Thid is killing Emain, thats for sure.

Will try to explain why.

I know that all i will talk/write about everyone knows and read couple of times, or even feels himself like that.
I have to write it down, think it will be my last post.

Iam playing now for 3 Month here, my first char reached 4l6.

My second (eld) is now 4l2, made round 200k/week in Thid, so it was a real short fun, but anyways the best time i had on this server.


Last few weeks i checked every few hours how much ppl are in Thid in total. I counted couple of times 3 fg hibs + some smaller groups + lots of stealther.
Alb and Mid were nearly the same.
Ofcourse on peaktimes, but even the half would be still to much.

So - there are about 10 fg's at the same time, in the same bg - No idea how it looks in other bg's.

Round 100 rvr / pvp willing ppl in the same bg. At the same time i see in broad ppl asking in emain if someone saw any enemies.

I talked with quite a lot people, with which i was grouped - and every single one talking the same stuff: Thid is a lot of more fun then any other way to rvr.
In Thid we can go solo or as duo or trio or whatever, its still fun.
Fg fights with a good setup, not good players or perfect sc on everyone.
With just a "normal" setup which includes at least 1 full healer and 1 mezzer you can have real fun in Thid. If we wipe - Np, just rebuff - go out and choose if you want to fight directly again or walk a bit outside. All in all it takes max 3 min.

In a lvl 50 emain grp, if a group gets killed and didnt make any rps, always at least 2-3 ppl had to take a break, or help guildies or whatever.
Sometimes it gets to a second run without any leaving or 30-60 min afk's.
And that's it, after it someone will go to a high rr grp or joins a df xp grp to lvl his Thid toon. Or whatever, just annoying on the whole line.

Then try to find a bard or a druid for emain rvr - it sounds like a joke seriously, coz its nearly impossible - if you find like 1 hour later your bard, then someone else has to leave coz of monthly bleeding or whatever, or just too long waiting without any sense of achievement, spent so much hours in trying to form, find, or keep the grp alive. But its just impossible with randoms.

Sometimes it happens that you get really quick replacement for the leaving dudes, then you walk and walk and walk and walk, after 30min+ trying to avoid the instant death at AMG, with at least 1 fg enemies, often get sandwiched with max 2-3 kills, depends on how much solos were found on the way + wondering where the 7-10 enemy stealther come from. Normally there are way more then 1 fg camping or having a dinner with a tea time after at AMG. So you will need at least a second grp if you want to try cleaning AMG.

And here we go again: spending sometimes hours to find one grp willing to run with you. Meanwhile you have to replace half of your own grp, coz ppl are annoyed of waiting waiting waiting / see some enemys, then waiting hours again. All in all, just a whole waste of time.

You would say why is it nessecary to get a second grp - becouse some of the grp members then just sit down with the words: "I wont feed them with rps - Need add grp first or i or we logg - then after logging i see them on bg toons, which just makes me angry"

So at the end of the evening, after rvr'ing for round 10 hours, no - trying to rvr for round 10 hours, you made maybe 10-15k rps and had a lot of fun. You go to bed with a feeling of wasted your whole day on trying to get some ppl together and wait, wait and wait again, and not even got at least some virtual pixxel as reward - Sad.

I also tried to solo, rr4l5 + fully sced, ablas, pots, charges + some player skill and open eyes, are enough to kill most of the enemy player if they are solo.
Emain is just a frustating story, to run 15-20 min with realmspeed to emain, to get rolled by a fg, zerg, or an armada of stealther. - Its no fun, really.

Odins/Hadrians i tried couple of times, but after hours not seeing any enemy it gets quite boring too.

So what to do ?

Theres not even any pvm content, if DF is open you can join a df raid only with bm,druid,manament, or ani - if you are lucky an other melee class is accepted. No damn room for caster, even if you were grouped with that ppl couple of times, and sending each other nearly daily.

The second and last pvm option is Taj2. Did you notice how often ppl want to enter Taj 1 / 2 ?

About 2 weeks ago, i started to form a taj1 grp at peaktime, 800 ppl on, it tooks 3 hours to get 7 other ppl, and we had only 1 drui and NO bard !
spamming the whole time the lfg channel.

To get or form a grp for Taj2 is not even a little fun, none wants to join, or you get asked if you know taj2 perfectly to guide the grp. Otherwise it would take to long for the most.

No damn! i was never in there. The most on this server were never in there, but none wants to spend some time (maybe some more time - but who cares, if its fun ?!) to explore some new stuff. Everyone wants to sit on his elitethrone and make something productive in the shortest time possible. It ends in crafting or lvling a toon.
Every 14 days or even longer a rare character like druid or bard with a known name trying to form a taj2 grp. After my response i got told that he will tell when he found other 6 ppl. After hours of lfgchannel spam he gave up. Exactly this situation i saw really a few times.

No Guide who can run through taj with closed eyes in seconds
Not the perfect setup
Not enough rr8+ in grp
Not enough time to clean it, etc etc
Getting RvR / LvL grp in xx min/hours.
Guildie calling, have to help him in bg, fin spot or whatever.

So if you are not with your own community of at least 4-5 ppl on uthgard (RL friends or just Ppl you know online but hear them daily on ts etc) and are not lucky enough to fill a spot in a high rr grp, or another small community of someone else, you are lost. after 4l2 its just Game Over.

I also tried to start with a small baby cakeplan, tried to keep only a few ppl daily together, and filled up with others. To filter some skilled ppl.
But most solo random ppl on hibside are like whores with no homes, jumping around - where the most xp/hour or rps/hour is the best, there they want to be. They dont care if they had some fun with you last time, they spit on you, if they can get a couple more rps. Or a good xp grp like hulks/df for their endless twinks.

To answer the question - Yes, lvl a new Thid toon to get some fun again. And if you are a real tight guy, make some leg. crafter on your x toons.


Sometimes there are 700-800 ppl online 300 on hib side, and you have to write for hours to find a bard or druid. Which maybe leaves then after 1 run or gets hijacked by a better or higher rr grp.

Then you write /who Thid and see about 25 listed + how many anons.

Think iam not angry anymore, just dissapointed on spending that much time on this server for just nothing.

I know lots of ppl on Hibside, even ppl with rr6-8+ Mainchars, which lvling 1 toon after next to play in Thid.
I laughed in rl as i saw last time a guy which had 3 Thidchars, offering which class we need for grp.

Sorry for writing such a long whinetext, its not my way to deal with things. But i dont see any chance to change that situation on my own.[/b][/u]

Should not ban ppl which use buffbots, should ban ppl which NEVER leave bg's.
Ppl which not even thinking to play the endgame.

Well mate, what can I say?

Me and my RL mate were in the exact same situation about a year ago now. We realised the situation was t e r r i b l e for people without a guild or RvR population pool to contact since soloing was a mess just as well (Viper 3 fullbuffed stealthers roaming the place purge vanishing you to death).

There was only one solution that seemed viable to us since any decent RvR guild was either german, or simply too sucky to be called decent.

Yep, we formed our own, very own English speaking fully end RvR focussed guild. It was tough, even though we were lucky to run in some likeminded people in quite a short amount of time. Things didn't go as smooth as expected since the PuG syndrome (people AFKing/leaving for whatever) was hitting us as a guild in the face. However not daily, but over a way larger period of time. We struggled to get every crafter up legendary. We had money problems, we had setup problems, player activity problems, ... anything you can imagine, we've been through it.

Yet it is only since a few months that we managed to get to the part where we can actually build quite regular RvR groups with the right players, even though it can still be really hard. For instance me and my RL mate are now studying for exams and the guild LWRP has seemed to simply die out since the holidays.

End RvR is VERY fragile. Putting it under pressure like that (horrible amount of crafting time required, very serious amount of PvE required, at least basic amount of DAoC knowledge required and simply an insurmountable amount of social resources are required) in combination with the fact that Thid is simply the exact opposite of all this 'hard work' is simply killing it before it ever existed.


Spice things up a bit by involving more players into RvR that are not even supposed to have a chance against the current end RvR violence, but make the danger worth the reward.

I've tried to work out what I believe would be a resurrection of end RvR, and especially classic end RvR compared to this: 'If you do not have spent at least a year on this server to gain the required resources, you will not have fun in OF' kind of situation that is going on right now.



All this inspite Blue's desperate attempt to say "it's fine, we have 200 ppl in RvR". Funny thing is though, those 200+ people only logged on because they could zerg, therefore bypass all the requirements needed on a normal day of RvR.
What's even more astonishing is probably the fact that there's some of the usual FGs, the ACTUAL RvR population, refusing to run out because the zergs have simply absorbed the action they are looking for.

I guess you could say that those 200 is the number you WOULD have on a daily basis in a more healthy RvR situation, which does not require 2 hours to get some action and 1 year of server activity to get the right/enough people to be ready for that action.


PS: I laughed at this one:

Flamestrike wrote:then someone else has to leave coz of monthly bleeding or whatever,

PPS: you might know me as Ifrig/Zyfrig/Glasny, leader of the Vanquish Hibernian RvR guild

I think Emain is killing Emain, not Thid.

I've been RPing in Emain now pretty heavily, and here are my observations:

Nobody plays with any kind of honor whatsoever. Everyone plays with a "if it's red, it's dead" attitude. People camp AMG with 5 stealthers and a healer and they jump on every RR4L2 who came from Thid as if they're so starved for RP that they can't at least give the guy a solo fight with their RR7+ character - instead they hit with all 5.

Who would want to solo with all of that going on? People like to solo in Thid because when they get jumped by 4 people in a smaller space like Thid they actually stand a chance that others will show up and even the odds and they'll get some RP. In Emain you just get steamrolled and /release and you get zero RP for your effort.

Who wants to port out every 8 minutes or make a run across the hib frontier to get to Emain just to be stealth zerged and be an RP donor? Face it: most of the stealth zergs are albs, and they don't have much of a run to get back to zerging solos at AMG.

I play a Shadowblade and I can at least stealth when I see a full group coming to roll me. I can't imagine trying to play a visible under those conditions - every full group who has seen me (with the exception of one group) has jumped on me and killed me every time they could. They even look all over for me when I stealth. They act like a pack of wild dogs, descending upon anything that moves, ravenous for even the tiniest scrap of RP off of any solo who sets foot in Emain.

So here's my suggestion, take it or leave it: Let the solos go find solo fights. Let them have some fun and get some RP and they will want to come out to Emain more. Before long there will be lots of people in Emain, and they will group up to form 8-mans when they see that they've got enough to do it.

Or... keep on zerging everything that moves and people will just roll new characters to play in the BGs where they can have some fun and actually have a chance to find someone else they can win against.

Well that's simply not going to work. We as a guild were always against killing enemies that stood no chance until we realised 90% of those players will just add on your next fight even though you just let them live.

This made us change our way of RvRing so that we are now killing people on sight unless we KNOW they are fair players and will not add or if we simply cant be bothered to spend our time and effort on this or that guy/girl.


However, people will still keep going to Thidranki for 1 simple reason: because they can. We all know why Thidranki is the easier and cheaper form of Emain and we all know why people go there instead of Emain.

The only solution lies in getting more players that are not supposed to stand a chance against the best/higher RR players in Emain to support eachother's presence. This way it WILL be possible to find enemies of your own size without having to fight stealther zergs 24/7.

If you stop the BGs at lvl 35 (and low RR, say 2L5), combine that with a serious increase of OF xp bonusses, spawn quality and timers, AND a very strong increase to the bonus for killing enemy players (x25 for lvls 36+ instead of x10 for everyone) you will make OF (xp) zones very attractive for players far below that RR7 stealthzerg, succesfully populating the 3 zones (since players will try to avoid the most RvR active zone, which is Emain) with those lower level/skill/RR players, which are the perfect targets for solos/duos. AS you can see those xpers will pay a price for the chances of getting great rewards (nice xp without getting killed and a chance to get even nicer xp and rps when managing to kill one of those solos/smallmans).


Now that's just a part of how I would deal with the current issues. You can read the rest in my thread in the English forums (General Section).

TheRat wrote:I think Emain is killing Emain, not Thid.

QFT.

Flamestrike wrote:Round 100 rvr / pvp willing ppl in the same bg.

This is not true. At prime time I see max 50-60 players in Thidranki. Right now (21:35 near peaktime, 45 players in there). That is way less than what we have in OF.

I tell you without Thidranki there will be a HUGE gap between elite players and newcomers in OF. A gap that will kill all fun and make these newcomers quit or start a new char. We've all seen that before. Thidranki is not there without a reason.

Blue wrote:I tell you without Thidranki there will be a HUGE gap between elite players and newcomers in OF. A gap that will kill all fun and make these newcomers quit or start a new char. We've all seen that before. Thidranki is not there without a reason.

You need to count EVERY battleground, not just Thidranki. A lot of players have chars in Braemar and Wilton they are simply getting ready for Thid. And to be really accurate you need to make an inquiry on who is playing where for what reason, but we have enough evidence that BGs are preferred over end RvR by a considerable amount of players. Nitpicking whether or not there are more in BGs than end-RvR is irrelevant since it has nothing to do with the actual issue.


If you simply remove Thidranki without countering that with measures to give players the incentive (even at lvl 36) to actually go out (in mass) and xp/RvR in OF, then yes, then there WILL be such a gap.

It sounds as if you want one to be there simply because you do not want to change or improve things.

Currently Thidranki not only absorbs potential end RvR players, it also sets a standard norm for those players. Entering OF with anything under level 50 or RR4 is a deathtrap simply because it is known that you should get higher than that before you run out, which is why it is so hard even for those players, let alone for players below that standard. This simply fact lies at the root of the amount of 'unbeatable' enemy forces whether it be rr9s or rr4 stealthzergs.

If you find a way to attract a completely fresh influx of players into OF which are not even 'supposed' to be able to compete (unlike currently where everyone is 'supposed' to be able to compete since they had the opportunity to get 4L2, SCed and 50 easily), then you will not only succesfully and heavily increase the OF population, you will also provide a lot more freedom in playstyle and character state than there is now, which is the only way to solve this problem in a profound manner.


As long as everyone's supposed to be maxed out because it's possible, nothing will change. The moment you remove that possibility and combine it with incentives for players to go out there and hunt (xps or rps) you will get a way more open and healthy RvR/OF population.

That's how it was and worked on live, that's how it can work here, you just have to be open for it, which apparently you aren't for some reason.

Zarkor wrote:Currently Thidranki not only absorbs potential end RvR players, it also sets a standard norm for those players. Entering OF with anything under level 50 or RR4 is a deathtrap simply because it is known that you should get higher than that before you run out

So you think it would be better to enter OF with RR2? You think that nobody knows that this propably leads to instant death? Trust me I know exactly how it was before the Thidranki caps were raised to Level 49 and RR4+. If you like search the forum for posts at that time.

Not Thidranki is the problem, the gap that will be there when Thidranki does not fill it IS the problem. Raising caps in Thidranki helped 50 RvR a lot because it was a smooth transition then.

Blue wrote:So you think it would be better to enter OF with RR2? You think that nobody knows that this propably leads to instant death?

Quote for truth. This is exactly how Caledonia (the final BG) was back in the OF days. Players got dumed into the frontier at level 50 and RR2. That was truly awful and I'd hate to go back to that sort of thing. My first year of DAoC I avoided going into the frontier a lot simply because there were so many high RRs in there and it was nearly impossible for me to kill anyone.

And, no offense intended Zarkor, but you've indicated that you'll just zerg any solo you see with a full group. Why do you think they're adding on your group? I know that when I get zerged by a group I jump their cleric every chance I get, just to make sure our group wins.

You, at least, have given every indication that you have no intention of changing the atmosphere of Emain. It's only my opinion, of course, but until that atmosphere changes expect most people to play until they're kicked out of Thid and roll something else, or quit playing on Uthgard entirely.

You say you want fresh meat in Emain, but are unwilling to bend on a policy (and it's not just you, it's most groups) that makes Emain very inhospitable for solos. Thid can still be fun for them, so that's where they'll stay.

I agree with you 100% Blue that Thid removal is not the answer.

But please realize that OF has to be customized in some way, at least to help soloers.

We have nothing to log in for now, people are either in Thid or have left, it simply takes too much time to do anything in OF if you are solo. The staff has to give us something, anything, because right now there isn't really any incentive to play as a solo on Uthgard.

Nymeros wrote: because right now there isn't really any incentive to play as a solo on Uthgard.

Perhaps if all charges and pots were removed, then we would go solo more...

/sarcasm mode off

TheRat wrote:You, at least, have given every indication that you have no intention of changing the atmosphere of Emain. It's only my opinion, of course, but until that atmosphere changes expect most people to play until they're kicked out of Thid and roll something else, or quit playing on Uthgard entirely.

You say you want fresh meat in Emain, but are unwilling to bend on a policy (and it's not just you, it's most groups) that makes Emain very inhospitable for solos. Thid can still be fun for them, so that's where they'll stay.

What?! Like I said, we had EVERY intention of changing the atmosphere in end RvR. We started out with the concept of non-adding, not killing soloers and even smallmans and did so for quite some time. Eventually it was the already in place mindset that forced us to stop trying to change it and join the mindless no honor form of RvR simply to save our own ass from getting added and losing fights because of it.

That's the entire point, nobody will change the attitude if there isn't a consensus within the entire community simply because being the sole enforcer of this attitude only works in your own disadvantage, which will make your patience end soon enough. There's simply too many players around that refuse any form of honor in their fights whatsoever to make this work.

I was once as idealistic as you, but I know better now, sadly... However I NEVER stated I was unwilling to bend my policy (fyi, we still do not add on groups that don't add on us and still do not add on fair fights), but that just isn't likely to happen if we're the only ones to do so, especially since 75%+ of the stealthers simply adds regardless of who you are or what you do.


Oh and by the way, I play a VISIBLE solo char from time to time, IN EMAIN. Yes, it sucks terribly and yes, it's F*CKING frustrating, but so is waiting in an empty Odin's Gate...

Blue wrote:So you think it would be better to enter OF with RR2? You think that nobody knows that this propably leads to instant death? Trust me I know exactly how it was before the Thidranki caps were raised to Level 49 and RR4+. If you like search the forum for posts at that time.

Not Thidranki is the problem, the gap that will be there when Thidranki does not fill it IS the problem. Raising caps in Thidranki helped 50 RvR a lot because it was a smooth transition then.

Well, for one the RvR zone you had back then is not in any way what we have now. Old Frontiers allows for a various amount of playstyles to co-exist without ruining the action for all of those playstyles as long as you have enough players to support that.

The RR2L5 players should not be just dropped in Emain as it is now at level 50 without any chance of reaching at least RR3+.

Clearly, you have not read through all my OF/RvR suggestions since you manage to seperate aspects of it which of course do not function on their own. And especially since I explicitely put your reaction in my post even before you said so... ("Now before you start shouting "zomg such low RR how will we ever be able to compete?!?" there's a few more things this would imply.") You either look at the full package, or you don't. If you do look at the seperate aspects without seeing them in their context, you will create a biased view on the full pontential.



Let me just quote myself here then for you....

Zarkor wrote:(3. Implement a reworked version of the Old RA system. To improve balance further for Uthgard's setting, the full Old RA system is a great backbone to start with. However, you can't afford to copy/paste Mythic's mistakes here. Old RAs should be customised to balance in the following way:
- Add NF Determination (cost/value) for hybrid classes (the ones that get det in NF)
- Keep the scaling on passives since it helps low RRs more than high RRs. (14 or 3 pts into it will give the same gain)
- Stay 1.80. Going back does not make things THAT bad, but there's no reason not to stay at 1.80 since every change made since then is only helping to balance classic DAoC more.
This tweaking should be further evaluated for imbalances and room for improvement should always be there. Hitting Old RAs on the 'balanced' spot right from step 1 seems rather unlikely. Again, it's a tough nut to crack, but definately worthwhile in the long term.
Here is a link to old RAs.)

IIb. RvR:
1. Rework BGs. In order to put DAoC as a game more into it's essence (end-game), a reforming of the BGs is definately necessary. Currently (as discussed recently) BGs offer a cheap alternative to the end-RvR and are perfectly viable as if it were a lvl 50 BG. When reworking the BGs, also going to a more classic state is recommended since it fits the goal of the reforms. The new (classic OF) BGs would be the following:

Thidranki lv20-24 [1L5]
Murdaigean lv25-29 [2L0]
Caledonia lv30-35 [2L5]

Now before you start shouting "zomg such low RR how will we ever be able to compete?!?" there's a few more things this would imply.
- Increase in OF xp bonusses and spawns. (explained later)
- Increase in XP gain from killing enemy players to x25 (yes, this much) for players at lvl 36+ . Currently set to x10 for everyone.
- Increase RP gain for players above level 36 (75% for RR2, 50% for RR3, 25% for RR4).

This would mean a huge benefit from killing players at lvl 36 - 50 under RR5. Even without the RP gain increase, they will recieve an immense amount of XP, making it very attractive for them to actually join in RvR regardless of level and RR or simply to go xp in hostile zones since killing someone that wants to kill you will be greatly rewarded, even though getting killed still hurts.

This all will lead to players from lvl 36+ (green to 50 at 36) to actually be more related and attracted to end RvR. This is what classic used to be like and imo what classic DAoC is all about: end RvR, even though you don't have all the goodies you'd want. These bonusses will give an incentive to take the risk in order to get a taste of the reward, since it tastes so good. Not to mention this new involvement of lower level players will not only spice up end RvR in player numbers, it will also give those non-50s a chance to get some RR (and fun!) before focussing solely on RvR at 50.

In combination with the crafting boost, leveling and competing in end RvR should also be less of a hassle than it is now.
Also, before I forget: players who will still intend to stick to BG RvR only can still do this from level 20-35. End-RvR should not bear the negative consequences of the misconception of DAoC RvR like it is now.

1. Rework OF. There's a few changes to be made in OF to optimize it to Uthgard's player base, however reworking BGs will also affect the RvR and XP population a lot already. Here's a list of changes that help guiding the reworking of BGs in the good direction aswell as improving RvR in general:
*[XP]:
- Increase XP bonusses: 20% in tertiary zones, 30% in secondary zones, 40% in primary zones and 50% behind enemy milegates instead of the current implementation of bonusses. This way, fighting in OF for both rps and xp will be both as dangerous and rewarding as it should be. Since you can use campfires in DF, it won't die out. Also because it's also an RvR dungeon and has better loot than OF.
- Add mobs so spawns in general have 20-30 mobs instead of the current 5-15.
- Lower respawn time to 2/3rd of what it is now (also in mainlands).
*[RvR]:
- Lower the porting timers to 5 minutes.
- Implement horse routes to the primary zone entrances in each main land zone to counter the lower porting time.
- Implement a BP bonus for solos/smallmans in Odin's Gate on primetime and Emain Macha on off-peak hours.
- Implement a realm wide message when a keep is under attack. Details about the attack will only be notified to the guild who has claimed the keep.
- Implement the proper guard system for relic keeps.
- Spice up keeptakes and defends: Add keep taking tasks explained below:
Tasks will require you to take a random keep within 1 hour, starting when you've hit the keepgate or enter the keep environment. Rewards for a succesful keeptake will be 1500rps + 50 extra rps per kill made within that hour within the keep environment (extra rps will be added to the 1500rps upon killing the lord, if the task fails, the extra rps are not given).

Defending keeps should be rewarded similarly, without a task. Killing enemy players within the direct keep environment will grant an 50 rps bonus per kill for grped members and 250 rps per kill bonus for solo players. Repairing keep doors should be rewarded with something like 150 rps per 20%. Bonusses will be granted after interacting with the keep lord so that extra RPs are only rewarded for succesful defends.

Extra: Guildmembers of the guild that has claimed the keep will get 2x defense bonusses. This will actually make people claim and defend with an incentive.

The entire package in combination with OF makes it possible for those lvl 36 2L5 players to improve both their level as realm level entirely in OF, especially with the increase in RP gain for RR2-3 and 4 above lvl 36, the keeptake missions and the fact that there will be alot of like minded xpers/lowby RvR players from the enemy realms, all competing for the best (best mobs, lowest chance on getting inc from high level/RR players) spots since DF will not be the only place to level anymore if you combine the chances of getting x25 xp for a higher level player and about a 30-50% xp bonus even though you can't use campfires like you can in DF.

I hope this has shed some light on how this could work. Simply removing Thidranki and telling players to 'go xp in OF' to solve it will not work of course, just like telling players to 'go solo in Odin's Gate' does not help to solve the solo/smallman RvR problem.


Now I'm not telling you this is the only possible solution, but it's so far pretty much the best solution so far to most of the problems OF and end RvR are currently facing and definately worth trying out.



After all, what do we have to lose? More players going to BGs? Unlikely. Less players to go to end RvR? Unlikely. People leaving the server because it's completely messed up? Quite the opposite... And all this definately goes for my entire list of suggestions, especially things like the crafting speed increase.

zarkor with all due respect for what you and your mates have accomplished;

unless the "elite" get back down to earth far enough and have pity on those that arent where you are yet and run WITH them, nothing would change, no matter how attractive you make OF and how hard you punish the BG players.

even with removing ALL bgs, increasing the exp rate by 10 from lvl 1 to 50 and giving free RR5 - it still wouldnt really change anything.
yes, you might get a couple more players out there - with no expierence thought - and you may have 5 instead of 2 fgs running about - the overall situation would be just the same.

the inexpierenced freshmens will run around and get steamrolled by the SGs and zergs.

and if they dont quit, they try to follow groups like yours arround - and you dont go for that kind of gameplay. you know, where one realm fields more then 8 players in a fight.


we HAVE enough lvl 50 rvr chars. that is NOT the issue.

i bet you anything that at least - bare minimum - half the players at primetime COULD go for 50 rvr. but choose not to for various reasons.

i put a lot of time and effort into my valewalker and absolutly loved it from lvl 5 upwards - and all the way to 50.
i had a blast with it when it was 49.9.
then it got 50 - with 2l1 due to low activitys in bgs during that time.

i had ONE good run in 50 rvr with it. ONE!
one night with a good medium rr group, 5 hours, i jumped from 2L1 to 3L6.
that night i was soooooooo happy with my vale, you cant imagine.
pure carnage and not the least bit slowed down by anything aside from specced singlemezz, that made me stand and watch for about 15 seconds.

and gues what. its 3L7 now. every time there is need for DPS i drop everything im doing and answer to that. "sorry now vale, no stoism"
"sorry no, you stand in CC all the time", "your RR7? no? then no."
"whats the name? saveth? *looking it up in the herald* sorry slot already filled; /lfg looking for dps"
over and over again.


ok, screw it then, so much for my beloved and extremly powerful vale.

somethign more looked after.
i had 5 blademasters on live, so im not doing another.
we always had 1-3 heros on live, so i roll one of them. only had 2 so far.

so i rolled my hero, not so much fun as the vale, but strong defense, though and pure evil with the spear.

i sticked in the bgs a while longer to get the minimum requirements for lvl 50 heros.

once i got them, i joined the final ranks.

i think i made about 2 rl since then.

not that i havent been playing.
there are just a couple litte differences i failed to realize before hand:

live - tank of choice = hero. 1 bm per group max. if at all.
uthgard - tank of choice = BM. 1 hero per group max. if at all.

live - got the basic ras, get in and split some skulls.
uthgard - got connections? no? well then. see you later.

live - hey the albs run with 4fgs and the mid with 3fgs. how about we join up our 3fgs to stand a chance?
answer: i was just thinking that^^ BG ON ME! lets go get em boys! hib hib hurray!

uthgard - hey the albs run with 4fgs and the mid with 3fgs. how about we join up our 3fgs to stand a chance?
answer: nope. no way. not if hell freezes over and santa relocates there because it has more ice then the north pole. well maybe in a few hours. when we wiped a dozend times. if we cant kill at least 1 grouped enemy in the next 4 hours, then we add. ok? good. later then.
4 hours later: "wanna join up?" - about damn time. 10 minutes later after steamrolling a sb, 2 scouts and 3 infis (they had a picknick) - well looks dead to me, lets split up. a minute later: "dude we just got overrun by DG zerg. we call it a day. bye."


live - your lvl 50? yup. got sc? yup. come on in.

uthgard - do you have: det4+, mop2+, mob3+, purge2+, sb1+ and dd1+?
no? well sorry, we cant take you without at least that^^ dude, thats RR7! - i know. thats the minimum for hero. sry. good luck finding a group though. how about you roll a BM? or better yet, roll a bard. just needs sos as minimum. even if he sucks. we need bards.


/lfg hero lfg rvr.
/lfg hero det4 lfg rvr
/lfg shar hero det4, mob2, mop2, sc, 50+11+rr shield/cs with 5.7spd mp spear, endu/hp/hpreg/base/spec/etc potions offering 500g per hour for a frigging rvr group!
..
..
..
/b any action in OF?
ranger sended you: T O N S ! crazy out here - you should come!
..
/lfg hero needed anywhere?
fingroup leader invites you to his group!
..
..

/quit


and THAT aint gonna change anytime soon.

its all about mentality.

the aversion towards zergs is just so extreme in hib around here that even a fg with a single bard tailing them is considered adding and deserves to get stoned to death^^

even if the enemy runs with a 4 and a 5 group its announced in /b as ZERG!

i mean common, go play some goddamn starcraft and learn what that even means!




EDIT:
on and about that lvl 36 are more likely to go OF with those chances etc:
did you miss out on arga?

if you really make good use of a topnotch spot in a frontier, there is NO way to survive even a single lvl 50 char that adds while you pull. you are too busy keeping those 5 purple (instead of 3[live]) in check to even notice that you got someone behind you killing of your supps with 1-2 hits each^^

i hit a player below 40 only once per fight and a viper 3 PA hurts even more - what do you think a rr6+ assasin will do to a exp group? the same it did in agramon - get rp for 4 of them and have the rest suffer xp death^^
agramon was a place to level for people with no basic logical sense.
or those who could count on a friendly raoming group to keep an eye out for them.

the argument that OF is far bigger and your less likely to be found doesnt count either. once you learn the spots checking up on them is following a simple path since the spawn dont wander, hence easy rp.

while the additional RP gain for lower RRs is a good idea in itself, it and all the other things you listed wont change the players attitude - just as the other 4000 proposals i heard/read over the years.

the only thing that really and always works is sticking together as a realm.
and on THAT part nothing the staff can do will have any impact on the problem.
at least not anything that wouldnt screw one of the involved parties over big time.

Zarkor, I think you overestimate the BG's. I give you some numbers from just now (00:40 german time), => 125/24/11/27/72

The last one is DF. The rest you can figure out yourself.