Runental wrote:

ThokeGM wrote:I much prefer OF simply because it has a great size for the population that Uthgard currently has

yeah, great size.. 12 big maps in relatioon to 100-150(?) active rvr ppl every evening

Theres an important difference you ignore. There are dedicated hotspots in OF where in NF you run around randomly and find nothing or miss the enemy because they do the same. It doesnt matter that there are 12 maps when players clearly know where to head to.

As a note to pessimistic OF bashers: There are more players in OF than in BG's. We see 150-200 players in OF every evening. I can remember back that NF would be quite dead with a similar port system we use in OF.

Blue wrote:

Runental wrote:

ThokeGM wrote:I much prefer OF simply because it has a great size for the population that Uthgard currently has

yeah, great size.. 12 big maps in relatioon to 100-150(?) active rvr ppl every evening

Theres an important difference you ignore. There are dedicated hotspots in OF where in NF you run around randomly and find nothing or miss the enemy because they do the same. It doesnt matter that there are 12 maps when players clearly know where to head to.

As a note to pessimistic OF bashers: There are more players in OF than in BG's. We see 150-200 players in OF every evening. I can remember back that NF would be quite dead with a similar port system we use in OF.

Well, regarding the first point - you had Agramon (which in some sense served the function Emain does currently) as well as a functioning warmap. So I have a hard time accepting that point.

Secondly, I don't really remember running around in NF not knowing where to look for inc. There were hot spots too (Agramon, for example, but also the central keeps). People would raid the three main keeps because there was an actual reason to do so, even for the 8vs8 crowed (teleport). Now? Well, no point other than opening DF for more PvE to get to 50 to reroll another toon...

Thirdly, there is an underlying issue here that is difficult to untangle - player numbers. Yes, Uthgard has more players than it had 1-2 years ago. But it is problematic to correlate that directly to the transition to OF. Other things, such as the closing/transfer of the EU servers etc may well factor into this development. Also, not only do I have a very hard time believing the numbers you quote for OF (150-200?^^), but it also is not clear how that translates into active RvR population. When RvRing I bump into the same 1-2 groups in Emain and that's is usually it. There are probably quite a few players I don't see (stealthers) or some that run around outside of the hot spots, but these are more likely raiding empty keeps or farm guards or whatever.

In the end, there is simply no denying that you guys took a way quite a few features from the game and what we currently have are three disconnected and largely empty zones with most of the action taking place in Emain (formerly Agramon, but with bottlenecks aka mile gates) minus the keeps, xp spots, open world (read: no wiping on guards to get to the porter, to wait for port, to rebuff, to run across the map to find that your keep has been raided by two stealthers 10mins ago).

So I am still very unclear on the rationale behind this step other than 'classic setting'. You are not gaining anything nor are you giving players new stuff, you took away a lot of things - with the recent promise to re-implement a few of them (logic?^^) - and we didn't really gain anything, imho.

Well as announced in the news, OF is still in a raw unpolished state with lot room for improvements. For that state im satisfied with what I see, as its way better than our start in NF where player numbers dropped under 15 at times.

Blue wrote:Well as announced in the news, OF is still in a raw unpolished state with lot room for improvements. For that state im satisfied with what I see, as its way better than our start in NF where player numbers dropped under 15 at times.

Sure it's nice that there is some action at all, but hurry up we need some more casual friendly RvR design. Right now you can't go out and RvR as a casual more or less, 'cause all you encounter are 8vs8 grps who will rather /clap the enemy than helping your rr4 group.

We know.

Blue wrote:Well as announced in the news, OF is still in a raw unpolished state with lot room for improvements. For that state im satisfied with what I see, as its way better than our start in NF where player numbers dropped under 15 at times.

So you decided that rather than trying to work on that and tweak it to make it more attractive you'd just scarp the entire thing, and put in an unfinished place holder for, well, the better part of a year and then announce that your solution to polish this 'raw' implementation is to put in key NF features (despite insisting in other discussions that custom changes are a no-go for Uthgard?).

Me confused

I can tell you that OF was a long term goal of Uthgard same like SI is a long term goal. The voting for OF just made the final decision to switch easier.

I dont see which changes you could do which are not custom at all. OF like it is atm is live like from back then. So for improving you can just do a lot of custom changes, then you end up with a custom OF Zone.

pweet wrote:I dont see which changes you could do which are not custom at all. OF like it is atm is live like from back then. So for improving you can just do a lot of custom changes, then you end up with a custom OF Zone.

As we had a custom NF zone

Didnt play before OF, just thought you dont want to have many custom changes.
Edit: I was one of the ppl who came for OF

Lasastard wrote:

Blue wrote:
Theres an important difference you ignore. There are dedicated hotspots in OF where in NF you run around randomly and find nothing or miss the enemy because they do the same. It doesnt matter that there are 12 maps when players clearly know where to head to.

As a note to pessimistic OF bashers: There are more players in OF than in BG's. We see 150-200 players in OF every evening. I can remember back that NF would be quite dead with a similar port system we use in OF.

Well, regarding the first point - you had Agramon (which in some sense served the function Emain does currently) as well as a functioning warmap. So I have a hard time accepting that point.

The warmap didn't work on Agramon and emain is quite a bit smaller than Agramon.

Secondly, I don't really remember running around in NF not knowing where to look for inc. There were hot spots too (Agramon, for example, but also the central keeps). People would raid the three main keeps because there was an actual reason to do so, even for the 8vs8 crowed (teleport). Now? Well, no point other than opening DF for more PvE to get to 50 to reroll another toon...


So your point is that in NF, the reason to take a keep was a broken teleporting system and that is somehow better than only doing it for your realm by opening up DF. OOoooookay. Not to mention, I see keeps change hands almost by the hour. If you want to defend these keeps, join an alliance that is rvr focused and claims keeps so you know when they start killing the guards.
Last I checked, there already IS a teleport system, only difference being the delay between teleports and it's permanently available.

When RvRing I bump into the same 1-2 groups in Emain and that's is usually it. There are probably quite a few players I don't see (stealthers) or some that run around outside of the hot spots, but these are more likely raiding empty keeps or farm guards or whatever.


That sort of goes against what you've been saying previously, that there's no 8vs8, small man or solo. But apparently you're now saying that people don't all go to AMG. It would seem like some smart players found out that beelining for AMG after every death wasn't the smartest thing to do when soloing but instead try to move action towards keeps and low population zones.

In the end, there is simply no denying that you guys took a way quite a few features from the game and what we currently have are three disconnected and largely empty zones with most of the action taking place in Emain (formerly Agramon, but with bottlenecks aka mile gates) minus the keeps, xp spots, open world (read: no wiping on guards to get to the porter, to wait for port, to rebuff, to run across the map to find that your keep has been raided by two stealthers 10mins ago).

This last paragraph is just a mess. I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say.

So I am still very unclear on the rationale behind this step other than 'classic setting'. You are not gaining anything nor are you giving players new stuff, you took away a lot of things - with the recent promise to re-implement a few of them (logic?^^) - and we didn't really gain anything, imho.

Not sure what you're expecting playing on a freeshard with the clear aim of bringing the game back to OF/preToA and what exactly should they bring back from NF? The teleport system? Might as well play one of the i50 servers.

Celteen wrote:

Blue wrote:Well as announced in the news, OF is still in a raw unpolished state with lot room for improvements. For that state im satisfied with what I see, as its way better than our start in NF where player numbers dropped under 15 at times.

Sure it's nice that there is some action at all, but hurry up we need some more casual friendly RvR design. Right now you can't go out and RvR as a casual more or less, 'cause all you encounter are 8vs8 grps who will rather /clap the enemy than helping your rr4 group.

So you're upset that when you're losing 8vs8, that other 8man groups don't add to your fight so you win? It sounds like you want to zerg.

If you don't want to lose, either group up with other groups and zerg it up, or go to zones where the big mean 8man groups don't roam.

ThokeGM wrote:

Lasastard wrote:
In the end, there is simply no denying that you guys took a way quite a few features from the game and what we currently have are three disconnected and largely empty zones with most of the action taking place in Emain (formerly Agramon, but with bottlenecks aka mile gates) minus the keeps, xp spots, open world (read: no wiping on guards to get to the porter, to wait for port, to rebuff, to run across the map to find that your keep has been raided by two stealthers 10mins ago).

This last paragraph is just a mess. I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say.

Just for you then, the 'light' version:

Situation then: One large RvR zone with sieging of destructible/upgradable keeps and no true bottlenecks, means of getting directly to the action (no wiping on guards to teleport to different zone) ,a central RvR zone ala Emain + xp spots all over the FZ
Situation now: All RvR action focuses on Emain and is limited to 8vs8 and stealther-gangbang, static and defenseless keeps that only small groups raid for RPs and/or to open DF, no or few xp spots

Not saying NF was perfect, but it had a bit more potential to appeal to a broader audience imho.

ThokeGM wrote:

Celteen wrote:

Blue wrote:Well as announced in the news, OF is still in a raw unpolished state with lot room for improvements. For that state im satisfied with what I see, as its way better than our start in NF where player numbers dropped under 15 at times.

Sure it's nice that there is some action at all, but hurry up we need some more casual friendly RvR design. Right now you can't go out and RvR as a casual more or less, 'cause all you encounter are 8vs8 grps who will rather /clap the enemy than helping your rr4 group.

So you're upset that when you're losing 8vs8, that other 8man groups don't add to your fight so you win? It sounds like you want to zerg.

If you don't want to lose, either group up with other groups and zerg it up, or go to zones where the big mean 8man groups don't roam.

You should start to think outside your box. I've no problems with the RvR situation at all, but we could have and we need a much more healthy RvR population . 8vs8 doesn't need any goodies at all, but RvR needs some improvement for sure.

And you think NF will benefit with better RvR?

Sounds delusional to me