@Genjiro

i think you guys should fix guard spawn bug asap and then we can discuss what is optimal and rewarding enough for keep taking. as of now, we all know that with non-stop guard spam - NOTHING is rewarding is enough so your examples for level 1 or 5 keeps does not make us happy at all.

renaris few days ago, was spamming red guards almost nonstop, 6-7 at a time and even purples in between. you say correct way is not to give rps for the keep? non-stop guard spawn is also NOT CORRECT.

if you so much about correctness, then remove rps for keeps and we'll find out later what the result of this action is.

thank you for reply but we want to see things moving not just in words.

oh and i recommend to everyone - mids/albs/hibs - do not claim your keeps because if you don't and keep it at level 1, no one will care taking it for mere 100 rps. yes, you heard me right. why claim and upgrade if opposite will benefit the realm more?

tyvm

Rp reward is too low, the system was implemented to help casuals join a zerg and get some rps. 100-200 rps is literally nothing, and if to get any rps you have to run less groups with some organization and also exclude people at the same time, there is nothing casual about that. I don't understand why gm is supporting this system when it's clearly not well thought out, as again the only ones for whom it might be worth it, are organized keep taking forces that impose a member's cap ( doesnt help casuals). A lot of devs/gms mention about their lack of time to invest on the server, what if they tried to get some rps , by playing casually and keep raiding?. Would it be worth their time? Nope.

@Genjiro
Its quite obvious how XP and RP reward work and the logical step is to implement keep rewards in the exact same way. Except the way XP and RP rewards work is a major part of the population decline. Breaking it down you get rewarded for building smaller highly professional groups and not invite anyone to your group that won't increase the reward per member.
Thats okay in some way, it certainly is for highly competitive 8vs8, but where is the alternative for casual players? If you can get into decent XP groups on a regular basis you can reach 50 quite easily. If you can't and need to play solo, it will take forever. If you can get into decent RvR groups, you can make RP fairly easily. If you can't... well... you see my point.

In XP we need mechanics to help casual and solo players feel rewarded, even if they can't find great groups or have several hours at a time.

In RvR we need a mechanic to keep people engaged and reward them for meaningful gameplay, so they can progress and not feel like unwanted and uninvited baggage or cannon fodder.

I proposed keep warfare for that matter, because it fits well with the RvR theme of DAoC. To make keep warfare something rewarding and inviting even for casuals, there need to be incentives to group together, no matter if a character is a perfect group fit. Daily tasks for keep raids would achieve that goal, because the number of RPs for keeps per day would be limited (thus not creating an environment where people do nothing else but raid keeps) and it wouldnt matter if you group up with few or a lot of people, therefore making the entrance into a keep raid easy.
Furthermore to make it challenging, interesting, fun and risky you can not only incentivise attackers but also defenders. Ideally in a way that will not only reward pro groups but also a lonesome casual. Thats why I am so adamant about the ability to log out characters in keeps and log them back in, when it gets under attack, so you can try help defending. That would offer an extra reward and create real challenging RvR fights. No two keep raids will be the same, if you have actual defenders.

Have to agree with Tree,

i also understand your point of implementing the system as it is, a higher challenge will result in a higher reward, but imho this won't fit into DAoC keep warfare and you caused more harm than benefit by implementing it the way you did. You actually brought the 8vs8 "don't add" attitude to keep raids we already see more set groups of 8-16 players raiding (what is not bad at all), but casuals are less likely welcome to join. There is less information spread about upcoming keep raids and ppl tend to not open any public BGs and invite casual players to join them.

A fixed ammount of RP depending on keep/door level no matter how many players attack would be fine, it won't have to be a high ammount and it won't have any impact on social RvR aspects.

I also agree with vadox, the crazy guard spawn is more of an issue than trying to get the 8mans into keep warfare by implementing a progressive bonus RP system (favoring strong groups). The fast guard spawn and the fact they respawn all at the same time is killing the fun while raiding, if there are defenders inside a keep the respawn will put them into heavy advantage and you most likely wipe.

Genjiro wrote:Working right would be no RPs for a keep as for patch 1.65

Thanks for response Genjiro and answering my questions, i appreciate it.
I try not to let me subjugated myself for a dogma and all i ever wanted is a harmonic and tuned DaoC experience.
So in clear letter´s, i don´t care for patch-points as a fixed target forever, of course as an alignment its great, but every patchpoint created the need of development, so why hold on it?
Specially a Patch-Point with proven broken (and copied ) RA´s and Class-abilitys.

Have a nice day folks and enjoy the sun

Getting zerged together - 3 groups of mids including level 40s, running for almost 2 hours taking 3 keeps to open DF (@Abydos) - getting 1.5k rps for all that - NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Doing the same thing with one group is impossible because of the nonstop guard spam - spamming 10+ guards at the same time every 4-5 minutes - NOT ACCEPTABLE

keep warfare is bugged. thank you for introducing RPs for taking keeps but that is a monkey help, imo.
as i said in previous post, an idea would be to give 1k rp minimum + bonus for contribution. nothing was done regarding rps and nothing was done regarding BUG in guard spawn.

no more keep taking for us unless this is fixed. you want casuals to go out there? this has to be addressed asap.

Taking keeps is not a replacement for killing players in RvR. Its not intended to farm RP by taking keeps all the time. The reasons why you want to claim keeps should be different than to gather RP by doing it.

Btw the RP you get has special rules. Up to 16 players see no reduction to the RP reward given out. Its not splitted. With more players the RP reward diminishes a bit. In no way are the same rules applied as its used in standard XP/RP splitting in groups. Reading through some posts here gave me the impression some think this way.

I would ask the following question: What was the reason you actually decided to give RPs for keeps?

I'd say that being rewarded 100 RPs for a keep take is almost the same as being rewarded no RPs for a keep take. I can speak personally that it isn't going to get me to take a keep any more than I did before the reward. 500 is a little better, and I can see that being worth it if no action is happening, to potentially stir up some more action as well, as a result.

The biggest most useful change I think would be RPs for keep defense for sure. Then the RPs would start rolling in for both sides, attackers and defenders (at least that would be the plan, but nothing goes according to plan).

Blue wrote:Taking keeps is not a replacement for killing players in RvR. Its not intended to farm RP by taking keeps all the time. The reasons why you want to claim keeps should be different than to gather RP by doing it.

Btw the RP you get has special rules. Up to 16 players see no reduction to the RP reward given out. Its not splitted. With more players the RP reward diminishes a bit. In no way are the same rules applied as its used in standard XP/RP splitting in groups. Reading through some posts here gave me the impression some think this way.

Blue & @Uthgard staff - players are intelligent beings, can we please stop the "spinning" and enter the no spin zone for once? You were not planning to give rps for keeps initially telling us reasons why, now you giving us rps and now you giving other reasons of why certain things working certain way when players comment on technicalities not being right or bugged.

Severian asked a very direct and a perfect question: if you are giving us reasons of low rps for keep taking and other false logic in player's negativity toward how keep warfare is being implemented - why you even gave us rps in a first place? Maybe stop defending current system and just remove it?

Player population is going down. Imo, you were hoping to stop the bleeding by introducing something to casual community to have fun with. Well, the current system does not help the casual community. We had 3 groups of mids yesterday running alliance raid retaking keeps. Realm pride, you know, that what it used to be called. We were happy bunch till we got 400 rps for taking a keep that had a nonstop spam, using 2 rams, probably would be insanely hard for one group to do this and so on. Whatever logic and formulas you are using and trying to shove down our throats does not have merit. If you go take keep as a realm with 300 players, each one will get 1 RP?! The system is not working. Fix the guard spam please asap, let one group be able to take a keep and we'll re evaluate the keep warfare.

Taking keeps with the current crazy guard spawn is very hard. It's probably difficult to actually make the guard repop act like it should? OK, then DON't change the guard repop... Change what the players THINK about guard repop! Give us guard kill tasks and we'll welcome the extra guards! Or just add the guard kill RPs into the keep take pool. If the crazy guard spawn makes it harder to take a keep but it also makes it more rewarding... it's a win / win.

Blue wrote:Taking keeps is not a replacement for killing players in RvR.(1) Its not intended to farm RP by taking keeps all the time.(2) The reasons why you want to claim keeps should be different than to gather RP by doing it.(3)

(4) Btw the RP you get has special rules. Up to 16 players see no reduction to the RP reward given out. Its not splitted. With more players the RP reward diminishes a bit. In no way are the same rules applied as its used in standard XP/RP splitting in groups. Reading through some posts here gave me the impression some think this way.

Hello Blue

(1)
Taking keeps is RVR, nothing else. And for RvR Players get realmpoint in this game usually. Easy as hell

(2)
Its not intended? Well, i think its just the interpretation of the Uthgard-staff and not a official DaoC rule. Why do you not allowing low RR to raise their RR to fight and compete the High-RR groups? Why do you prefer a low population of high RR and dont want a big population with mixed RR? Really, sometimes i think even i know i am wrong, the staff master-minds get paid with banana´s... When a player is RR 4L0 and want to get 4L1, he need to farm 24 keeps, when every keep spend 1k rp. So this player need to farm more keeps as available to raid. I cannot get your point.

(3)So the staff want to judge about the reasons for rvr and keepraiding and want to complicate RvR?
Mission accomplished Blue /clap

How about to set the Players free and let them doing what they want to determine the reasons why Player player this awesome game? Is this for real your claim?

(4) Thanks for enlightenment Blue

Blue wrote:Taking keeps is not a replacement for killing players in RvR. Its not intended to farm RP by taking keeps all the time. The reasons why you want to claim keeps should be different than to gather RP by doing it.

Btw the RP you get has special rules. Up to 16 players see no reduction to the RP reward given out. Its not splitted. With more players the RP reward diminishes a bit. In no way are the same rules applied as its used in standard XP/RP splitting in groups. Reading through some posts here gave me the impression some think this way.

Why would anyone take keeps then? Rp gain is super low, df bonuses are not enough, keep bonuses are ok but mounting a defence to retain the bonuses is not possible very often, u cant create a group/zerg to defend in time in most of the cases which is a deterrant to taking keeps on other frontiers. What are those other mysterious reasons to take keeps?

As for how rp gain works specifically, we only know what we see.Raiding keeps with a keep taking zerg nets you 100-300 rps /keep, which is downright insulting. If someone wants to run optimized keep taking forces with a cap of 16 people and moving back and forth with rams, he has enough time/dedication to run an 8-man instead and be alot more efficient in farming rps. The above 16 -man penalty on rps is only hurting casuals , and I assume u implemented rp gains for keeps for that part of the community, for people with little time who want to participate in rvr and feel rewarded. Would YOU feel rewarded raiding a keep for 100 rps??

I would simply add flat 100rps to everyone that is raidin the keep. So you will get at least ~200rps, no matter what lvl keep/doors are or how many people are raiding. So the calc would always be 100rps + part of keep rp-pool (as it is now). For me this would be a good compromise.

Vote for +100rps keepraid-flatrate :>

Keep rps helps new chars to get the first realmpoints (like det, purge or class-specific ras), so that they can get more competitive in the beginning. The higher you get in rrs the less keep-rps matter. If you are low-rr, you will ganked a lot (i don't blame that, this is normal). Do you really think, keep-rps will hold back people from rvr? I think the opposit will happen.

Edit: Your suggestion leads to less dynamic in frontier zones and thats always bad.

i would have liked a system that rewards lower RRs and encourages lower RRs to venture into the frontier...

something like

rr1 = 1000 rps
rr2 = 900 rps
rr3 = 700 rps ...
rr10 = 0 rps

Keeps levels can detmine different bonuses:

lvl 10 keep = 100% bonus to xp/rp in that area
lvl 9 keep = 90% bonus in that area
--
lvl 1 keep = 10% bonus in that area
unclaimed = 0