with a certain group-setup, you most certainly will become so. The point is ... playing a caster in DAoC is by far more challenging, but if mastered they obviously rock

@Toblerone: TrippleWield using Firbolg BMs should be able to deal equal dmg. However, the dual-weapon specializations do not use the same mechanics and all three have it's pros and cons. But it's easier to whine, isn't it?

Ignorance is bliss, and your post proves it.

Implementation of pets ? Lol ? Which ones ? The only good ones in hib and alb, the underhill zealot and jade simulacrom are both still broken. Sorc charm is still broken, so is mentalist one which breaks randomly. Pets do miserable damage are only used for interrupting, if they do that at all.
Oh well, SM has their immortal intercept pet, that means everything is okay, right ?

What guilds exactly have shown successful mage play ? On alb KT runs the most mages, and it's very rarely a full mage group. At least 2 tanks+paladin 98% of the time. Hib ones ? In all my years on uthgard I have never seen a single successful hib caster group

Mage groups don't work on uthgard regardless of how much you try to convince yourself they do because they beat the occassional pug here and then.

Lastly, BMs will never come close to zerkers when it comes to damage, not even being firbolgs with triple wield. They are the best hibernia has to offer but still far inferior damage dealers compared to their counterparts from other realms.

Force's example is nothing but raw theorycraft coming from someone who obviously has very little experience in playing a mage on uthgard. Prekite and stick the charge tanks with your own tanks ? Hope that the enemy support is completely clueless or afk ? Yeah, great example. It works on live where you had speedwarps, or mages who cast quicker with less resisted spells. Yeah nice to know he's familiar with the term "prekiting", too bad he's also unfamiliar with the fact of how terribly hard that is to execute on uthgard.

Hedra to be honest. Berzerkers, Blademasters and Mercenaries are almost en par. If 3 Zerkers focus on one target it is just obvious that the target will most likely instantly die. In rare cases even DivineIntervention is not able to trigger that quickly. However, the same goes for 3 Blademasters, 3 Mercenaries, 3 Warriors or 3 whateverDPS classes. If those charge/focus a single target (most likely casters first), the target is doomed to die. The only possibility to prevent death is to be smart and run on INCs if you're playing a squishy char.

Last but not least I second Force: Get a Minstrel, get SoS and save the cheerleader

Sethor wrote:Hedra to be honest. Berzerkers, Blademasters and Mercenaries are almost en par. If 3 Zerkers focus on one target it is just obvious that the target will most likely instantly die. In rare cases even DivineIntervention is not able to trigger that quickly. However, the same goes for 3 Blademasters, 3 Mercenaries, 3 Warriors or 3 whateverDPS classes. If those charge/focus a single target (most likely casters first), the target is doomed to die. The only possibility to prevent death is to be smart and run on INCs if you're playing a squishy char.

I have played cleric, aughealer and druid and i can tell you - that is not the case

Toblerone wrote:
Force's example is nothing but raw theorycraft coming from someone who obviously has very little experience in playing a mage on uthgard. Prekite and stick the charge tanks with your own tanks ? Hope that the enemy support is completely clueless or afk ? Yeah, great example. It works on live where you had speedwarps, or mages who cast quicker with less resisted spells. Yeah nice to know he's familiar with the term "prekiting", too bad he's also unfamiliar with the fact of how terribly hard that is to execute on uthgard.

I am all for bringing balance to the server through Old RAs which eliminate the gap between casters and tanks. But don't tell me that 3 zerkers can just insta kill your group in 15 seconds. Pre kiting isn't that tough, and while you might not win the fight, you really have no escuse for dieing in 15 seconds to 3 charge tanks. I know how much you love argumentum ad hominem Toblerone but you don't need to play a caster to RR8 on this exact server to know how to avoid charge tanks on inc.

You don't need a rr8 mage, but you do need some experience on the matter. You have absolutely none which you show with every post regarding realms or classes other than your own.

I'd love to see you play a mage and prekite on every inc Feel free to prove how easy it is, until then having played every single hib and alb mage so far in various setups I am not convinced that it's as easy as you claim.

Wow, you read pre kite 3 vendoed zerkers as "pre kite every inc"...reading comprehension ftl.


EDIT: there used to be some frapse with my playing thuerg in it floating around the internets, but chooch took down his site, so its gone forever. Maybe Ill make some here on one of my guildies RMs or something, just for you Toblerone.