hmm i dont have any problems with stealth classes (specific assasins) the dmg is absolutely ok, (only viper suxx a bit)

u can avoid the CD with nearby every class (casters not included!) like warden can use pbt, offtanks can charge, shieldtanks can "try" to slam skald/minstrel can insta mezz/stun or sos even cleric can use his insta ae mezz...

so where is the problem? the pa? hmm i guess if pa would get fixed to live like then you would cry more (if i think at 2h pa from sb for example)

ok my hunter/ranger cant avoid the CD, but they can skill MoS2+ to see the assasins as first (if i get a pa on those toons , its my own fault)


so i dont understand where the problem is at... u got 3 shotted by a ns on your minstrel? seems u never got 3 shotted by an archer, doesnt matter if melee or bowspec, they can kill you as fast as a assasin (scout not included!)

Mains problems of assasins:
-Viper with no variance
-Poison reaply=100% proc chance weapon
-Evade rate not influenced by WS(impossible to land a hit on them,spamming a "very high to hit" style on high WS classes)
-Not auto targeted after PA(when stealthers hit for the first time,they are still in stealth mode and can't be targeted until they hit for 2nd time)

Kaltess wrote:Mains problems of assasins:
-Viper with no variance
-Poison reaply=100% proc chance weapon
-Evade rate not influenced by WS(impossible to land a hit on them,spamming a "very high to hit" style on high WS classes)
-Not auto targeted after PA(when stealthers hit for the first time,they are still in stealth mode and can't be targeted until they hit for 2nd time)

the to hit rate of a style does not have any influence on you chane to penatrate the opponents defense. thats a common miss understanding all it does is reducing your chance to miss your style entirely.

beside that GR´s of the dualwield lines are to high leading to too much dmg by the few who specced that line really high and are using those styles primarily. but the biggest issue regarding stealther dmg is viper wich should be kicked as well as charge for balancing issues regarding the server setup and aiming to old RA´s.

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:hmm i dont have any problems with stealth classes (specific assasins) the dmg is absolutely ok, (only viper suxx a bit)

u can avoid the CD with nearby every class (casters not included!) like warden can use pbt, offtanks can charge, shieldtanks can "try" to slam skald/minstrel can insta mezz/stun or sos even cleric can use his insta ae mezz...

so where is the problem? the pa? hmm i guess if pa would get fixed to live like then you would cry more (if i think at 2h pa from sb for example)

ok my hunter/ranger cant avoid the CD, but they can skill MoS2+ to see the assasins as first (if i get a pa on those toons , its my own fault)


so i dont understand where the problem is at... u got 3 shotted by a ns on your minstrel? seems u never got 3 shotted by an archer, doesnt matter if melee or bowspec, they can kill you as fast as a assasin (scout not included!)

Im agree.

Kaltess wrote:Mains problems of assasins:
-Viper with no variance
-Poison reaply=100% proc chance weapon
-Not auto targeted after PA(when stealthers hit for the first time,they are still in stealth mode and can't be targeted until they hit for 2nd time)

3 times total Bulls hit

the dot ticks with a variance, a low one, sure.
poison can be resist
what for u need auto target ?

Kaltess wrote:Mains problems of assasins:
-Viper with no variance

Wrong, there is a variance, the variance is even high as you venom skill is low, but in fact 90% of assassin have 50 venom composite without switch, so -> nearly no variance
working as intented.

Kaltess wrote:-Poison reaply=100% proc chance weapon

Poison have same resist rate as any other lvl 50 spell when you use a lvl 50 venom.
Nothing more, nothing less.
According to the general QQ about resist rate, i would even say that they might resist too much
And you should note that lower level venom (like S/C debuff) resistes way more than lifeban !

Kaltess wrote:-Evade rate not influenced by WS(impossible to land a hit on them,spamming a "very high to hit" style on high WS classes)

Stupid argument.
Yes, assassin evade a lot.
Yes, weapon skill doesn't influence defense penetration.
NO it doesn't make them OP'D
Any shield/parry speced chars block and parry more than any other assasin will evade in a fight.
I could even send you ss, when i fight some skald who can only spec in parry who parried 15 hits in a fight, while i evaded 4 hits ...
Or some low rr armsman & paladin who gave some nice straight of block parry... still even more than my own evade !

Kaltess wrote:-Not auto targeted after PA(when stealthers hit for the first time,they are still in stealth mode and can't be targeted until they hit for 2nd time)

maybe cause you click too much
use a nearest enemy qbind !


Btw tonhl, i've fought 3 times in raw without PA, you didn't even triy to stun/kite/heal yourself ... imo that's normal that you don't stand a chance ^^

I can show ss's with priskas pa dmg, its insane, imo nerf!

Oswaldo wrote:I can show ss's with priskas pa dmg, its insane, imo nerf!

pls do it, i need for my own hall of fame :'))

btw, ofc my PA are insane, i'm 50+18 CS, you take hard if you're sensible to slash

Artefact wrote:you take hard if you're sensible to slash

QQ Priska!

However, assassins dmg is ok. Yes, they are advantaged by the "WS not affecting def penetration" bug when they fight non DW classes, but this is a bug that affect eveyone here, examples of parry and insane block rate are true.
Obviously in 1vs1 this bug is a greater advantage.

Well still Priska bug is bug.

You get Evade for Free - and as Pala you spec A LOT into Block/Parry & RA's for it and still I Parry/Block less than you Evade I suppose - you can't bring up one example and say the bug isnt that bad.
I will count Evades & Blocks/Parry next time I meet you

Artefact wrote:Wrong, there is a variance, the variance is even high as you venom skill is low, but in fact 90% of assassin have 50 venom composite without switch, so -> nearly no variance
working as intented.

Are you sure? Do you have a quick SS or something you can show some huge variance when you apply venom without level composite? Remember too that variance should be based off of spec when the venom is applied via an attack on enemy, not when applying it to weapon etc.

Always thought this check was missing on uthgard but would love to see that it is actually there.

Artefact wrote:

Kaltess wrote:-Evade rate not influenced by WS(impossible to land a hit on them,spamming a "very high to hit" style on high WS classes)

Stupid argument.
Yes, assassin evade a lot.
Yes, weapon skill doesn't influence defense penetration.
NO it doesn't make them OP'D

It does increase, relatively, the damage that classes which have dual wield mechanics will do, compared to all the other classes. This is because dual wield mechanics penetrate the highest possible defense mechanic (shield) and also evade. If you have 2H (only recently was this added too right?) you should be able to penetrate parry, however, not nearly as many classes have a high % of parry compared to the combination of shield and evade.

So Mercs, BMs, Zerks, NSes, Rangers, Infs, and SBs all do more damage relatively, than they otherwise would because of this bug.

Regarding a boon to defense, it does that for almost ever single class. However, the assasins have some serious styles based off of evading, and are leveraged completely into evade for their defense (trade away good armor, all parry, all block), which is the favored way to have your defense spread on uthgard.

Kaltess wrote:-Not auto targeted after PA(when stealthers hit for the first time,they are still in stealth mode and can't be targeted until they hit for 2nd time)

Artefact wrote:maybe cause you click too much
use a nearest enemy qbind !

LOL, nice try

I'm realy realy disapointed. This is a topic about stealther and nobody so far has proposed to nerf rangers? Shame on you ...

Force wrote:Are you sure? Do you have a quick SS or something you can show some huge variance when you apply venom without level composite?

You can't apply a venom without the required level (pur or composit)

Force wrote:Remember too that variance should be based off of spec when the venom is applied via an attack on enemy, not when applying it to weapon etc.

Wrong.
Variance is based of you venom skill
let's image it with lifeban lvl 50 venom skill.
If you run a full cap temp with 36+14venom=50 -> Really low variance ~ +/- 2/3dmg
If you run a non-cap temp with 36venom=36 -> high variance (never been in such setting
The point is that no one run with 36venom.
Most of people switch 1 item to venom or just don't need to.
The average venom skill is around 36+6 in a non caped temp so 42composite which made a low variance. ~ +/- 8/10dmg
Many stealth have full cap so nearly no variance.

Force wrote:
It does increase, relatively, the damage that classes which have dual wield mechanics will do, compared to all the other classes. This is because dual wield mechanics penetrate the highest possible defense mechanic (shield) and also evade. If you have 2H (only recently was this added too right?) you should be able to penetrate parry, however, not nearly as many classes have a high % of parry compared to the combination of shield and evade.

So Mercs, BMs, Zerks, NSes, Rangers, Infs, and SBs all do more damage relatively, than they otherwise would because of this bug.

This is a valid argument which make sense.
Anyway i still think that defense defense penetration is so broken that it's not such a big deal. In fact, from my experience with NS, evade is all about luck like any other stealth will tell you.
Once you'll evade 4/5 time in a fight.
Once you'll just not evade at all.

Force wrote:Regarding a boon to defense, it does that for almost ever single class. However, the assasins have some serious styles based off of evading, and are leveraged completely into evade for their defense (trade away good armor, all parry, all block), which is the favored way to have your defense spread on uthgard.

Wrong, bonus to hit & bonus defense style won't affect rvr.
exemple : spaming detaunt won't make evade more in RvR.
Moreover, this is link to evade, so based on luck, i would also add that it's really hard to use a complet combo of such evade chain.
Btw, those who QQ'd about GR weren't talking about those CS evade chain which is not buged at all (futhermore this evade combo lack the right bleeding effect)

Artefact wrote:

Force wrote:
It does increase, relatively, the damage that classes which have dual wield mechanics will do, compared to all the other classes. This is because dual wield mechanics penetrate the highest possible defense mechanic (shield) and also evade. If you have 2H (only recently was this added too right?) you should be able to penetrate parry, however, not nearly as many classes have a high % of parry compared to the combination of shield and evade.

So Mercs, BMs, Zerks, NSes, Rangers, Infs, and SBs all do more damage relatively, than they otherwise would because of this bug.

This is a valid argument which make sense.
Anyway i still think that defense defense penetration is so broken that it's not such a big deal. In fact, from my experience with NS, evade is all about luck like any other stealth will tell you.
Once you'll evade 4/5 time in a fight.
Once you'll just not evade at all.

Obviously is a matter of luck (better, of % chances), but in my experience 3/4 of the duels i lose it's just because of 6/7 evade in a fight. This is a lot. So, expecially in 1vs1, % chances are very important, and in fact we do a lot to make chances at top for us (super temps, buffs, charges) in 1vs1, because is here that we see how good is our toon performance.
That's why I wrote that in 1vs1 the advantage coming from this bug is greater.
This bug, even if it's affecting all classes, is an advantage just for DW in the end, because of the 1vs1 situation and the classes that an assassin or a ranger have to fight usually.

Artefact wrote:

Force wrote:Are you sure? Do you have a quick SS or something you can show some huge variance when you apply venom without level composite?

You can't apply a venom without the required level (pur or composit)

Force wrote:Remember too that variance should be based off of spec when the venom is applied via an attack on enemy, not when applying it to weapon etc.

Wrong.
Variance is based of you venom skill
let's image it with lifeban lvl 50 venom skill.
If you run a full cap temp with 36+14venom=50 -> Really low variance ~ +/- 2/3dmg
If you run a non-cap temp with 36venom=36 -> high variance (never been in such setting
The point is that no one run with 36venom.
Most of people switch 1 item to venom or just don't need to.
The average venom skill is around 36+6 in a non caped temp so 42composite which made a low variance. ~ +/- 8/10dmg
Many stealth have full cap so nearly no variance.

Composite level at the time of hitting the enemy is what variance for envenom should check off of. That's all I said, by spec I mean composite spec, items + spec level.



I am not confused about when variance should be applied, or how to apply venom to a weapon.



So now that we have that all cleared that up, do you have a SS to show the variance?

I have heard both ways for this, so seems a screenshot would clear it up.

Artefact wrote:

Force wrote:Regarding a boon to defense, it does that for almost ever single class. However, the assasins have some serious styles based off of evading, and are leveraged completely into evade for their defense (trade away good armor, all parry, all block), which is the favored way to have your defense spread on uthgard.

Wrong, bonus to hit & bonus defense style won't affect rvr.
exemple : spaming detaunt won't make evade more in RvR.
Moreover, this is link to evade, so based on luck, i would also add that it's really hard to use a complet combo of such evade chain.
Btw, those who QQ'd about GR weren't talking about those CS evade chain which is not buged at all (futhermore this evade combo lack the right bleeding effect)

No, defense penetration not existing on uthgard does effect defense rates. I never mentioned these style bonus defense, so I don't know why you brought them up.

The crit strike styles which have the highest growth rates on styles based off of evading, while all the reactionary stun styles come from evade reactionary and assasins are leveraged completely into evade for their defense (trade away good armor, all parry, all block), which is the favored way to have your defense spread on uthgard.

^^^^


That has nothing to do with bonus to defense styles, and everything to do with how defense works on uthgard, and how the assasins defense is setup, and how their styles work off of that defense.