There's always counters for setups, tactics you can use etc.

ZaiQQ wrote:There's always counters for setups, tactics you can use etc.

Of course, we are new, that takes time and we will figure them out. But surviving the first 15 seconds is only an issue on this server, mainly because the server lacks the checks and balances that a live server has when it comes to tanks. With DI3 or BOF2/3 you can do this, hense my point we need RR to have a chance against some of these 3-4 tank groups...which we would not need with OF RAs...we could just simply out play them, the way the game should be

ntc wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:There's always counters for setups, tactics you can use etc.

Of course, we are new, that takes time and we will figure them out. But surviving the first 15 seconds is only an issue on this server, mainly because the server lacks the checks and balances that a live server has when it comes to tanks. With DI3 or BOF2/3 you can do this, hense my point we need RR to have a chance against some of these 3-4 tank groups...which we would not need with OF RAs...we could just simply out play them, the way the game should be

Maybe you just need a better setup and actually know what to do to counter it? Don't need 3x di3 2x bof3 sos3 am3 aotg3 ichor3 to counter it.

ZaiQQ wrote:

ntc wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:There's always counters for setups, tactics you can use etc.

Of course, we are new, that takes time and we will figure them out. But surviving the first 15 seconds is only an issue on this server, mainly because the server lacks the checks and balances that a live server has when it comes to tanks. With DI3 or BOF2/3 you can do this, hense my point we need RR to have a chance against some of these 3-4 tank groups...which we would not need with OF RAs...we could just simply out play them, the way the game should be

Maybe you just need a better setup and actually know what to do to counter it? Don't need 3x di3 2x bof3 sos3 am3 aotg3 ichor3 to counter it.

lol done with you

uthgard rule #1: never discuss with nerds

better try: ok dear sir from the internet, thank you very much

I agree that this is a community problem and not a problem for the GM's. They have made a good server, and with OF maps there is plenty of space to roam to accomodate all sorsts of RR's, size of groups, and set ups. The problem is that most people that casually play this game simple dont want to put in the time and energy for frontier RvR. It is easier and more fun for them to just make a new toon and go threw the BG's again. I dont think getting rid of the BG's does anything. Instead of people taking a toon to 50 and 4L2 instead they will just cap it at whatever RR and at 35 then make another. Same problem, just making people give up on toons sooner.

Zai, you and I agree on alot, and as far as what NTC is saying you couldnt be more right in your assesment. You guys built a bunch of low lvl casters on Mid and pwn'd the good groups in RvR as low RR. NTC, it really is about play style and countering. The difference is, as you pointed out, you are new to the server and are still figuring out what everyone is doing, whereas Zai has been on the server for a VERY long time and the people he plays with dont need to have the most uber RA's to beat a good group. They can do it just like you said, by tactics and strategy. Also NTC, if you played on classic with old RA's at all, you would know that with the pre-requisites it is even more difficult to get the necessary RA's. I think people forget that things like health regen and tireless are no longer free and you have to put points there. Then any good RA has some sort of pre-requisite associated with it. You end up wasting well needed points on things you would normally not every put a point into.

I will say that I disagree with you on the gaurd tasks Zai. I think they should put more stuff in like that. Maybe have solo realm enemy kill tasks, more recon missions, and maybe even tasks for taking keeps. By doing this you get more people out in the RvR zones which means more action. Yah, it might not be in emain, but if people claimed keeps and kept track of them then, for example, if you were out in Emain and you seen over broad that Hibs/Albs/Mids were on some keep you could go and defend or kill. Plus garud tasks give low RR players a chance to go out and earn RR's so they can compete better overall in general RvR. They also help mid to high RR players in supplementing RPS.

I would vote for more task orinted missions and also put in some better rewards for BP's that are non tradeable for example reskins. Those 2 things will put more people in RvR. I 100% guarantee it. I would also agree that a fastere way to get back into the action would help alot as well. Even tho I dont like it since I prefer the ride back out to emain to let my timed RA's reset

But the thing with guardtasks is that for some people its their main rp income, they don't try to do anything else because for some people the guardtasks gives better rp/h, plenty of people who got to high RR by it, and thats wrong.

Trishin wrote:

- Regular zerg events. This could be done by players in each realm, but perhaps better by a GM. The general idea is that e.g. a keep is declared the target and all three realms can fight over it. The winner could get a minor reward, enough to encourage participation, but not too desirable as to lead people to switch realms half way through. Do this weekly, perhaps, and hope that it eventually takes on a life of its own.

Nothing is stopping you.

True, but the problem lies elsewhere I think.
The staff is working under the assumption that by recreating the 'original' game, you can re-create the spirit and experience of DAoC in 2003. I claim this to be erroneous. In simple terms, things often are more than the sum of their parts. Back then, people didn't band up and ran massive zergs because of the way the game was balanced, the keep system or the zones. They did it because it was new, no one had really figured out all the fine details of RvR and because everybody else was doing it. Epic battles and so on.

But here we are, 10 years later, and things have changed. More importantly, people have changed. You either have veteran players, who over the years have come to appreciate the more 'skill-based' forms of play (be it 8vs8 or solo) or players who have never played the original game and simply don't know how zergs have roamed in all zones. Either way, no extensive research on quests, RAs, balancing etc will bring back the spirit of the old-school game.

That being said, if your goal is to run an server mirroring early daoc, what you need to figure out is how to re-create a play experience that comes close to it. And I as well as others have made suggestions that we feel may help to get more people into RvR. That must be the first step - you need critical mass for any large-scale fighting to take place. So the point that you need to be concerned with, to re-iterate again, is to create conditions that will catalyze such a change. And the staff, since I have started playing here, has yet to come forth with any plan, let alone measures, to do so. You too easily dismiss player feedback on these matters, to put it plain and simple.

The points that I made in my OP are all things that should require relatively little work on the coding-side of things, although I will agree that e.g. a war map and other fixes would definitely help. Whether or not the changes I propose have serious implications for balancing, that would have to be discussed. But I nevertheless feel that these things could motivate people not interested in competitive play to go out in the frontiers and do RvR.

holsten-knight wrote:This game is originally designed for people only doing things for theyr rp and give nothing about fair play and care for the other realms...

Another Mythic employee who worked on designing daoc. Theres so many of you guys on Uthgard.

ok dear sir from the internet, thank you very much

I agree with the OP and with Holsten-Knight.
Zergs are very good for the server and for 8 man rvr in the long term. I enjoy both so I am not a hater of either. In fact back on live I was a pretty good zerg leader.

The solution here (in Old Frontiers) isn't that easy though because of Emain and the burden it puts on Hibernia as a realm.

The answer to helping casual RvR is KEEPS, on live in OF they controlled how many relic keep guards your realm had, the more keeps you lost the fewer guards to defend your relics. (they also controlled DF just like here) The fight for keeps was the main area for Zergs.

here you could build Realm versus Realm zerg fights by making keeps more valuable, like connecting them back to the relic guards. ( this needs to be put back in place asap )
But you could also add a simple RP bonus mechanic to them that would bring people out to fight over keeps.

For example for every keep your realm owned and/or had claimed in a enemy realm your realm gets 2% bonus rp's in "that realm". So if you owned all 7 it would be 14% extra RP's. ( but would this be fair to Hibernia since it is under constant pressure 24/7 ?)

Or you could do the reverse and say that for every keep in your own realm you lost you got 2% LESS rp's in ALL rvr zones. ( Ill bet this would get the 8mans out to defend their keeps) (also once again would this be fair to Hibernia?)

these are just ideas to get people thinking in a different direction but something like this would really bring more fights to all frontiers. The difficulty is in doing something like this and keeping it fair to Hibernia.

Another thing that we as players can do right now to help, is to stop all the hate towards Zergs, Zergs are like a factory they build the future RvR players. They bring more people out to play and some of those people will wind up building 8man groups and in the long term there will be more 8v8 fights for everyone.

A war map is not the answer, that's what stealthers are for they gather intel for the zergs.
instant porting is not the answer either.

I have a idea based on the thoughts above on how we can add a bonus to keeps that would be fair to all 3 realms but I will post it in another thread after I think it over some more, besides its good for others to think about it and come up with more good ideas.

in the mean time I would be glad to participate in any player based ideas on how to increase zerg fights.

Cruell
GM - MYTH of Albion Uthgard
GM - Myth - Midgard Merlin.

ZaiQQ wrote:But the thing with guardtasks is that for some people its their main rp income, they don't try to do anything else because for some people the guardtasks gives better rp/h, plenty of people who got to high RR by it, and thats wrong.

Very true, and I agree to a degree. You can achieve a pretty decently high RR doing gaurd tasks, but at some point it would be a bit much to go from 8L0-8L5 doing just gaurd tasks. The main problem with what you are talking about, to me, is that only a handful of classes are really benefitting from gaurd tasks as a whole. Basically, assasins and minstrils who can climb walls to fight scouts on any keep no matter the level. Other classes dont really gaurd task that much because it can be a pain with keeps being to far away or LOS issues. I think if you offered more incentive and task oriented stuff you would see more people out doing gaurd tasks which would equal more true RvR. Instead of having some random nightshade doing 15 tasks over a night instead he would probably only do 8 or so because he would be getting action from other people while doing it. As it stands now, you may get some action while doing a gaurd task, but the chances are pretty small. You could also make it so the amount of rp's for doing solo tasks lowers as you gain RR's. That way if you are RR7L2 you would get less rp's then say a 4L8 toon. I just think gaurd tasks are a good way for people fresh out of thid to get some RR's to help them out. When you are 4L2 and fresh out of thid it's pretty hard to walk into emain and be able to hold your own in a fight, grouped or solo.

Cruell wrote:For example for every keep your realm owned and/or had claimed in a enemy realm your realm gets 2% bonus rp's in "that realm". So if you owned all 7 it would be 14% extra RP's. ( but would this be fair to Hibernia since it is under constant pressure 24/7 ?)

already implemented. if you type /bonus you see the rp bonus you get from keeps.

Did anyone mention the carts implemented in nf yet? Iam talking about the carts that roamed the frontier from keep to keep.

MAYBE we could get something like that implemented for guard taskers ( dont stop reading here xD ), my idea is like this : Lets say mids got a Hibb keep, bolg for example which will be farmed all day long by guard taskers. when many of the guard are dead, a supply cart start from mtk and moves towards bolg. It can be attacked by enemy players ( albs n hibbs ) and will grand a SMALL amount of rps for every cart guard killed ( guards will jump off the cart when attacked just like it was on live ). The keeop guards won´t respawn until the cart didn´t reach the keep ( I know thats sounds redicilous cuz why should guard farmers attack the cart then, cuz they want them to respawn? )

BUT : along with the standard keep guards the cart will provide special guards, like NUKERS ( runemasters,eldrichs, wizards and most importantly : assins to DECLOAK enemy player assassins on the wall )

This idea has many intentions : draw ppl aways from milegates...draw them away from emain even. fighting against / defending carts could be fun / profitable for smallmans solos or fgs.

cheers

My $0.02:

Players should try to specify a specific day and zone where zerging is to be encouraged and no lvl 50 would be turned down. If this could be done once a week or every other week, that would probably get a lot of casuals out into the RvR zones. It would also notify the 8v8 or 1v1 players to avoid that area. I suspect you'd find a lot of people would probably just log on just to participate in this type of weekly or bi-weekly event.

It would probably also help if: a) the high RR 8v8 players split up and group in a PUG in the zerg event for some RvR leadership so that when you die you can inspire the casual players to go back to RvR rather than logging off in frustration from their first death, and b) that the "skilless zergers go away" comments in /b be toned down for the day so that the casual players don't feel like they aren't wanted. Perhaps the GMs could be a bit more ruthless in enforcing short-term bans that day for insults in /b.

The benefits would be that the hard-core RvR players would get to group with the casuals and get to know them, help them, etc. so that in the future those casuals could more easily fit into an 8v8 competitive slot the other 6 days of the week.