Kha wrote:

Vashna wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:I m doing full bufed 1900+ WS something like 330 ~ 350 dmg on casters non Phisical defense with cripling blow and close to 400-410 dmg with back styles .. its laughable .

I'm getting hit for 300-350 from skalds as a caster. All good i guess !

Not sure,
Skald seems to be factor 19 in damage table (like paladin)
Savage is 20 (for example)
Armsman is supposed to be 22.
(Since warrior is supposed to be 23 should be the one you compare with instead of skald. At the same weapon speed)

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Table

I use dmg table class factors as 2.1 , 2.2 and so on ..as you can see here from something i posted 7 years ago .

How Weaponskill is Generated:

There are 2 main schools of thought in regard to the calculation of weaponskill. These formulas are derived from cpt_blood at critshot.com and the other is the one designed by keiferhub to use in haldaars calculator. Cpt_blood's calculation seems to not account for the fact that weapon spec and item/realm rank spec give different amounts of weaponskill per point. Haldar's seems to account for this with a specific coeficient (m)



Formula 1.

Keiferhubs (used in haldar's calc)

WS = [(stat-50) * facteur_classe + base_classe] * [1 + (lvl_spe * 1 + rank bonus_objet * 1 + m) / 100];


# Stat: Stat used for basing damage. str/Dex based weapon specs are flexible, onehanded thrust, midgard spears etc.
For str/dex based weapons the calculation for stat is stat = (str + dex) / 2. All other weapons use dex or str only.

# lvl_spé ': weapon spec of the player

# rank : Realm rank

# bonus_objet : skill bonus from items

# facteur_classe Class factor or the class multiplier for each class, 2.3 for warrior, 2,2 for other tanks, etc.

# base_classe = 200 x facteur_classe. (maybe base class is the value for player level where 200 is a level 50 ??)

# m = 1.56 + bonus_objet / 70




Formula 2.

Thought to be derived from cpt_blood at critshot.com


WS = Coef x lvl x (1 + lvl_spé_arme / 100) x (1 + STAT / 150) x (1 + bonus_arme / 80)


# COEF: Coefficient - depends on the class. Similar to class factor.

# lvl : level of the character.

# lvl_spé_arme Weapon Spec plus realm rank spec

# STAT : Stat used for basing damage. str/Dex based weapon specs are flexible, onehanded thrust, midgard spears etc.
For str/dex based weapons the calculation for stat is stat = (str + dex) / 2. All other weapons use dex or str only.

# Bonus_arme : Spec bonus from items.




To regress a class coeficient one would do the following:

Coef = WS / (lvl x (1 + lvl_arme / 100) x (1 + STAT/150) x (1 + bonus_arme / 80))

Uthgard uses these formulars? DO you know that? And if so, why? It has been shown on live that weapon skill is NOT exactly the ingame damage calculation (for example Item bonus is represented stronger in weapon skill than for actual calculation), same counts for AF (especially if you count in spec AF).

To your data:
First of all you claim to have 44 pole skill, are rr3 and have +11 item bonus but how on earth do you get 1913 weapon skill with only 344 Strength? Your weapon skill should be 1792-1799
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... lator.html
http://tool.excidio.net/weaponskill.htm

Then in your first post you talk about hitting sudded with AF635. Now was that studded or not maybe chain? (AF100 chain is 635). Later on you suddenly hit studded with 582 AF and your weapon skill has changed as well.

Please, before you make a tracker, get your research data properly together. As it is now, I can't really take this post seriously. If it is true, that damage is not comparable through the realms, then you will need to hit a caster and find someone to show the damage is different in the other realms.

I really hope Uthgard use the formula Vanesyra has created long ago, which is pretty acurate and was directly tested on live.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/melee ... 452406879/
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

It's rather live like, but slightly returns too high damage values (maybe 6%).

last but not least, a reason why said Berserker can do so much more damage
-50 skill + rr difference => 5% two hand bonus difference
-hammer vs. reinforced gives -5% (it's an old patch is it even still -10%?) resist debuff to the target => 7% more damage
-40 points more strength (with Troll, aug str3, even more with master of the art on shaman)
-relic bonus

Lasle wrote:Uthgard uses these formulars? DO you know that? And if so, why? It has been shown on live that weapon skill is NOT exactly the ingame damage calculation (for example Item bonus is represented stronger in weapon skill than for actual calculation), same counts for AF (especially if you count in spec AF).

To your data:
First of all you claim to have 44 pole skill, are rr3 and have +11 item bonus but how on earth do you get 1913 weapon skill with only 344 Strength? Your weapon skill should be 1792-1799
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... lator.html
http://tool.excidio.net/weaponskill.htm

Then in your first post you talk about hitting sudded with AF635. Now was that studded or not maybe chain? (AF100 chain is 635). Later on you suddenly hit studded with 582 AF and your weapon skill has changed as well.

Please, before you make a tracker, get your research data properly together. As it is now, I can't really take this post seriously. If it is true, that damage is not comparable through the realms, then you will need to hit a caster and find someone to show the damage is different in the other realms.

I really hope Uthgard use the formula Vanesyra has created long ago, which is pretty acurate and was directly tested on live.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/melee ... 452406879/
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

It's rather live like, but slightly returns too high damage values (maybe 6%).

last but not least, a reason why said Berserker can do so much more damage
-50 skill + rr difference => 5% two hand bonus difference
-hammer vs. reinforced gives -5% (it's an old patch is it even still -10%?) resist debuff to the target => 7% more damage
-40 points more strength (with Troll, aug str3, even more with master of the art on shaman)
-relic bonus

This is not live , Uthgard is using Weapon Skil in formulas while Live DAOC doesnt if you dont know that , i do ! because i was there 6 years ago when we tested them on Uthg 1.0 , yes those formulas were found by Zipitty and Blue has aknowledged them , that is my weapon skill with 44 + 13 pole= 57 pole skill , augm str 3 and whateva bufs i got from clerics when doing my tests ..if u got problems with it .. ask the devs not me , tests i ve done here are on chain armor only in Uthgard , where u saw me showing studded tests? Using the ecuation i ve put all the armour types and listed min and max thats all , , style dmg and other stuff like resists and why studded is weak to crush dmg ..keep it to yourself i said 10 times that i m not interested i talk about total unstyled dmg here, also those formula s are not as exact as what we have now , and they r about cap dmg and styled dmg which uses atack speed completelly irelevant .

MotaroReloaded wrote:

Lasle wrote:Uthgard uses these formulars? DO you know that? And if so, why? It has been shown on live that weapon skill is NOT exactly the ingame damage calculation (for example Item bonus is represented stronger in weapon skill than for actual calculation), same counts for AF (especially if you count in spec AF).

To your data:
First of all you claim to have 44 pole skill, are rr3 and have +11 item bonus but how on earth do you get 1913 weapon skill with only 344 Strength? Your weapon skill should be 1792-1799
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... lator.html
http://tool.excidio.net/weaponskill.htm

Then in your first post you talk about hitting sudded with AF635. Now was that studded or not maybe chain? (AF100 chain is 635). Later on you suddenly hit studded with 582 AF and your weapon skill has changed as well.

Please, before you make a tracker, get your research data properly together. As it is now, I can't really take this post seriously. If it is true, that damage is not comparable through the realms, then you will need to hit a caster and find someone to show the damage is different in the other realms.

I really hope Uthgard use the formula Vanesyra has created long ago, which is pretty acurate and was directly tested on live.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/melee ... 452406879/
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

It's rather live like, but slightly returns too high damage values (maybe 6%).

last but not least, a reason why said Berserker can do so much more damage
-50 skill + rr difference => 5% two hand bonus difference
-hammer vs. reinforced gives -5% (it's an old patch is it even still -10%?) resist debuff to the target => 7% more damage
-40 points more strength (with Troll, aug str3, even more with master of the art on shaman)
-relic bonus

This is not live , Uthgard is using Weapon Skil in formulas while Live DAOC doesnt if you dont know that , i do ! because i was there 6 years ago when we tested them on Uthg 1.0 , yes those formulas were found by Zipitty and Blue has aknowledged them , that is my weapon skill with 44 + 13 pole= 57 pole skill , augm str 3 and whateva bufs i got from clerics when doing my tests ..if u got problems with it .. ask the devs not me , tests i ve done here are on chain armor only in Uthgard , where u saw me showing studded tests? Using the ecuation i ve put all the armour types and listed min and max thats all , , style dmg and other stuff like resists and why studded is weak to crush dmg ..keep it to yourself i said 10 times that i m not interested i talk about total unstyled dmg here, also those formula s are not as exact as what we have now , and they r about cap dmg and styled dmg which uses atack speed completelly irelevant .

Pretty sure daoc has always used weaponskill to influence damage even on live.

When battler was first introduced (pre nerfed) the proc on it (not the /use but the proc itself) was 50% increase to weaponskill. This was causing 2h tanks, specifically heroes, to hit consistantly for over 1k damage with a crit. I remember this happening and happening frequently, because I played a caster during early TOA and knew that if I ate a mez of any type (insta or casted) on inc, I was promptly 2 shotted by a 2hero train.

for reference to what I was talking about:

warrior hitting a caster with battler proc up (pre nerf) with northern lights side style (his weaponskill was likely around the 2.5-3k ballpark with the proc up):

https://youtu.be/jSoifK5RUdE?t=265

that is (i believe) an 836 damage hit with a crit, but damn near a 1shot against a fully buffed caster with just a side style.

aylictal wrote:for reference to what I was talking about:

warrior hitting a caster with battler proc up (pre nerf) with northern lights side style (his weaponskill was likely around the 2.5-3k ballpark with the proc up):

https://youtu.be/jSoifK5RUdE?t=265

that is (i believe) an 836 damage hit with a crit, but damn near a 1shot against a fully buffed caster with just a side style.

Good hit yes ..btw ve never seen 3000 Weapon skill in daoc but if that was Battler proc it might , had a different proc when i ve had it ..anyway , i cant see his WS but i asume yes its over 2000 , and TOA times had NF RA s which gave phisical defence to casters , i know before PD times my arms was doing the dmg i mentioned above .. what i hit here fully buffed seems like i m hiting PD4 or PD 5 casters except i dont have 400(-400) ..i m doing 370(-130 ) which is not the same ..ist is a 800 total dmg hit vs 50% resists and second is a 500 total dmg hit vs 26% resist, and i m not talking about super items with procs n stuff , good oll clasic daoc .

battler when it first came out was 50% weaponskill buff on proc, but was nerfed to 10% around when NF hit, probably because of how grossly it affected dps.

MotaroReloaded wrote:

Lasle wrote:Uthgard uses these formulars? DO you know that? And if so, why? It has been shown on live that weapon skill is NOT exactly the ingame damage calculation (for example Item bonus is represented stronger in weapon skill than for actual calculation), same counts for AF (especially if you count in spec AF).

To your data:
First of all you claim to have 44 pole skill, are rr3 and have +11 item bonus but how on earth do you get 1913 weapon skill with only 344 Strength? Your weapon skill should be 1792-1799
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... lator.html
http://tool.excidio.net/weaponskill.htm

Then in your first post you talk about hitting sudded with AF635. Now was that studded or not maybe chain? (AF100 chain is 635). Later on you suddenly hit studded with 582 AF and your weapon skill has changed as well.

Please, before you make a tracker, get your research data properly together. As it is now, I can't really take this post seriously. If it is true, that damage is not comparable through the realms, then you will need to hit a caster and find someone to show the damage is different in the other realms.

I really hope Uthgard use the formula Vanesyra has created long ago, which is pretty acurate and was directly tested on live.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/melee ... 452406879/
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

It's rather live like, but slightly returns too high damage values (maybe 6%).

last but not least, a reason why said Berserker can do so much more damage
-50 skill + rr difference => 5% two hand bonus difference
-hammer vs. reinforced gives -5% (it's an old patch is it even still -10%?) resist debuff to the target => 7% more damage
-40 points more strength (with Troll, aug str3, even more with master of the art on shaman)
-relic bonus

This is not live , Uthgard is using Weapon Skil in formulas while Live DAOC doesnt if you dont know that , i do ! because i was there 6 years ago when we tested them on Uthg 1.0 , yes those formulas were found by Zipitty and Blue has aknowledged them , that is my weapon skill with 44 + 13 pole= 57 pole skill , augm str 3 and whateva bufs i got from clerics when doing my tests ..if u got problems with it .. ask the devs not me , tests i ve done here are on chain armor only in Uthgard , where u saw me showing studded tests? Using the ecuation i ve put all the armour types and listed min and max thats all , , style dmg and other stuff like resists and why studded is weak to crush dmg ..keep it to yourself i said 10 times that i m not interested i talk about total unstyled dmg here, also those formula s are not as exact as what we have now , and they r about cap dmg and styled dmg which uses atack speed completelly irelevant .

If what you are interested in is cap damage, why are you hitting a yellow con? you can see your damage cap by whacking grey cons around cotswold.

aylictal wrote:
Pretty sure daoc has always used weaponskill to influence damage even on live.

When battler was first introduced (pre nerfed) the proc on it (not the /use but the proc itself) was 50% increase to weaponskill. This was causing 2h tanks, specifically heroes, to hit consistantly for over 1k damage with a crit. I remember this happening and happening frequently, because I played a caster during early TOA and knew that if I ate a mez of any type (insta or casted) on inc, I was promptly 2 shotted by a 2hero train.

every factor that influenced weapon skill also influenced melee damage. However, there was never a formula that could use weapon skill to explain the damage done. In the end, it was very close to the weapon skill formula

"I think i have more or less cracked the melee damage formula... look at http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage for details. one thing is still missing damage variation on high or lower level monsters (but yet i don't care about pve ^^)

Funny is that weapon skill itself is not used (as they told us). But something that is very very close to it.
=> USED_WS = DISPLAYED_WS / 4 / ([STATS / 2] + 75) * ([STATS / 2] + 100)
so your damage should be increasing with USED_WS."
from http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/melee ... 879/page-2

Battler just did increase the weapon table (*1,5 later 1,1) which affects both the ws-formula and damage calculation

MotaroReloaded wrote:... tests i ve done here are on chain armor only in Uthgard , where u saw me showing studded tests?

[/quote]
here you are

MotaroReloaded wrote:….
Two hand dmg : my arms 57 pole spec , 51 composite slash buffed 1918 Weap skill, 5.8 spd pole , effective dps of weap 16.0 VS a cleric 635 AF ,19% absorb did today a number of hits and i found out Min dmg 226 shown 161(-65) and max dmg 316 shown 225(-91)
…
VS chain 27% abs : uthg min 226 dmg | max 316 dmg

"you are a mate" top states 19% bottom 27% absorb

And very interesting actually - so Uthgard is NOT even trying to display the same weapon skill as live ... people, please never ever use the "but it's not 1.65" argument ever again. A nearly perfect accurate melee and cast damage formula was given middle of 2011 and we still use an arbitrary formula today.

Lasle wrote:

MotaroReloaded wrote:... tests i ve done here are on chain armor only in Uthgard , where u saw me showing studded tests?

here you are

MotaroReloaded wrote:….
Two hand dmg : my arms 57 pole spec , 51 composite slash buffed 1918 Weap skill, 5.8 spd pole , effective dps of weap 16.0 VS a cleric 635 AF ,19% absorb did today a number of hits and i found out Min dmg 226 shown 161(-65) and max dmg 316 shown 225(-91)
…
VS chain 27% abs : uthg min 226 dmg | max 316 dmg

"you are a mate" top states 19% bottom 27% absorb

And very interesting actually - so Uthgard is NOT even trying to display the same weapon skill as live ... people, please never ever use the "but it's not 1.65" argument ever again. A nearly perfect accurate melee and cast damage formula was given middle of 2011 and we still use an arbitrary formula today.[/quote]

If you calculate it in the ecuation i used 0.73 for abs , yeah i made a spelling mistake and i ll correct it , i stated in 3 places its VS chain cleric which is 27% abs , he could have just pointed as a mistake i made like you did .
. No one gave any formula anywhere , not that i know of , what we have on uthg is what Zipitty found, PA dmg formula was found by us aswell , Weapon skill is a dmg modifier but what is shown on live doesnt go in calculations for dmg ..they ve said it, while here on Uthg the Weap skill displayed is the same number factored into dmg , we had this discussion 5-6 years ago with Blue as we wanted to know if it can be trusted and used in this ecuation i showed you .

So if it is true that they use weapon skill values to calculate unstyled damage then this is changing ALOT. In the weapon skill formula skill is not capped at 51. This means having a weapon line over 51 composite spec WILL increase the unstyled damage. IT DOES NOT on live and that is a big change - if it's true. It also means a lot of specs that work on live should not be done on this server, since using Wyrd spec for example will net in less damage.

I'll try to elaborate

Factors that influence unstyled damage on live:
Factors that change the total cap (the glass gets bigger)
-weapon delay (listed speed of the weapon), quality, condition and dps
-two hand bonus (if two handed)
-dps buffs (savage)

Factors that brings your damage closer to the cap (fills the glass)
-weapon stat (str, dex)
-relic/keep bonus
-enemy AF/resists/absorb/absorb buffs
-skill -> [WHICHEVER IS LOWER (Character level or weapon line skill-1) ] vs. level of target

Now the last line is important. On live the formula is designed in a way that if you are level 50 and your target is level 50 then in order to do the maximum damage of 125% base damage (100%-150% damage varriance) you need to have at least 51 spec in the weapon line. HOWEVER, more than 50 does not change anything. Note - this is only true for unstyled damage, style damage does profit from higher skills.

If weapon skill is directly used as a value, that means that unstyled damage WILL increase with weapon over 51 spec - not only style damage. This means a lot of specs should be reconsidered. Infiltrator with 50 weapon using a 50 weapon style should then do much more damage than using a composite weapon spec of 51 and using a 50 CS syle with same growth rate AND his offhand should do more damage.
Normally dual wield offhand weapon gets calculated from base weapon line, if this is true than 50 50 will be the only real damage spec for light tanks. All those split and shield specs are gimping their damage (since the unstyled damage AND the offhand damage are both lower). On live unstyled damage is maxed at 51 composite spec and for style calculation dual wield styles can be used, so that's why it works their. But if it's true that WS is directly calculated for unstyled damage, then well ... wyrd spec is not possible here. And then who knows how albion two hand/pole with double speccing is calculated?

Lasle wrote:So if it is true that they use weapon skill values to calculate unstyled damage then this is changing ALOT. In the weapon skill formula skill is not capped at 51. This means having a weapon line over 51 composite spec WILL increase the unstyled damage. IT DOES NOT on live and that is a big change - if it's true. It also means a lot of specs that work on live should not be done on this server, since using Wyrd spec for example will net in less damage.

I'll try to elaborate

Factors that influence unstyled damage on live:
Factors that change the total cap (the glass gets bigger)
-weapon delay (listed speed of the weapon), quality, condition and dps
-two hand bonus (if two handed)
-dps buffs (savage)

Factors that brings your damage closer to the cap (fills the glass)
-weapon stat (str, dex)
-relic/keep bonus
-enemy AF/resists/absorb/absorb buffs
-skill -> [WHICHEVER IS LOWER (Character level or weapon line skill-1) ] vs. level of target

Now the last line is important. On live the formula is designed in a way that if you are level 50 and your target is level 50 then in order to do the maximum damage of 125% base damage (100%-150% damage varriance) you need to have at least 51 spec in the weapon line. HOWEVER, more than 50 does not change anything. Note - this is only true for unstyled damage, style damage does profit from higher skills.

If weapon skill is directly used as a value, that means that unstyled damage WILL increase with weapon over 51 spec - not only style damage. This means a lot of specs should be reconsidered. Infiltrator with 50 weapon using a 50 weapon style should then do much more damage than using a composite weapon spec of 51 and using a 50 CS syle with same growth rate AND his offhand should do more damage.
Normally dual wield offhand weapon gets calculated from base weapon line, if this is true than 50 50 will be the only real damage spec for light tanks. All those split and shield specs are gimping their damage (since the unstyled damage AND the offhand damage are both lower). On live unstyled damage is maxed at 51 composite spec and for style calculation dual wield styles can be used, so that's why it works their. But if it's true that WS is directly calculated for unstyled damage, then well ... wyrd spec is not possible here. And then who knows how albion two hand/pole with double speccing is calculated?

It was always like that on live aswell from what i remember , a merc who s 35+15 slash and 50+15 DW should use DW styles only if he wants a better style dmg as for unstyled dmg i always believed his dmg its not maxed on both hands and has to be also 50+15 slash , also if he s using slash styles his poor WS from 35+15 will influence his styled dmg yes. I play arms and i m 44 Pole +13 atm and i have 51 composite in slash and thurst but thats ok because my unstyled dmg comes from the pole spec which is linked to WS , style dmg also comes from pole spec, i know DW for merc gives his WS when 2 weps equiped but i know that his off hand dmg is not the same as fully speced in slash aswell.

M8 i think you got that wrong with min and max at least this is what we found out and Zipitty after tests finding all the modifiers .. if u r not 51 composite what we get in this formula 100 % base dmg = Eff DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (1-absorb) * slow weap bonus * SPD * 2h weapon bonus will variate from 25%-125% this number will only gain a bonus of 25% more dmg..but it can fluctuate down aswell , if you are more then your lvl speced then this 100% can variate up to 150% .

I just cant read all this... what i will point out is a highlander arms named Danslief (think korean zerg) hits me for 350-480(obvi. crit) a swing in my chain armor no spec af, so ill ask... sup with the rest of your dmg armsmen and women? Why this dude hit harder than any others ive encountered hes like rr3...

Romps wrote:I just cant read all this... what i will point out is a highlander arms named Danslief (think korean zerg) hits me for 350-480(obvi. crit) a swing in my chain armor no spec af, so ill ask... sup with the rest of your dmg armsmen and women? Why this dude hit harder than any others ive encountered hes like rr3...

Because he s thurst pole not slash like other idiot arms outthere but problem is .. we should be hiting for 500 dmg in chain using backstyles , thats what i was doing on live with mine.


This : Its important to note that for Left Axe, the average damage done by the offhand weapon is apparently determined by the spec in Left Axe, whereas for Celtic Dual and Dual Wield, this average damage is determined by the mainhands weapon spec.

Is from here: http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics ... anics.html

PS If u can write but cant read , i m not gonna asnwer anymore.