Seems like most people still got serious problems with the fact that DAoC is no Good/Evil setting with two enemy Realms being identical to each other in the end.


Accept it as it is, and Celerity is not that 'ub0r'. It's more like that a 43 Mend, 32 Aug Healer is a pretty decent supportchar. =) Not to forget the 6 in Pac, for funny AOE rupt with low lvl mezz (a bit larger area than the lvl 1 aoe-stun).



Albion needs no Celerity, Hibernia doesn't either (of course, Warden got self-celerity ...).

nixian wrote:decision made long time ago as a emergency stop because many unwanted requests were made (such as celerity for all sides, friar heal styles, thanes dd styles, etc)

this is classic daoc - meaning there will be imbalances between the realms - this is somewhat unfixable while keeping a classic setting

I didn't know classic daoc was defined by imbalances. I thought classic daoc was daoc that excluded toa bonuses/MLs/CLs.

silenced wrote:Albion needs no Celerity, Hibernia doesn't either (of course, Warden got self-celerity ...).

Tried playing a hero, champ or armsman in rvr on uthgard?

It should be noted -- as was done early in the thread -- that Celerity for Healers has to be cast again every twenty seconds, has short range. And let's not forget that that Healers also have CC and healing to do as well. It's not just some chant we can just turn on.

This said, let's not forget that Mythic's patches have never really brought balance. There is probably one point where DAoC was the most balanced, but with so many classes it's impossible to really be certain as to when this was and even the best point would be full of flaws, barely better than any other point, because Mythic tended to bring new imbalances when fixing old ones; it wasn't anything like a linear progression towards balance.

IMO, they should have made the realms mirror each other more closely, perhaps even completely. Of course, people will always wine about imbalance, but this wouldn't have as serious an impact as it can have on DAoC.

But now, we're playing DAoC and there are many classes and the realms are not even close to mirroring each other. Some like this fact, some don't, but that's what we have.

The Uthgard team doesn't seem interested in custom balance -- and I understand them, since this would be too big a challenge for voluntary work --, so we're left with the different patches DAoC has released. The debate should thus center not on whether hibs and albs should have something like celerity, but which patch set was the most balanced for the three realms -- and this includes all the changes that come with the patch.

But this is really hard to test and it's difficult to compare live to Uthgard. Still, people should voice their opinion on this, but when they're focusing on one problem and saying "in terms of celerity, the realms were more balanced at patch X", they're completely missing the point: even if in terms of celerity the realms were more balanced, it might be worst balance in other respects. A discussion that fails to take this into account is irrelevant to the Uthgard team, since what they have to be convinced about for us to see change is that a certain patch set will make Uthgard more balanced as a whole.

There will always be classes or abilities that will be seen as overpowered, but we just have to deal with it and see it as part of the challenge. What did the great guilds DAoC has seen throughout the years do to defeat the other realm? Even during the most (allegedly) unfavourable patches towards specific realms, there have always been hib, alb and mid groups that managed win with a very good ratio. Learn from them.

It seems to me that people just want to be on the "iwin" side. This is DAoC: you'll never see perfect balance. So the best you can do is take pleasure in adversity. The best feeling you can get in DAoC is to know that you've won even though the odds were against you. When the imbalances are disfavourable towards you (or so you believe), then you can rest comfortable knowing that your wins are not cheapened by having OP abilities on your side. People can take this approach, or keep whining.

Bukowski wrote:It should be noted -- as was done early in the thread -- that Celerity for Healers has to be cast again every twenty seconds, has short range.

20s duration/3s cast time/1000 radius

vs

5s duration/3s downtime if you twist perfectly which is impossible without a macro/350 radius.

Yeah those chants sure do sound terribly overpowered compared to the castable counterpart.

Do you know what you get when you have opposing sides that mirror each other? You get WoW.

Daoc is/was great because each realm was different. Personally I would like to see old RA's brought back because then you'd have even more uniqueness to each realm. Sure, as a mid I fear the idea of having to fight albs with SoS & BoF, and hibs with Grp Purge... but that's part of the fun.

Phaeton wrote:Do you know what you get when you have opposing sides that mirror each other? You get WoW.

Daoc is/was great because each realm was different. Personally I would like to see old RA's brought back because then you'd have even more uniqueness to each realm. Sure, as a mid I fear the idea of having to fight albs with SoS & BoF, and hibs with Grp Purge... but that's part of the fun.

Since when there is any balance in wow? ~~ Especially in pvp?

The fact is mythic added celerity to hib and alb in later patches even if they didnt have it before. Its not correcting mythic if we do the same as they did?

The same justification is used in animists case, where mythic later added shroom cap...

Shav wrote:
Since when there is any balance in wow? ~~ Especially in pvp?

wow is plenty balanced...you just have to play the same op'd classes. If you look at the top arena teams it's always the same combos. It doesn't really matter if they're horde or alliance. In daoc you can't mirror the other realm because no 2 classes are alike.

Phaeton wrote:

Shav wrote:
Since when there is any balance in wow? ~~ Especially in pvp?

wow is plenty balanced...you just have to play the same op'd classes. If you look at the top arena teams it's always the same combos. It doesn't really matter if they're horde or alliance. In daoc you can't mirror the other realm because no 2 classes are alike.

And thats why noone here wants clerics or druids to have celerity?


Btw noone noticed that only mid players are against this celerity for all? Even realmcrossers agree its a good idea (including ex-mids)

You're not reading what I'm posting... I'm sure some people would want the realms to have every ability the others have, but personally I like the uniqueness to each realm.

I think it is a bad idea

but then again I don't like many of the 1.80+ changes so - might be why I'm against it

Phaeton wrote:You're not reading what I'm posting... I'm sure some people would want the realms to have every ability the others have, but personally I like the uniqueness to each realm.

Well imagine mid had no spec buffs. Would you call it uniqueness or obvious imbalance? ~~ Its exactly the same

Shav wrote:

Phaeton wrote:You're not reading what I'm posting... I'm sure some people would want the realms to have every ability the others have, but personally I like the uniqueness to each realm.

Well imagine mid had no spec buffs. Would you call it uniqueness or obvious imbalance? ~~ Its exactly the same

well it's not really the same now is it

lol, thats not even remotely the same

Why not? That would be uniqueness of realms. Albs and hibs would have buffs mids would have celerity. And at the moment alb and hib suffer from this imbalance without any benefits from other abilities Even spell damage is nerfed since only mids got implemented/useful class with highest spell delve. Is that uniqueness too?

the realms don't have identical classes/spells/styles

why would albion/hibernia only get spec buffs when mid doesn't...