ZaiQQ wrote:lol guardmissions. poor mans rp income. Rps you get from killing other players, thats how daoc was is and should be.

meh...its more like the casual player rp income (assuming they aren't stealthers camping mgs in emain + odins). Not everyone runs in a set group; therefore, joining pugs for the usual emain 8v8 gangbang gets them nowhere. Therefore they either have to go to DF, try to small man against stealthers in odin's, or do guard tasks. And to be honest, out of those three terrible options I could never do any of, guard tasks are the most consistent rp. I still don't know why there has been nothing done to help this but woah im soooo out of line for thinking this.

This server is not and never was how DAOC was meant to be. It's so incredibly custom its insane yet mention any change resembling live-live and you are seen by the GMs as some crazy terrorist rebel screaming undiscernable language with a bomb strapped to your chest. I would be surprised if this post doesn't get deleted by GMs within 5 hours.

I dig the idea of changing "Guard-Tasks" to "Keep-Tasks". . .

The flames on the Warmap would actually indicate a group intending to take a keep rather than a tasker.

During the late-night American action I tend to follow the warmaps in hopes to find taskers to slay as the action is very spotty. Sadly in most cases, I find a keep with doors wide open and all the guards and/or archers are dead with no enemies around.

I don't understand the arguments that killing players is more RvR than killing guards.
Both respawn, and equally fast it seems

Killing a fg at your own RR/skill lvl, that is def more challenging than killing guards, but most "RvR" that some here preach as "True RvR", is no way near this. It involves a RR10 guild group rolling down a RR5'ish pug, or a small man, or using MoS-bot to kill stealthers.
And that has the same challenge rank as killing guards.

If you argue that they need to change rp's from realm guard missions, they should hand out 50% rp's for killing someone more than 3 RR below you. And 70% for someone half your RR. ANd zero rp's for a fg killing a solo, with no more than 3 other enemies of same realm within 2000 range.


But I will agree that taking keeps should get you a hell lot more than opening 4 keeps and farming the guards over and over.

Killing guards is not contributing anything to the idea of RvR - and if we have to explain why that is, I don't think we are in the same book, let alone on the same page. It's ridiculous how some players have gotten to high realm ranks by farming yellow mobs.

That being said, I think - and repeating others in this thread - the best solution would be to remove guard tasks and change them to keep tasks (perhaps with a somewhat increased RP payoff). In doing so you still have a way for 'casuals' to go out and get RPs, attract enemy players and contribute something to the greater scheme of things, i.e. opening DF - and eventually weakening the relic keep (should that feature ever come). Moreover, by actually having to raid a keep, the attackers will be around for longer, allowing enemies to actually react in time to get there.

Maybe Blue could comment on whether this is an option the staff is considering.

Sekunda wrote:Killing a fg at your own RR/skill lvl, that is def more challenging than killing guards, but most "RvR" that some here preach as "True RvR", is no way near this. It involves a RR10 guild group rolling down a RR5'ish pug, or a small man, or using MoS-bot to kill stealthers.
And that has the same challenge rank as killing guards.

The high RR group got there somehow, and usually not by farming guards. Your issue is with the underlying principle of a PvP (or RvR) game. The 'better' team wins - be it through zerging or experience and team work. There are obviously situations where this does not apply (FG zerging solos and similar), but these things are allowed within the context of RvR. And if someone has an issue with that, there are two things he/she can do: get a group (or zerg) together or do PvE. This may sound arrogant, but it is at the core of a competetive gaming experience, in which invested time and effort gives you an advantage.

I will hire a Korean to 10L my chars

Really, you are suggesting casual players to do PvE only? Sounds a bit narrow-minded to me.

Lasastard wrote:This may sound arrogant, but it is at the core of a competetive gaming experience, in which invested time and effort gives you an advantage.

I do think it also takes time an effort to grd task...
And I'd prefer PvP any time over PvE when it comes to earning rp's, as PvE is very dull, but that doesn't mean I don't support the option being there.

My problem is not that people think grd tasking gives you to much rp's, but that somehow them raping soloers/small man, or low RR groups is more challenging than grd tasking, because it's not.
If high RR people wants to preach on what is proper RvR and not, they could start of by leaving small man groups alone, and let lower RR groups fight each other in HW/OG, etc... Because if they don't, they just contribute to the problem by pushing them towards tasking for rp's.
Note, that I think high RR groups has every right to do what they want, but so does everyone else.

Having somehow "earned" the right to do so, by being high RR I actually agree upon, but that is because I'm open to all kinds of RvR, I don't believe in codex of playing the "right" way (which is also a crazy comment, as everyone has a view on what is right).


Take an enchanter, menta or animist, how are they to get rp's, if grd tasking is gimped? No group will take them, and if they do the high RR groups will melt their faces when they enter RvR zones.

Juri wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:depends on the level of proness in guardtasikng i would think... open every first gate, relogg after each mission to a char at missi npc to get a new one... i would think 8k rp/h possible with guardtasks (although you are right, never done such and just guessing). While zerging you will never reach more than 6 k rp/h in the long run.

I'm afraid that's fiction... Who would ever want to end up doing guardtasks for hours and hours straight? Even ganking soloers is more remunerative...

There are plenty of ppl doing this kind of guard tasks.. I know many of them in alb and in hib..they do it with fg and sometimes you can see them looking for ppl in /lfg (lf paladin for guard tasks 7/8) a.e.

shade wrote:I will hire a Korean to 10L my chars

Really, you are suggesting casual players to do PvE only? Sounds a bit narrow-minded to me.

No, I am saying that certan 'issues' are a part of RvR (or PvP), and there shouldn't be a way around it - like getting to 11L by mostly ganking yellow mobs. Realm points are a reward for doing, well, RvR - and killing guards to me does not fall into that category. Raiding keeps does and so guard missions should be removed in favor of keep raid missions.

And re: casual players should do PvE: I meant to say that if a casual player cannot compete in Emain, there are ways to deal with that (grouping up, forming a zerg, going to other zones) - and the go-to alternative should not be to do guard missions. It's a PvP game, and if people are not willing to deal with that in some way, they should not be able to progress in this aspect of the game. If they want to fight mobs, that's what PvE is for with all the things you can achieve there. Raiding keeps is at least in line with the core idea of RvR, whereas killing guards and roaming empty keeps is not.

Lasastard wrote:It's a PvP game, and if people are not willing to deal with that in some way, they should not be able to progress in this aspect of the game. If they want to fight mobs, that's what PvE is for with all the things you can achieve there. Raiding keeps is at least in line with the core idea of RvR, whereas killing guards and roaming empty keeps is not.

It's not a PvP game, but PvP is part of the game.
It's not as if you can gain rp's from fighting safely, you actually have to go to an RvR zone, where you risk being attacked.

I don't think any here should try to define what the core idea of RvR is, as we'll end up making personal assumptions based on what we think suits our way of playing.

I personally don't think the core of RvR is roaming the same zone over and over, a zone that has one keep, which hardly ever gets taken, and holds no real value.
Emain is the equivalent of farming grds, yes if you actually face equal RR/skilled groups, the challenge is significantly higher, but often it's 1 group dominating, then logging when the others form 2 fg's.
Then we add the "Don't add other fights" dogma, that I also don't think fits in RvR context.
Let alone that 8 man groups, build out of a cookie-cut concept, really is like playing counterstrike. I agree it's fun, but Realm vs. Realm?


I personally prefer doing PvP, but I also think that anything that draws people to RvR zones, is a bonus, no matter what.

Edit: I do also think that tasking should be the alternative to PvP, not the other way around. So if you can actually gain more rp's from tasking, then the rewards should be lowered.

The core of the game is to defend our realm. By defending the realm, you can get RPs.

- Killing ennemy players gives RPs
- Killing ennemy guards gives RPs
- Taking ennemy keep gives RPs
- Reconnoiting an ennemy area gives RPs

I don't understand what is senseless here O_O

Fabulabelle wrote:The core of the game is to defend our realm. By defending the realm, you can get RPs.

- Killing ennemy players gives RPs
- Killing ennemy guards gives RPs
- Taking ennemy keep gives RPs
- Reconnoiting an ennemy area gives RPs

I don't understand what is senseless here O_O

The problem is that the two things in bold print up there change NOTHING about the tides of war in any way. Reconnoiting least of all, but even keep guards just respawn after a while to be farmed all over again. That's not RvR, that's just PvE in an PvP zone. If you want to give people an alternative to get RP other than actually killing enemy players, than keep raids are the only thing that actually makes sense, since they are tied to Darkness Falls and, eventually, to the relics. Also, you need a group to do them, which is, I think, very much the kind of DAoC that Blue tries to implement here.

With guards you get players like Fulla who are on their second high RR char, farmed to a very large extend on guards. That's just not the point of DAoC and RvR imho..

rps are not the most important point, this server needs active as/gu on pvp.

it needs at least 50 guys on each realm every day at prime time to provide a base for pvp action.

PVP motivation and envy are most important than rps for that.

If you don´t want people to "farm" their realmranks on guards why don´t you just claim a keep and take care of your guards

Lasastard wrote:The problem is that the two things in bold print up there change NOTHING about the tides of war in any way.

Killing each other in Emain changes just as much as farming guards
At least tasking has a chance of brining action away from Emain.

If people gets their char to high RR from grd tasking, I both wish them grats on it, but I also pity them, because damn that must be one bloody boring thing.

I think it's great you think RvR is mainly about PvP, and not grd tasking, and I will agree on it being a lot lot more fun, but it doesn't mean that it's what RvR actually is about