Isavyr wrote:Your argument reminds me of when left axe was ridiculously strong and people justified it with the fact that most enemies just ran from a berserker and well the berserker didn't have any way to catch fleeing enemies so it was fair after all.

Hold on...gimme a second...I need a moment to process the fact that someone is actually comparing an Animists to a Berserker...

...

...Ok...I think I'm good now.

All kidding aside, I can see how my statement might remind you of that situation. The major difference, though, is that Animist pets can't move, and that fact alone makes the "keep away" tactic exponentially more justifiable when applied to animist pets rather than on something that can actually chase you down.

From the implementation of the class, one of the Animists biggest weaknesses has been the fact that their pets can't move.

I'm certainly not saying that I think out pets should be able to move, but the fact that they can't, and the fact that their effectiveness is countered so easily by just staying away, keeps the Animist class away from being on anyone's list of the most powerful classes in the game.

snoog wrote:Stealthing behind a wall is cheap. You cant very well counter a stealther when they are hidden who has been there waiting 15 minutes on the off chance someone runs by.

*Edited for perspective*

I consider any Animist who is smart enough to keep their shrooms hidden, to be someone who's actually using their brains.

On the other hand, yes, you'll get people to fall into your shroom trap more often if they can't see them, but even then, I'd consider myself extremely lucky if that person wasn't smart enough to sprint the hell away. It takes the shrooms like 2 seconds to get a cast off and in most cases, that's plenty of time for anyone to run out of range/LOS of the trap, even if they get hit a few times.

The people that call Animists overpowered or cheap, especially here on Uthgard, are usually the people that, for whatever reason, decide that it's okay to stand/fight within range of an active shroom, rather than stay back.

There's probably tons of people out there that hate when they get hit by shrooms after knocking down a keep door, but for every person that complains about that particular situation, I'll show you a person that decided they'd still try to get in the courtyard, rather than run away.

shade wrote:No, what I said that playing an animist (especially in open field) is tough.

Setting up a lot of shrooms in one place alone is not clever. But if you are able to drag/tease naive or (mostly!) RP-greedy players into them, then you are. If you use them to clear pets, you are. If you use them to give your supporters a save spot to pull back with adds, you are. If you prevent enemy casters/supporters from mezzing/DoTing/Nuking them, you are.

I don't think we'd have this conversation if you could only cast shrooms at ONE location at a time

Qway wrote:

snoog wrote:Stealthing behind a wall is cheap. You cant very well counter a stealther when they are hidden who has been there waiting 15 minutes on the off chance someone runs by.

*Edited for perspective*

I consider any Animist who is smart enough to keep their shrooms hidden, to be someone who's actually using their brains.

On the other hand, yes, you'll get people to fall into your shroom trap more often if they can't see them, but even then, I'd consider myself extremely lucky if that person wasn't smart enough to sprint the hell away. It takes the shrooms like 2 seconds to get a cast off and in most cases, that's plenty of time for anyone to run out of range/LOS of the trap.

The people that call Animists overpowered or cheap, especially here on Uthgard, are usually the people that, for whatever reason, decide that it's okay to stand/fight within range of an active shroom, rather than stay back.

There's probably tons of people out there that hate when they get hit by shrooms after knocking down a keep door, but for every person that complains about that particular situation, I'll show you a person that decided they'd still try to get in the courtyard, rather than run away.

This class is practically designed for keep-defense. No other realm has the equivalent and nor should they given the development of PBAOE in this game--which would be the natural balance to animists.

At the moment, a clever animist wields too much power over the defense of a keep. No one class should be given that much power.

The class on a whole is too weak in some aspects and potentially too strong in another.

Isavyr wrote:At the moment, a clever animist wields too much power over the defense of a keep. No one class should be given that much power.

The class on a whole is too weak in some aspects and potentially too strong in another.

Can't argue with the second statement there.

The other realms are probably lucky then that a 'clever' Animist is usually one that has a lot of patience and has the ability to think outside of the 'shroom-and-sit' box. Both of which are qualities that you don't see all that often. Heck I still get lazy sometimes and will just plant a field and hope someone dumb runs in to it while I'm eating a bowl of cereal.

Cool when people say animists suck. They are wtfpwnbbq if they work correctly. Highest delve nuke bombers, tanglers of doom. It brings tons of group utility.

But I wouldn't expect players like mintberrycrrunch to understand group rvr at all, he likes meleeing castergroups on cleric :>

ZaiQQ wrote:Cool when people say animists suck. They are wtfpwnbbq if they work correctly.

but because of not working correctly everybody says that animists on uhtgard suck for rvr beside camping somewhere.

Running away from animists its not counter them, its avoidin fighting them.
Running away from animists does not mean they are not one of the strongest classes, you cant tell wich class is stronger than others if you dont fight.
Stop bullshit.

An animist is exactly as strong as the players, which is something that cannot be said about most classes, or only to some degree. I ran with animists many times the past few weeks in Braemar mostly, and a bad animist is more a liability than anything else. As deadly as a shroom field can be it's also the perfect cc-breaker and does nothing else but keep all the enemy tanks constantly free of cc. They're easy to use as target for ae dot or mezz and anyone who stands near it gets constantly rupted. I lack the patience for an animist and think I can get much quicker rps with most other classes but I appreciate a good animist, even in open (BG) rvr.. tangler pets are also extremely under-appreciated in my opinion. As a hib I hate theurgs, there are just no light elds (ns) around to counter them in standoffs.

Entreri wrote:Running away from animists its not counter them, its avoidin fighting them.
Running away from animists does not mean they are not one of the strongest classes, you cant tell wich class is stronger than others if you dont fight.
Stop bullshit.

The problem is, you're thinking of it in terms of individual battles rather than an all-out war.

Of course you aren't necessarily countering an Animist when you stay out of range of, or run away from, their shrooms, but you ARE keeping yourself alive, giving yourself the opportunity to go in for the kill at a more opportune moment or in a future fight, which is certainly more viable than just running into a shroomfield and dying like a noob.

For example: You could run away and re-attack after the shrooms have expired, or after they've been mezzed, or after they've been one-shot killed with an AOE, or after the Animist runs out of power, or after you've gathered some reinforcements to help, etc. etc. etc. Any of these strategies can render an Animists pets useless, which will, in effect, counter the one ability that everyone seems to complain about.

Maybe 'counter' isn't the correct word to use if that's what you're stuck on. Maybe I should have said 'tactic' instead. Because NOT running into an animists shrooms is a VERY valid tactic in not losing to an Animist.

And as for the overall strength of the class, I'll agree with a few other posts in this thread and say that, for the most part, any given class is only as good as the person playing it. That's not to say that a battle bard can go out and wtfpwn AMG if there's a pro at the keyboard, but any player with any amount of brains will recognize the immobility of an Animists shrooms as an obvious weakness that can be utilized in taking them down.

Yes, that can be difficult when it comes to those situations where the animist is defending a keep, since that is one of their strong points, but they're certainly not invincible. You just have to bring the right 'tools' to the fight. And if you attempt it without the right tools? Well, then all you're going to do is bring down a lot of pain and frustration upon yourself.

In fact, you seem to be a little upset at the Animist class in general. Maybe you've been shroomed to death more times than you prefer to say? Yes, No? Either way, I suggest trying a few of the things I've mentioned the next time you encounter an Animist. Maybe it will help you to not be so frustrated?

You forgot a couple tactics: we could also wait for animist to afk or busy chatting with friends.

So many tactics to choose from

I think you guys have found an untapped goldmine of rps here.

You should go camp amg and mmg with your animists and LOL while mids and albs dies like lemmings to them. When you get rr11+ in no time the skeptics will realize how strong animists really are and will cry for them to be custom nerfed even more.

The victims may go OG/HW instead of emain or stop playing completely because animists are to strong to deal with and impossible to avoid when camping the milegates.

Lol, I thought this thread was started as a joke about animists. I didnt realise some people actually think they are op'd in RvR. Most of these people probably run SM's or Therug's, and boy do I hate hypocrites. Animists are very nice for keep defense (which really doesnt happen to often unless its a relic keep) and allthough they can be viable if spec'd and played well, in open field RvR they are not used much. As several others have pointed out, they cant just shroom away when you have CC going on, and you dont want shrooms near your group since it give an easy target for AOE. As of right now the highest RR animist is 7L7 and there is only 14 people that have animists above 5L0. That doesnt exactly sound like a RvR powerhouse toon to me. As a comparison there is 66 5L0+ Theurg's and the highest one is 11L1.

RonELuvv wrote:Lol, I thought this thread was started as a joke about animists. I didnt realise some people actually think they are op'd in RvR. Most of these people probably run SM's or Therug's, and boy do I hate hypocrites. Animists are very nice for keep defense (which really doesnt happen to often unless its a relic keep) and allthough they can be viable if spec'd and played well, in open field RvR they are not used much. As several others have pointed out, they cant just shroom away when you have CC going on, and you dont want shrooms near your group since it give an easy target for AOE. As of right now the highest RR animist is 7L7 and there is only 14 people that have animists above 5L0. That doesnt exactly sound like a RvR powerhouse toon to me. As a comparison there is 66 5L0+ Theurg's and the highest one is 11L1.

Well there are funny moments to the thread, but there is a valid argument underneath it. In defending a position, an animist can be overly powerful and difficult to counter. No one claims they are overpowered in all aspects, though.

Theurgists is another topic and you can start one, maybe see who bites