panachier wrote:

tvpro wrote:Albion is weakest realm at the moment. To win with albion group you need very good players. Even when i played with best groups - we still loose to lower rr pugs. why? Because the RA that made albion good have also been given to hib and mids. Albs NEED these RAs unique to them otherwise we might just see ourselves as free rps. No point to play my alb char again until we have old ra.

there are people that never learn from error...

NF is a crap, everybody (but some forum whiner) knew it. Some of us did decent post about why it shouldn't come. staff leaders didn't listen and were proud to propose a "Classic server" but have no idea about DAoC fonctionnement. Now it's there, the problems are there too... enjoy with it.

bringing old RA won't be a solution but another problem. I know lot of work has been done for Old Frontier, and it's hard to recognize you did crap and delete month of work. As architect i know this feeling, it's hard to do and you try to patch your work to do it a bit less crappy.

Few month ( years) ago deleting port camp in agra killed the RvR, and killed our guild cause nothing left to do in game. Since OF is released i already see the effect... no more RvR, reroll other twink, test other realm, but certainly not enjoy lvl 50 RvR

But on another point of view, it's the begining, people zerg cause of that, maybe soon the situation will be better... but area will always be to large, porting time sucky, necklace useless, and to much keeps...

bring us back new emain

PS:

Der_Eisbaer wrote:
The game is RvR, that means REALM versus REALM.

football world cup doesn't mean that everybody in the world can join the match

Old ra will balance the game almost perfectly, the problem is only for scout, ranger and those useless class called archers...

Holavez

problem simply really is not of .. its cool it looks much better..
and big hug for staff that they did it for us!

but tell people how to use it..
come to hadrians or odins for smaller fights or 1on1

u would not come.. its us stupid hibs.. we need to come out run like 10min to feed u ..
nice that first 4 hours hibernia totally got pwned.. no relic more..
why its hib .. why u dont go out to midgard or albion strange..

i was allrdy on svasud or sauvage people saw me come out got killed then left me and ported again to emain.. QQ motivation zero...

just logged shammy to aoe dot in emain lol

if any people could cry now its hibs.. but hibs would not cry like they would never zerg lol

clap for every hib that not stealthed to emain and have fun with it =)
u should hug them its our flowers that u stomp there =))

but of rocks really xD

lots of nice 8vs8 action yesterday, today only zerg+add, even from half decent 8man grps - the zone is awesome and nostalgic.

the lags didn't improve as much as hoped for though.

- [A]Zub
p.s.: we took the liberty of robbing ur relics, since u didn't stop zerging+adding all day

zubasa wrote:lots of nice 8vs8 action yesterday, today only zerg+add, even from half decent 8man grps - the zone is awesome and nostalgic.

the lags didn't improve as much as hoped for though.

- [A]Zub
p.s.: we took the liberty of robbing ur relics, since u didn't stop zerging+adding all day

Yes cause Midgard is such an honourable realm. Whatever you want to believe!

panachier wrote:

Der_Eisbaer wrote:
The game is RvR, that means REALM versus REALM.

football world cup doesn't mean that everybody in the world can join the match

Luckily for you there are enough bad players like yourself on uthgard so you have something to compete against.

zubasa wrote:lots of nice 8vs8 action yesterday, today only zerg+add, even from half decent 8man grps - the zone is awesome and nostalgic.

the lags didn't improve as much as hoped for though.

- [A]Zub
p.s.: we took the liberty of robbing ur relics, since u didn't stop zerging+adding all day

wow what a hypocrit, like an hour before you wrote this you added our group fighting an alb group behind amg at emain.

not really boba, we ran for hours 8vsX - got zerged+added casually by almost every group, so we started counter zerg, we'll see which zerg will be stronger when you want this to be the uthgard rvr culture

panachier wrote:Few month ( years) ago deleting port camp in agra killed the RvR

Agreed. And now the whole server will love the ~8min(?) port times?

Anyway. I love of maps etc. But i dislike the size of the new Zone(s) and the porttimes. On live we had to OF times 2000ppl. Maybe 500+ of them we're in RvR. I cant proof it, but think about, here i saw around MAX 50 Mids in OF zones and i dont know how many ppl of the other realms are into of 700ppl population.

Just my 2 cents. Think about it.

BTW respect to the Staff's work, you did a very nice work!

Razzer wrote:Crying for OF!
OF is coming...
Complaining about OF!
I hate such people...

I expected it would come this way ^^



Well for solos the rvr in Uthgard is over. I knew it would be this way

zubasa wrote:not really boba, we ran for hours 8vsX - got zerged+added casually by almost every group, so we started counter zerg, we'll see which zerg will be stronger when you want this to be the uthgard rvr culture

No one minds that you zerg/add etc thats your choice, but dont try taking the high road calling others names like "adder" etc when you do it yourself.

Lintu wrote:
Well for solos the rvr in Uthgard is over. I knew it would be this way

And thats a damn fact ! I forgot to add this into my post.

I rly like OF.

Maybe RvR Zone is little bit to big atm - but I would like to see how the rvr develops in the future before change something.

Maybe a little reduction of the port timer wouldn´t be that bad.


But All in all amazing work.

Albs and Hibs, stop complaining about zerging. Earlier me and my group went emain, we were rolled by 2 fg hibs , then 2 fg albs, then hibs and albs. Then i quit. Its not like only mids zerging and u know it. When you zerg you dont come and post about it. This should be about OF not about zerging.

lol how boring is this thread now ...
nice comment about a new war map btw - would be nice.

Okay, let me say this: OF is so goddamn awesome I can't believe it, had some really nice fights a few times, even though we won far from all of them. It's just a ton of fun to be able to fight here again and especially on this server. THANK YOU A THOUSAND TIMES, STAFF, AWESOME JOB!

The reason we (RvR players) are bringing up all this is because we actually feel and experience your job on OF and OF in general on Uthgard. This NOT a rant or a whine, this is FEEDBACK about the change a lot of us wanted and are now trying to enjoy the most.

As long as RvR is a fun, entertaining and enjoyable way of spending time, Uthgard will be alive and kicking its way up to the 1000 player peak.

Some finetuning in the current setting would create a much more playerfriendly environment and I think the people who actively play and therefore also witness the good and bad sides day in day out, are probably the most valuable source of feedback you can have about your work.
This is why I would like to ask you, the staff, with all the respect, to listen to what we (I in this case) have to say, from which we think we could all benefit.


Finally I would like to mention that I am trying to give feedback applyable to everyone, soloers, stealthers, smallman, FGs and hell, even zergs.




So, here goes:

1.The timers:
[Feedback]: [ - ] I think a lot of us who have actively experienced OF for about a day now (to be honest I think I have spent more than 10 hours in OF since it was released) will agree with me when I say the timers are not short enough to be really enjoyable for anyone. Only on primetime there is enough action to not have to either wait for enemies or wait for the porter, also, porting back to the city and housing is rather unpleasantly eating away your spare time, which you try to enjoy the most.

[Suggested solutions]: Reduce the timer to 5 minutes.

[Argumentation to the solution]: It creates a very real amount of demotivation to RvR because the zones are also so big, it is not evident to find fights and action even after you reached your destination, especially during off-peak hours. I can only hope this won't be ignored, even though we already have a timer that's half of what it was.

The population of Uthgard is even less than half what live was back in the days when OF was the main RvR map. I think this is a hugely important factor in the feedback and should definately not be ignored. Uthgard and its population make the game, the size of this population is thus also heavily affecting gameplay. This is also the cause of why this implementation is not optimal for Uthgard.

Because the active RvR community is so much smaller, I think it would be wise to at least try and optimise the conditions to try and keep the community healthy and flourishing. It would be sad if OF would have a negative impact because of this.


2. Homeland and smallman/solo travelling:
[Feedback]: [ + ] Travelling from the home keep to the enemy's portal keeps with speed 5 or 6 is definately fine. The run is not too long and not too short, definately since it is still an RvR zone and there can always be action right where you are running.

[ - ] Travelling (from the home keep) as a non-speeder class, or not being grouped with one is a different story. Even though there are hasteners, it still is a long and rather boring journey to your destination. There's hardly any possible enemy around because most of your targets would not even have hastener speed and just do not make it much further than the zoneborder of the zone after the one the ported in.

This is another demotivating factor which deserves a solution. It is also again caused by the lack of RvR population compared to the old live population, for which this map and system was created.

[Suggested solutions] A) Implement a horse route from the main border keep. The horse will drive you at normal non-personal horse speed trough the frontier, following the roads that are there. This horse will drop you off a at a keep near the zone where the enemy teleport keeps are located.

In order to prevent this horse route from locking down the RvR between the drop-off point and the enemy portal keeps, horses should drop their players once they are attacked.

B) Reduce the costprice for RvR horses drastically. (RR5 horse 5 platinum instead of 15, RR10 horse 15 platinum instead of 30) These horses are really vital to creating a healthy player circulation, also within the portal keep zones. Remember, each portal keep zone on itself is still larger than Agramon and so is the difference between the MGs and the portal keeps.

Once your hastener speed fades as a class or grp without any speed, it becomes highly unrewarding to move away from an MG, which eventually packs them too tightly and almost eliminates solo RvR possibilities for visible characters, whicb also leads to less targets for the stealthers.

These horses would effectively improve the small-man and solo RvR experience by giving them more freedom and possibilities, which leads to more variation, fun and action.

[Argumentation to the solution] A) This will create a new, faster and more exciting method of getting into the action zone for non-speeder grps and soloers. It would be slower and more dangerous than running with speed 5 or 6 in a straight line, but it would still be an attractive way to get into RvR since it is still faster than running.
Not to mention it will create a main route for smallman groups or soloers since they have more chance of meeting enemies of their own size than meeting a full group on horseback. In other words, this would concentrate and slightly separate the smallman action a bit in the zones that are otherwise too big to really roam trough with this RvR population.

In addition, this will make it possible also for players without speed 5 or 6 to get into the actual action zone in a timespan of 5-6 minutes if you are not attacked. Of course if you are attacked, you are on the right spot anyway since you have found enemies, or they have found you. This is faster than on foot, but slower than speed 5 in a straight line, which creates a perfect inbetween that's usable and comfortable for smallman and solos.

Finally, horse routes probably are the most classic solution possible

B) I have explained above why the horses would be a good improvement to smallman RvR and thus the RvR population in general.

The argument to lower the prices would be the following: the only place where they are really rewarding is in the RvR zones. However, the players that actually really RvR actively usually are not that rich. Most of the money they make go either into recharging, re-speccing, re-templating, helping others, alts, guilds, crafting, ... 15 platinum for a horse is just not worth spending a week ONLY farming money in PvE, for a casual RvR player it would probably a lot more than a week.

It is just not reasonable to be forced to do things that are extremely demotivating because of the extreme effort and time requiring situation. This to make it only a tiny bit better and more fun while you are actually RvRing. Originally, drawing more players to the RvR zone because of the quest was an argument to put the quest in the RvR zone, however if the horse itself costs 15 or 30 plat, these two hours of questing in the RvR zone will require a LOT more hours Outside the RvR zone to actually complete the quest. At the moment, getting a horse is just too demanding for what it really is, however it does make RvR a lot more enjoyable for the smallmans and soloers.


3. Recharge costs:
[Feedback]: [ - ] I should mention that this only applies to smallman and solo RvR.

So, because of the significant increase in actual RvR zone, the time needed to travel trough and find action has also increased significantly. Fullgroups and zergs barely have issues with this since they do not have to keep that many charges up to be ready for battle and stand a chance against possibly full buffed oponents who do have a main supporter in their smallman/duo.

[Suggested solutions]: A reset of these costs to the former 70 BP per major recharge stones and a similar treatment to other stone prices would definately improve the balance in smallman and solo RvR, not to mention that improved balance will also lead to more fun and thus a more healthy RvR community.

[Argumentation to the solution]: As I've explained above, OF hasn't exactly made smallman and solo RvR more attractive or easy. The larger size also implies that keeping up your basic charges will cost a lot more than they are worth. Currently, keeping your charges up troughout the possible action zone has such a high cost that in the near future, more and more players and smallgrps won't be able to compete with smallgrps and duos with a buffing class. This will only make going out without one too demotivating for a server with Uthgard's number of RvR players, especially during low-peak hours since it can become really hard to find a grpable main support at that time. Leaving this as it is will only prevent players from even trying to go out without a buffing class more and more, which would decrease the overall RvR population even more at low-peak hours.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That's basicly what I had in mind and what I have discussed with other RvR players. I hope you will take the time to read through and consider my suggestions and the argumentations.

Any remarks are welcome.


I'm going to sleep now, I've been working for over 2 hours on this post and it's now 6am. Good night.

Edit: PS, the recent changes to OF (more notification range etc) are already a great step in the good direction. Thanks a lot for those!

Its no longer fast food RvR, its the old way RvR.
I have nothing to complain about, the game feels very classic now and i LOVE it


A few things i thought (not complaining) about are:

- I would love to see old RAs

- I would love to see the old Frontier Dungeons

- Sadly there are some very high (RR10 and RR11) people, who mado most of the RPs when it was fast food RvR and now its harder for new people to get a high RR, but we will have to live with that, because we cannot just wipe the RRs.